Some new Black & White sets... - Videokarma.org TV - Video

dr.ido · #1 01-01-2006, 05:12 AM

Another thread led to the question of whether black & white sets were still being manufactured.

I'm sure we've all seen the little 5" sets that are sold at discount stores, but it seems (at least according to the listings on alibaba.com) that larger sets are still being made.

Here are some pictures (images are hosted on my webspace as I doubt they allow hotlinking) taken from the listings on alibaba.com...

A couple of 10" sets:

A couple of 14" sets, notice that one looks like it has a click tuner:

While it is showing a color image according to the listing it is a 17" B&W:

Lastly these 2 oddities, 16:9 B&W? One is 7", the other 9". Someone is actually making 16:9 B&W CRTs!

There are also mentions of 19" remote sets, but no pictures.

Minimum quanities start at around 200 sets FOB China. No prices are quoted for these, but other listings for 14" color sets hover around US$30ea....

Anyone want to order some?

jroberts500 · #2 01-03-2006, 09:10 AM

What will they think of next!

Whirled One · #3 01-03-2006, 09:32 PM

Aaaaaaagh!
Oh, I just looove those 16:9 mini B&W TV's.

I wonder what the minimum lot is on those. I know I'd buy one of them just for novelty value.

Thanks for pointing out alibaba.com-- it looks at least as entertaining as those web sites that sell various junk to flea-market vendors and "dollar-store" owners.

I couldn't find those wide-screen B&W sets on the site, but I did see one other interesting B&W set; it's a 2" one that looks like a knock-off of the lollipop-tube Sony Watchman B&W sets. (In fact, in the picture it looks like someone Photoshop'ed the words "Watch man" on the front of it)

dr.ido · #4 01-05-2006, 03:29 AM

I found several listings for security monitors and door cams using those flat watchman style CRTs, so similar TV's aren't surprising. I just wish they'd post better pictures of the actual products. In the picture of the watchman clone they didn't even bother to remove all the color from the "on screen" image, but I guess actual screen shots are too much to ask.

Most of those larger sets seem to use the same manual electronic tuning as the discount 5" sets. Some of the larger sets and possibly the 16:9 sets seem to have the same auto tuning as most current sets. That click tuner on one of the 14" sets surprised me though. Someone must have a warehouse full of old click tuners as they can't be cheaper to manufacture.

I'll have to go scrounging through the crappy markets I usually avoid, maybe someone has those 16:9 sets...

dr.ido · #5 01-05-2006, 03:33 AM

Also, minimum order seems to be a container load. That works out at around 200/400 larger sets, depending on the type of container (I couldn't decipher those parts of the listing being largely ignorant of the specifics of shipping containers), but goes up to 1000+ for some of the smaller sets.

domfjbrown · #6 01-05-2006, 04:47 AM

I can see a niche market for the 16x9 b&w sets - watching old b&w DVDs such as "A night to remember".

Even on good colour TVs with excellent convergence, b&w never looks the same as on a REAL b&w screen - at least to me. Maybe it's something to do both with convergence and the shadow mask/dot-stripe patterns?

dr.ido · #7 01-05-2006, 06:10 AM

I've noticed green/purple artifacts around B&W images on DVD. I don't see the same artifacts on tape or LD so I assume they are a product or the encoding process.

I wonder if it is possible to optimise the encoder settings for B&W content in order to at least minimise if not eliminate these artifacts. While it wouldn't help with commercial DVDs it may be an option if you have B&W content to burn.

Another option may be to connect your DVD player via S-video and disconnect the chroma line when watching B&W movies. That should elimate color artifacts.

I agree that B&W video looks best on a B&W set, but I doubt I'd want to watch a 9" set for long. I'd still buy one though.

andy · #8 01-05-2006, 11:30 AM

I wonder if MPEG supports B/W? It would save some bits if there was no chroma information.

I have to admit that I prefer the way B/W looks on a color set. I think it's because I have never seen a B/W set that had perfect DC restoration and a well regulated power supply. They also usually have really light tinted screens that give poor contrast. I need to see a high quality B/W professional monitor. All the B/W sets I can think of were either really cheap, or made before the days of regulated power supplies and good DC restoration.

RetroHacker · #9 01-05-2006, 01:16 PM

Those 16:9 black and white sets are really cool - they're just so unusual! I'd love to buy one - and it would also be pretty cool to have a modern, remote operated black and white set, but I can't imagine the amount of work it would be to organize a shipment from China - the quantities involved are just too huge. At my old job we shipped non-working computer monitors overseas by the container, and let me tell you, those containers are pretty big. We could fit _about_ 22 pallets on there, and with approximately 30 monitors per pallet (17"), plus loose monitors packed in the extra space, we could fit about 700 monitors on a container. Now, this was without packing material to speak of, and I don't know how many you could fit if they were all in boxes, but it would be a lot. And I don't want to think of how many thousand of those little 16:9 TV's would make a container...

-Ian

RetroHacker · #10 01-05-2006, 01:30 PM

OK, found the website of the manufacturer of those little 11" 16:9 TV's - they show that a 20ft container holds 1784 of them, and a 40ft container will hold 4056. So... I'll buy two of 'em - now all we need to do is find people to buy the other 1782 tv's... Haven't found a distributor that carries these things, but that's definitely the way to go. Because I don't really feel like trying to sell them on eBay for the rest of my life...

-Ian

bgadow · #11 01-05-2006, 02:33 PM

Interesting stuff...on that click tuner set, that doesn't look like it has stops for each UHF channel, and the VHF dial appears odd, too. Could just be the way I'm looking at it. I'm sure the vast majority of these get sold in third world backwaters where any tv is a luxury & $30 is an awful lot of money. They probably don't have very good reception in those places, so bw would work better anyway.

I have seen some of those drugstore 5" sets being sold with mail-in rebates where the final price was $9.95 or less. The wholesale cost of those things must be $5 each.

andy · #12 01-05-2006, 06:16 PM

That 16:9 B/W TV is also mentioned here:

http://itrademarket.com/worldamax/181913

Chad Hauris · #13 01-05-2006, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy

I wonder if MPEG supports B/W? It would save some bits if there was no chroma information.

I have to admit that I prefer the way B/W looks on a color set. I think it's because I have never seen a B/W set that had perfect DC restoration and a well regulated power supply. They also usually have really light tinted screens that give poor contrast. I need to see a high quality B/W professional monitor. All the B/W sets I can think of were either really cheap, or made before the days of regulated power supplies and good DC restoration.

I have a Conrac 14" b/w monitor which uses a 6080 tube for the B+ regulation and a 6BK4 for HV regulation, plus it has a cylindrically curved screen. It ought to provide about the best B/W picture attainable but is full of black beauty caps which I'll need to replace for it to work right.

dr.ido · #14 01-06-2006, 03:00 AM

Retrohacker: There's an 11" version of the 16:9 B&W? I could only find the 7" and the 9". Put me down for a couple, only 1780 to go

Perhaps I should get down to the Caribean Gardens crap market I normally avoid and see if there are any to be found.

bgadow: The third world market makes sense. It would also explain why even the 17" model is listed as coming with a 12VDC power lead. That said I know a couple of dealers who ship containers loads of used electronics from Australia to Africa. One of them would buy dead color sets for AU$2-10, he supposedly had techs over there that would get them going for him. He even cleared out my shed of old (but not old enough to be interesting) TV chassis. Another guy still would pay a premium for pretty much anything that was 12VDC, especially PA amplifiers and multiband radios. If these guys can undercut the new $30 color sets and make a profit, how much can they be selling these B&W sets for?

andy: You've got me wondering how good B&W could get. Anyone tried running video through a scan doubler into say an Eizo Flexscan 6600 or similar hires B&W monitor? Or maybe sticking the dark tint CRT from a computer monitor into a video monitor? It's been so long since I've actually really watched a B&W TV (I always ended up with more monitors than TVs for some reason, even in my couldn't afford color days) that I'd forgotten about the poor regulation and contrast.

I've got some relatively useless B&W Mac monitors and some old multisync monitors that sync down to 15kHz, maybe I've just found a use for them.

domfjbrown · #15 01-06-2006, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RetroHacker

it would also be pretty cool to have a modern, remote operated black and white set

I REALLY need to ask my folks if they still have their 1985 Philips 12inch b&w portable - it had 12 channels AND remote control - even with Standby IIRC

I'd love to get one of those l'il 16x9 b&ws as well - don't suppose they also support PAL?