Just got a 1984 RCA VJM2023S (CTC-121) chassis

[waltchan]

Interesting stuff on the 90s RCAs, but I don't really care. Anything made after 1990, as well as all other electronic makers besides RCA, is considered to be cheaply made, and most will not exceed 20 years. 1980s-made all the way. Looks like 1983-1984 might be the highest peak quality year for RCA. Now, my only trouble is, what VCR should I put for my CTC-121 TV? Should I put in a Panasonic-made 1982 top-loading RCA VGT650 4-head Dolby stereo or Hitachi-made 1983 RCA VJT700 4-head Dolby stereo? I am determining right now which of the two Japanese makers could make a VCR for me that can run for another 60 years from today (excluding belt changes) until I die. Hmm, Panasonic or Hitachi? Each has its own pros and cons. Would you go for Panasonic or Hitachi?

RCA VKT650 is a really bad VCR in terms of design, and it is definitely not worth repairing (IMO) when it first breaks. I collected more than 25 top-of-the-line vintage Hi-Fi VHS VCRs, and the RCA VKT650 is the most disappointing I have seen. It uses a lot of surface-mount capacitors on the video board, which is completely unacceptable to put on in 1984, but what's 10 times worse, the board was sealed with black covering hard glue all over around, and all technicians I spoke with will not service this board. They would need to order a new board. Oh wait, didn't they just tell me that the board is no longer available. This VCR is now toast, I have no more video, no more beloved tapes I can play, and it ends up being a boat anchor, thanks to Hitachi's stupidity. I forgot to mention this in my original post, but the VCR is not actually working. There are vertical invisible white bars and fuzzy marks all over on the screen (no, it is not the video head), and sometimes it is hard to see the text. I suspect the problem is at the video board. Does anyone know if the VJT700 used any surface-mount caps? I don't know about the VJT700, but I know for sure that VGT650 (Panasonic PV-1780 equivalent) does not use any surface-mount caps.

Please help me choose my VCR. I don't want to throw out my CTC-121 just because I can't find the proper, matching VCR for this TV. I was born in 1984, so the TV has to be made in 1984, and no other year can be considered. Originally, I wanted a Panasonic 27" stereo to match with my PV-1730 VCR, but the TV has pretty much been vanished in people's home today and is impossible to find one used. Next I considered was a Sharp 25" stereo Linytron to match with my VC-489U VCR, but it's like Panasonic similar and has already been vanished. Next I looked at Hitachi, but neither the TV nor VCR still exists in people's home today. VCR is VT-88A, and you don't know how many times I get the same e-mail from sellers, "Sorry, I threw it out a long time ago because it broke. I only have the remote and manual left." Then I looked at Mitsubishi, and I was able to find one, but I passed because I was told by Frank in Studio Sound electronics (diyvcrparts.com) that their 1984 VCRs were super bad and buggy. Then I looked at Zenith, but JVC didn't make a 4-head Hi-Fi VCR for Zenith, and one of the idler tires is no longer available, according to Frank. Finally, I ended up with this RCA TV and bought it home happily assuming that 1984 Hitachi VCRs were built like a tank and can run forever. Surprisingly, it does not apply to the VKT650. I didn't look at NEC, Sanyo, Sony, and Toshiba because they only made Beta VCRs.

[Blast]

Originally Posted by waltchan

Anything made after 1990, as well as all other electronic makers besides RCA, is considered to be cheaply made, and most will not exceed 20 years. 1980s-made all the way. Looks like 1983-1984 might be the highest peak quality year for RCA. Now, my only trouble is, what VCR should I put for my CTC-121 TV? Should I put in a Panasonic-made 1982 top-loading RCA VGT650 4-head Dolby stereo or Hitachi-made 1983 RCA VJT700 4-head Dolby stereo? I am determining right now which of the two Japanese makers could make a VCR for me that can run for another 60 years from today (excluding belt changes) until I die. Hmm, Panasonic or Hitachi? Each has its own pros and cons. Would you go for Panasonic or Hitachi?

RCA VKT650 is a really bad VCR in terms of design, and it is definitely not worth repairing (IMO) when it first breaks. I collected more than 25 top-of-the-line vintage Hi-Fi VHS VCRs, and the RCA VKT650 is the most disappointing I have seen. It uses a lot of surface-mount capacitors on the video board, which is completely unacceptable to put on in 1984, but what's 10 times worse, the board was sealed with black covering hard glue all over around, and all technicians I spoke with will not service this board. They would need to order a new board. Oh wait, didn't they just tell me that the board is no longer available. This VCR is now toast, I have no more video, no more beloved tapes I can play, and it ends up being a boat anchor, thanks to Hitachi's stupidity. I forgot to mention this in my original post, but the VCR is not actually working. There are vertical invisible white bars and fuzzy marks all over on the screen (no, it is not the video head), and sometimes it is hard to see the text. I suspect the problem is at the video board. Does anyone know if the VJT700 used any surface-mount caps? I don't know about the VJT700, but I know for sure that VGT650 (Panasonic PV-1780 equivalent) does not use any surface-mount caps.

Please help me choose my VCR. I don't want to throw out my CTC-121 just because I can't find the proper, matching VCR for this TV. I was born in 1984, so the TV has to be made in 1984, and no other year can be considered. Originally, I wanted a Panasonic 27" stereo to match with my PV-1730 VCR, but the TV has pretty much been vanished in people's home today and is impossible to find one used. Next I considered was a Sharp 25" stereo Linytron to match with my VC-489U VCR, but it's like Panasonic similar and has already been vanished. Next I looked at Hitachi, but neither the TV nor VCR still exists in people's home today. VCR is VT-88A, and you don't know how many times I get the same e-mail from sellers, "Sorry, I threw it out a long time ago because it broke. I only have the remote and manual left." Then I looked at Mitsubishi, and I was able to find one, but I passed because I was told by Frank in Studio Sound electronics (diyvcrparts.com) that their 1984 VCRs were super bad and buggy. Then I looked at Zenith, but JVC didn't make a 4-head Hi-Fi VCR for Zenith, and one of the idler tires is no longer available, according to Frank. Finally, I ended up with this RCA TV and bought it home happily assuming that 1984 Hitachi VCRs were built like a tank and can run forever. Surprisingly, it does not apply to the VKT650. I didn't look at NEC, Sanyo, Sony, and Toshiba because they only made Beta VCRs.

I don't know if I'd lay any money on your 20 year statement, or not. Although 20 years is beyond the life expectancy of consumer electronics, many pieces continue to work past that time given proper care and service. Not to mention just plain ol' LUCK... Just remember- I was throwing out VCR's just barely out of warranty because an owner didn't want to pay the repair charges to have it fixed- BIG TIME FAILURES which occurred within a couple of years of manufacture! VCR's die everyday of the week...

In regards to your question about which VCR, you're not dealing with NEW ONES you can compare in a dealer's showroom anymore. Within your own criteria of '80's-built units you're dealing with what's available NOW that still works. I'd use the one that worked the best no matter WHO it was made by. Make sure it records tapes that can be played back on several other VCR's so that you know it's not recording "out of spec". In other words tapes made on one machine should play back on a handful of other machines with the tracking control set in about the mid position. Hitachi and Panasonic each had their own ideas about "standards". Walt- nothing "runs forever". If you are counting on this you will be sadly disappointed. I'd take what you get that's running right now, take care of it and be ready for disappointment at any time. You talk down about the '90's but keep in mind anything built in the '80's is just "cheaply made" relative to the SEVENTIES. "Cheaply made" and how well it lasts are two different things!

Why can you no longer playback tapes because one VCR no longer functions? Was the tape recorded so far out of spec that the out-of-spec machine is the only one that will play it properly? If so, an alignment is in order- don't record anymore "out of spec" tapes until it is repaired.

In regards to the lines in your playback picture there were a few models of VCR's made in that time frame that used head switching relays instead of the more RELIABLE IC (sorry- just had to poke you a little). I'm thinking relays were more common in the portables but the upper end table models utilized them, also. The contacts on the relay would get dirty and introduce snow/lines into the playback. I am going from memory and have only serviced a few machines with this problem- I longer have my annotated service data. Try tapping lightly on the relay (should be located close to the video heads and MAY have a clear plastic cover) and see if your lines come and go.

For American TV's and Japanese VCR's I don't if there are many models I would say "matched". All should be compatable with each other if they are aligned and functioning properly. Don't try to judge the quality of something based on the year it was made. If you're looking for "visually matching", well, call a decorator! Love your 121 and give that old lady the respect and care she deserves, my friend! Best,
Brian

[waltchan]

Please pardon my post above, but I didn't mean to say I need a VCR that runs forever, and nothing runs forever. I am determinating the two brands, Panasonic or Hitachi, based on parts availability right now, internal design, video head durability, etc. Without surface-mount caps, I am better off. With surface-mount caps, I am worse off.

[wa2ise]

Originally Posted by waltchan

Please pardon my post above, but I didn't mean to say I need a VCR that runs forever, and nothing runs forever. I am determinating the two brands, Panasonic or Hitachi

Don't know about parts, but back in their day I had a VFT456 "industrial grade" VCR. Had a 3 prong power cord, and silver instead of wood grain trim. Made a sharper image than the Hitachi's RCA re-labeled later on.

[nasadowsk]

Originally Posted by wa2ise

I used to work at the RCA Smirnoff Labs in princeton NJ back then,

Hmmm, is that what they made over at that little, non descript lab on the south side of the tracks, back in the woods, a little north of there?

(Actually, that was a nuke reactor up there, Sarnoff Labs pops up in the NRC/EPA/DOE records because they were somehow involved with the effort, I think leasing lab space or such. I only know about this because I noticed the dead-ringer 'sphere next to a building and cooling towers' on the flight home from Puerto Rico, and looked it up.)

[MRX37]

Hey since we're on the subject of CTC 121 TV's, my CTC 121 has a minor issue. Whenever there's audio, I see little vertical waves in the picture. Nothing else seems to be wrong with the TV. It sounds great and the picture looks good apart from those faint wavy lines.

[wa2ise]

Hey since we're on the subject of CTC 121 TV's, my CTC 121 has a minor issue. Whenever there's audio, I see little vertical waves in the picture.

Hmmm, is that what they made over at that little, non descript lab on the south side of the tracks, back in the woods, a little north of there?

That's the sound carrier beating with the chroma carrier. There's an adjustable coil in the IF strip, tweaking it should get rid of it.

And only the management there drank it...

[maximillian]

Sorry I just found this thread. My dad bought a VKT650 back in '85. I have it now because of the fond memories with the first family VCR. I even bought the repair manual and a bunch of spare parts.

I have a beautiful sales brochure from back then for this VCR that also has other models in this series. It's about a dozen pages that are legal paper size. If anyone is interested I could probably be convinced to scan it. I prefer not to post the pics myself but could email to someone who will.

[zenithfan1]

Originally Posted by Blast

Hey, fellow CTC121 owner! Mine is actually a JC Penney 685-2501J (which had a dark oak cabinet) which now resides in a medium oak RCA cabinet. If it didn't have a rear cover that says JCP it would pass for an RCA. It has the full A/V jack pack. I used to work on VCR/TV's in the '90's and got this for free in '91. It had 3 different problems, both audio and video, when I got it which kept me busy but that beautiful oak cabinet is what kept me pushing on.
I have what I believe to be the RCA version of the original remote that I bought new in '91. I don't remember which 121 it is but if I remember right it has a letter suffix that was only used for JCP models. Sometimes there weren't a lot of differences between the letter suffixes and other times there were. When servicing you really need to know which model you're working on, otherwise there are 'surprises'. Like an IDIOT, lost the service data I had for it. I had it 'customized' for the version of the chassis it is and was all annotated with all the repairs I've made over the years. RATS! Anyway, after it's last repair about 5 years ago it keeps on chuggin and, I dare say, has the same gorgeous picture it probably had new in '84 (unlike other sets I've had that turned 'green')! Although the amp is stereo, the tuner is not so this is a good canidate for a convertor box- maybe I can get another 20 years out of her. Enjoy yours as I have with mine!
Brian

This is the EXACT one I have! I love that thing!

[Blast]

Originally Posted by zenithfan1

This is the EXACT one I have! I love that thing!

To us, my friend. We are truly blessed.

Others just WISH they could be like us!

[zenithfan1]

Right back at ya' friend!

[waltchan]

My RCA CTC-121 just developed a problem today. Everytime I turn it on, it works and picture loads, but in just 15 seconds, it would make a loud hissing noise inside for 2 seconds, and then it goes away immediately. Also, when I turn off the TV and make the picture tube turn to black, it would leave green and red shot marks at the lower quarter of the screen, but the blue doesn't show. Is the blue shot dead? Is it normal for a RCA CTC-121 to leave green and red marks on the screen when turning off? Anyone can tell me the cause of the problems?

[zenithfan1]

The color splotches seem to be normal, mine has done this since I've bought it. It sounds like the flyback is going bad, I have to replace the one in mine too, I picked up a few parts chassis. if they are both the same, you are more than welcome to the second fly. I'll check them out today or tomorrow.

[Blast]

Originally Posted by waltchan

My RCA CTC-121 just developed a problem today. Everytime I turn it on, it works and picture loads, but in just 15 seconds, it would make a loud hissing noise inside for 2 seconds, and then it goes away immediately. Also, when I turn off the TV and make the picture tube turn to black, it would leave green and red shot marks at the lower quarter of the screen, but the blue doesn't show. Is the blue shot dead? Is it normal for a RCA CTC-121 to leave green and red marks on the screen when turning off? Anyone can tell me the cause of the problems?

You say it hisses "inside"; NOT from the speakers, right? While it makes this hissing noise what happens to the picture? Can you set your watch with the times you indicate? In other words, does this hissing happen at the same time for the same duration? What happens if the set has been on for a long time- does it start again? Can you tell if it does it more with higher humidity levels in the air, or not?

As far as the color splotches I am in agreement with my bud, zenithfan1 (dude- we're out of beer!). Although I usually see that phenomena closer to the center of the screen I have always been under the impression that it means that you've got a CRT with lots of pep and life left in it. So let's take care of that hiss and get another 20 years out of that 121!

[waltchan]

Originally Posted by Blast

You say it hisses "inside"; NOT from the speakers, right? While it makes this hissing noise what happens to the picture? Can you set your watch with the times you indicate? In other words, does this hissing happen at the same time for the same duration? What happens if the set has been on for a long time- does it start again? Can you tell if it does it more with higher humidity levels in the air, or not?

The hissing noise is coming from the main chassis board and only occurs in the beginning, when powering up, and then it stays with no noise at all for many hours, days, weeks, as long as it is not turned off. When hissing noise occurs, it did NOT affect the picture quality at all, although I do see a horizontal line cut off a little from the top or bottom.

Originally Posted by Blast

As far as the color splotches I am in agreement with my bud, zenithfan1 (dude- we're out of beer!). Although I usually see that phenomena closer to the center of the screen I have always been under the impression that it means that you've got a CRT with lots of pep and life left in it. So let's take care of that hiss and get another 20 years out of that 121!

That's good to hear. Is the blue splotch supposed to be there, because I don't see a blue splotch at all, but only red and green.