Shift to Low-Def TV by Older Guys ?

[Richard D]

The fence charger should get the job done nicely. It reminded me that I have a neon sign transformer that is rated 15 KV at 60 ma. I have been told that they are no longer made above 30 Ma. (like it matters) I bet that would fix it real good.

[Chad Hauris]

To me the HD picture does look better than analog NTSC...the standard definition digital picture looks worse to me with a lot more artifacts/pixellation than standard definition analog.
Even though I can tell and appreciate the increase in quality of HDTV...it does not increase my viewing pleasure enough to want to go out and buy all the expensive new equipment.

Also the flat panel sets have not shown up at all at Texas Recycles day...so at least in this community their failure rate seems fairly low, just based on the low apparent level of discarded sets.

[Fisherdude]

Very interesting discussion. I'm on the verge of making the leap, but I'm going to wait a bit before I buy.

The one thing that appears to be missing from most posts describing what the poster likes/dislikes about a particular type of set is the set size and viewing distance.

A 19" CRT set will just look fabulous from 6'. If you sit 2 feet away from a 36" CRT set, it will look like you're watching TV through venetian blinds.

If you're watching a 42" HD set at 15' distance, you probably couldn't tell the difference between 480p, 720p, or 1080p.

Sitting 5' away from a 60" HD set displaying a standard non-HD picture, it will look very bad.

So, it's all dependent on the details of the viewing situation.

I do agree, though, that far too many sets are adjusted "over the top", with the brightness, sharpness, and color intensity wayyyy too high. I was over at a friend's house to watch a golf tournament on his new HD tv. The fairways were such a shocking neon mint green that you could barely stand to look at it. You couldn't even see a ball sitting on the grass the bloom and fuzzines was so bad.

The anchors on the evening news aren't supposed to look like they just spent two hours frying in a tanning booth.

[Snade]

Fisherdude, many good points.

I've visited several friends / family where the TV screen is too big for the room and seating distance.

I'm guessing we buy a HD next year and it will be an under 40 inch screen and based on some fine feedback from this thread, probably a plasma and we'll turn down the sharpness. I watch a lot of tennis and no doubt you see the ball and the game way better on hi-def.

But I'll keep the 19 inch Trinitron in the family room for low-def viewing - news, old movies, Cubs game playing in the background.

Snade

[YamahaFreak]

Originally Posted by Fisherdude

The anchors on the evening news aren't supposed to look like they just spent two hours frying in a tanning booth.

[radiotvnut]

For some people, screen size means more to them than picture quality. I've been in many houses where a 19" TV would have been big enough for the room; but, they have a 60" projection TV sitting there. The picture looks like crap; but, they've got a BIG TV!

[Fisherdude]

I'm going to try to post this chart in case anyone reading this thread missed it. It's a great explanation of what size hd tv will make sense for you in your particular viewing room.

[VinylHanger]

I'm not sure how to read that chart. We have a large room, but will sit about 10 foot from the TV if we get HD. So how big should we get. I want an immersive experience, but I don't want to see up Dr. Phil's nose if you know what I mean. we could move back a bit, but it would change the layout of the room, but I'm willing if it would make for better viewing.

[Fisherdude]

Take a look at where the 10' viewing distance line intersects with the 50" screen size. It's right on the green line where "full benefit of 720p (vs 480p) is visible".

This means that at 10', if you put a 50" 480p set and a 50" 720p set side by side, the difference would be dramatic. The 720p set would have a noticeably better picture. However, if you put a 50" 720p and 1080p set side by side, you really wouldn't be able to see much difference. If you moved closer than 10', you'd start to see the 1080p set start to look better than the 720p.

In order for a 1080p set to look as good as it could at 10', you'd need an 80" screen.

I know this may not sound logical, and it may be hard to grasp the concept of what degrees of arc the human eye is capable of resolving, so maybe an extreme example will make it clear. If you put a 50" 720p set and a 50" 1080p set side by side, and viewed the pictures from a distance of 50', obviously you wouldn't be able to tell any difference between the two whatsoever. If you started walking slowly toward the two tv's, eventually you would get close enough that you could juuuuust barely tell that the picture on the 1080p was starting to look juuuuust a little better. That's what the chart is showing.

In my viewing room, the couch and the tv are 18' apart. What does that mean in my case? In order to get the maximum benefit of 1080p, I would need a 120" screen. Not gonna happen. So, that means that in my case (probably a 46"-50"), 720p will be just fine.

Otoh, if I think about what's happening in the marketplace, i.e. that 1080p is becoming more and more common, and prices continue to drop as they eventually do with every new technology, I'll probably end up with a 1080p set anyway. It just won't really make that much difference in the picture that I'm actually viewing on a 50" set at 18'.

[ChrisW6ATV]

Thank you for posting that chart here, Fisherdude. For my big-screen viewing, I sit between the red and purple lines, closer to the purple. I am definitely one of the people for whom the jump from 720p to 1080p was a big improvement. (I sit 96-108" away from a 92" diagonal screen.) I love pausing an HD DVD movie on a street scene and looking at all the people and small stores, or on a shot of a newspaper and reading the articles. It is fun to see how they took a regular newspaper and added in the fake story that relates to the movie's plot.

[Fisherdude]

Originally Posted by ChrisW6ATV

... I am definitely one of the people for whom the jump from 720p to 1080p was a big improvement. (I sit 96-108" away from a 92" diagonal screen.)...

I'm not surprised! At that combo, 1440p would start to look better than 1080p!

[Bill R]

As far as reliability, consider this. In our store the display sets are on 24 hours a day 7 days a week and 364 days a year. That is over 61,000 hours of operation. At 2000 hours per year (about 5 or 6 hours per day) that is equal to some 30 years of operation. It is rare that we have any set completely fail, but it does happen on occasion. We reset the display usually once a year with maybe an update at 6 months. Now while the quality of the sets is not what it was years ago, the reliability is still better than you might expect. Of the lcd and plasma sets that do come back, it is mostly sets like the Polaroid, Emerson, low end stuff. We do not see many of the Samsung, Sanyo, Vizio sets returned. We sell a lot of tv's over the course of a year.

Bill R

[Cleve]

Thanks for sharing that informative chart, Fisherdude. I measured - where I sit on the couch is 9' from the screen - I've been contemplating upgrading from a 42" plasma to a 50". There's been some excellent deals on 50" 720p sets in the last week. But I thought I should probably hold out for 1080p. According to your chart, I could probably *just* start to see the advantage.

Now, I'm just going to wait until spring - given the way prices have fallen, a 1080p 50" will be about the price a 50" 720p is currently

[VinylHanger]

Originally Posted by Bill R

As far as reliability, consider this. In our store the display sets are on 24 hours a day 7 days a week and 364 days a year. That is over 61,000 hours of operation. At 2000 hours per year (about 5 or 6 hours per day) that is equal to some 30 years of operation. It is rare that we have any set completely fail, but it does happen on occasion. We reset the display usually once a year with maybe an update at 6 months. Now while the quality of the sets is not what it was years ago, the reliability is still better than you might expect. Of the lcd and plasma sets that do come back, it is mostly sets like the Polaroid, Emerson, low end stuff. We do not see many of the Samsung, Sanyo, Vizio sets returned. We sell a lot of tv's over the course of a year.

Bill R

Well this sets my mind a bit at ease. Now I'll have to figure out how to get me one.

[Fisherdude]

Originally Posted by Cleve

...Now, I'm just going to wait until spring - given the way prices have fallen, a 1080p 50" will be about the price a 50" 720p is currently

That's pretty much what I'm counting on!