Shift to Low-Def TV by Older Guys ?

[Clmrt]

I prefer the pic on my 32" Toshiba SD down here in the cave. My wife got a 32" LG LCD and I have it tweaked for best effect. Football looks best, OTA HD looks great, but I like the CRT overall.

One of these days, when I'm home alone, I'm going to "steal" it for a bit to see what it looks like in the basement.

[bgadow]

Reminds me of the discussion of how some older folks, back in the sixties, preferred the "soft" picture of a Motorola color tv...or generally disliked a properly adjusted NTSC set. There is something odd about these new sets that I just can't put my finger on. When I see them in the store or in someone's house I have to stop and stare, but I'm not sure I like what I see. Too bright? Too clear? I don't know. If I look too long all I see are artifacts/pixelating and I walk away.

[mr_fixer]

Well i have noticed something, on the last two sets i found at thrift stores both of them had the sharpness control turned way down. One control was hidden in a out of the way area of the back. so it might have still had the factory adjustment. maybe people liked it that way back then?

[freakaftr8]

My Dad has a 65" Samsung HDTV CRT projector... The last of the CRT style HD projection screen units circa 2005. He has the sharpness way down on his set as well because in HD mode it's just too sharp, especially around the edges of images in football games and nascar.. So I think Hi Def is most likely a cause of the sharpness issue.

[mr_fixer]

Perhaps, but the last 2 sets I found were made in the mid 70's. 1 Zenith and 1 Sears Toshiba and I think they have never seen HD, heck they aren't even cable ready.

[andy]

Most recent CRT TVs (including projection) have scan velocity modulation. It slows the beam down at edges of objects to make the picture look sharper. It makes the image look like someone traced around everything with a pen. I can't stand what it does to the image and I always disable it when I fix a set for myself, or to sell. One way to reduce the adverse effect on the picture is to turn the sharpness way down.

It started to show up on high end sets in the mid 80's, but it's now standard on most TVs. They have also gradually increased the strength of the SVM over the years. It was hardly noticeable on the first TVs to have it, but now it's very annoying.

[CUlater]

'svm'?

[andy]

Originally Posted by CUlater

'svm'?

Scan Velocity Modulation

[Duane]

Originally Posted by mr_fixer

Well i have noticed something, on the last two sets i found at thrift stores both of them had the sharpness control turned way down. One control was hidden in a out of the way area of the back. so it might have still had the factory adjustment. maybe people liked it that way back then?

Sharpness should be turned down on most sets. If set too high,it causes edge blooming.There's a couple of test patterns that are used to actually adjust sharpness.

[Macdude]

If I new the new sets would last as long as my 1982 13" Montgomery Ward, maybe I'd buy into them. I'm 19, so my eyes are still decent, and I have to agree on the "odd look" issue. HD sets look completely artificial to me. Now I'm making my judgement based on retail displays, so they're probably not adjusted properly. Either way though, TV's are made with the same cheapo quality components that everything else is made of now, so I just don't want any part of it. It's all so disposable...

Besides, is there really anything on TV these days that justifies their price tag?

[ChrisW6ATV]

Clearly (pun intended), age has nothing to do with whether people like HD displays or not. I am 47, and last spring I replaced my 720p projector with a 1080p model because the old one was not detailed enough. I watch high-def movie discs on a 92" screen, and I sit about 8 to 9 feet from the screen. For casual viewing, I have a 1080p 42" LCD hanging on the wall behind where the big screen pulls down. I can read text just fine on a 1920x1080 Windows desktop on that LCD (or the 92" screen, for that matter). I have a really good pair of glasses...

[Snade]

Originally Posted by ChrisW6ATV

Clearly (pun intended), age has nothing to do with whether people like HD displays or not. I am 47, and last spring I replaced my 720p projector with a 1080p model because the old one was not detailed enough. I watch high-def movie discs on a 92" screen, and I sit about 8 to 9 feet from the screen. For casual viewing, I have a 1080p 42" LCD hanging on the wall behind where the big screen pulls down. I can read text just fine on a 1920x1080 Windows desktop on that LCD (or the 92" screen, for that matter). I have a really good pair of glasses...

Hi Chris, Good discussion.

My point on age was not really related to the quality of our vision.

I've been watching TV (too much) for 50 years, most of that time on Zenith color tube sets of my youth and more recently - Sony Trinitrons. Over the years, you develop an appreciation (based on your own experience) for what is a good picture and bad picture.

To my eye, the HD TVs I have seen are too sharp and too bright.

This is just a statement of personal preference. I may get a HD TV someday, but for now, I like my old low-def Trinitron.

Cheers, Snade

[andy]

Originally Posted by Snade

To my eye, the HD TVs I have seen are too sharp and too bright.

This is just a statement of personal preference. I may get a HD TV someday, but for now, I like my old low-def Trinitron.

Cheers, Snade

That's because they're designed to be brighter and sharper than the set that's sitting next to them at Best Buy. This war has been going on for a long time, so things are really out of hand now. If you saw a properly adjusted set in one of these displays, you'd laugh at it for being dim and soft with dull color. In the home, a properly adjusted HD TV (with a good signal) should look similar to a movie screen.

[compucat]

Originally Posted by andy

That's because they're designed to be brighter and sharper than the set that's sitting next to them at Best Buy. This war has been going on for a long time, so things are really out of hand now. If you saw a properly adjusted set in one of these displays, you'd laugh at it for being dim and soft with dull color. In the home, a properly adjusted HD TV (with a good signal) should look similar to a movie screen.

I have on occasion adjusted one set in a store display to have correct color and contrast settings. Once I had the set looking good, id did then appear weak and washed out compared to the adjacent sets. Most of the flat panel sets I have seen do not look very good at all and are never adjusted correctly at the store. Perhaps at home they would look better but I just have no interest in buying one. I would prefer to stick to tube color sets from now on. At least I know I can service them. What's the point of finding a great flat panels TV only to have to throw it out in a few years because parts are not available.

[willyrover]

LCD technology really isn't good enough yet for TV. Even the "fastest" LCDs still show noticeable ghosting or blurring during fast action scenes when compared side by side with CRTs. But damn....the convenience size wise is definitely a HUGE selling factor.

As for analog vs. digital...

...consider the fact that all video and film is recorded at a specific "frame rate" and even older television displays had certain "characteristics that are analogous to digital " mainly relying on "tricking" the brain into thinking that it is seeing a fluid "analog" image it comes down more to the quality of the image being transmitted rather than the domain.

At one time audio was about reproducing a linear analog recording. Video has never been like this.