It finally happened

[radiotvnut]

Comcast finally moved the last few analog channels to digital.

Up until about a year ago, we had cable channels 2-67 still available via analog delivery and could be received on a traditional cable ready TV without the need for a cable box. Channels 2-13 could be received on any set with a mechanical tuner.

Then, they moved all channels above 12 to digital and the only way to watch them was to obtain either the big Motorola Comcast digital cable box or the low end digital transport adapter (DTA). They would allow you one big box + two DTA's or three DTA's without the big box for no additional charge. Additional DTA's could be rented for a few dollars a month. We got our three free DTA's for the three TV's that get the most use. The kitchen TV and the bedroom TV are only used for watching the local news; so, those sets were connected directly to the cable, since we didn't feel the need to rent additional DTA's.

Tonight, I turned on the kitchen TV to watch the evening news while eating supper. I was greeted with snow on all channels. I then checked the bedroom TV and got the same results; so, it's obvious they have moved everything to digital.

And, I still don't plan on renting more DTA's. The other two TV's will be connected to antennas and DTV converter boxes.

I'm really not that thrilled with the digital service. The living room TV is bad about freezing up and/or losing the picture. Once, the locked up and I had to call Comcast for them to send a signal down the line to reprogram the box. Sometimes, the wrong channel will appear on the screen or the channel will not change. The other night, I lost sound and the only way I could get it back was to unplug and reapply AC power to the DTA box.

And, the cable companies will probably end up going belly up if the service does not get better and if the price keeps going up.

[lnx64]

I still have analog service here, but the middle 50's are all gone..

I have to use a digital cable box though because the channels I want have moved to the digital tier..

Sadly I have to fight the crap this box does though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho9CvgfLFW8

[Eric H]

I don't see how Cable (traditional Copper cable that is) can possibly deliver Digital reliably, they couldn't even do Analog reliably.

I've had DirecTV for 12 years and it's been unbelievably good, even in heavy rain it works well.

I would expect Verizon Fios to be pretty solid also, I have the Internet with Fios and it's been quite dependable, they keep trying to get me to switch my TV over to them but since I hardly watch regular TV anymore I see no need.

I almost cancelled Direct, not for service issues but because it was expensive and I hadn't used it much this last year, they talked me into going with a cheaper package for now, I may still cancel eventually because I watch most of my favorite shows via Streaming Video, much cheaper to buy them individually than to get them through a Cable or Satellite service.

[Hemingray]

I think we have a bit longer out here in the boondocks with the locally owned CaCo (Independence Co. Cable), sadly, they won't bring cable out my way, so stuck with dish

[Jeffhs]

I have Time Warner cable, but with no box (cable connects directly to my flat screen). TW moved several channels to the digital tier (Travel Channel, ShopNBC, Speed, TruTV) some time ago, leaving the rest of the cable channels where they are, even though the company claims to have converted all of its systems to all-digital, with no analog signals whatsoever on the cable any longer.

I find this extremely difficult to believe. The only digital channels still on my level of cable service (Standard) are the broadcast stations; the rest of the cable channels are still analog NTSC, so TW is definitely not fully digital yet. The digital channels show up on my TV's channel indicator as HD channels, but I do not notice much of a difference between HD and standard definition -- so I watch the network stations' SD feeds most of the time. Even WGN America is NTSC except for their nine p.m. newscast, which is in fact broadcast in HD. I can't help wondering why that station doesn't broadcast entirely in 720p HD; maybe it does in the Chicago area over WGN-TV channel 9, but the national feed is obviously NTSC, except, as I said, for the newscast. However, I have a feeling that the news is shown on the national feed in NTSC analog. This shouldn't be an issue for people living outside the Chicago area, as that newscast is, after all, for that area and is of no interest to out-of-town viewers; I have often wondered why cable systems outside metro Chicago do not black out the newscast, replacing it with local programming. I asked a representative at Time Warner about this last year and was told that the cable company must carry WGN America (except for local sports blackouts) in its entirety and, as such, cannot black out any other part of the station's programming, including -- yup, you guessed it -- WGN News at 9 p.m.


The only way I could get true HD on my flat screen would be if I rented a cable box from Time Warner (which offers free HD service), and I'm not about to do that for at least two reasons. One, the rental fee for cable boxes has gone up (from $5 per month to $8.50), and two, I don't see what the big deal is about high-definition TV anyway, as I have a 19" flat screen. Unless you have a large screen (30" and up), the high-definition effect may not be noticeable; in fact, someone here in this forum (don't recall whom at the moment) mentioned some time ago that the HD effect in fact is not that noticeable on a 19" screen unless you sit no more than three feet (!) from it. My TV is a good ten feet away from my easy chair, so of course I'm not seeing in HD the few network shows I still watch (though the picture on every channel is much better than NTSC analog ever was). Since my DVD player and VCR are connected to the TV via an RF modulator and via a coax cable, respectively (I don't use the direct audio/video inputs on the back of the set), I'm not seeing my Netflix rentals and personal DVDs/VHS tapes in HD either. The reason I do not use the direct inputs on the set is that I do not have a remote control that switches inputs (my GE universal does have an input select button, but for some reason it doesn't work with my system), and I don't want to get up from the chair to switch them manually.

[sanjarali]

Jeffhs what is easy chair?

[Jeffhs]

Originally Posted by radiotvnut

Comcast finally moved the last few analog channels to digital.

Up until about a year ago, we had cable channels 2-67 still available via analog delivery and could be received on a traditional cable ready TV without the need for a cable box. Channels 2-13 could be received on any set with a mechanical tuner.

Tonight, I turned on the kitchen TV to watch the evening news while eating supper. I was greeted with snow on all channels. I then checked the bedroom TV and got the same results; so, it's obvious they have moved everything to digital.

I thought you said a while back that you can still get channels 2-13 without a cable box. If so, why are you not getting anything on your TVs? I don't know how the channels are arranged on your cable, but if your local network stations are still on channels from 2 to 13 you should still be seeing them. Time Warner Cable in my area downconverts UHF channels to VHF channel positions; for example, CBS channel 19 is on VHF channel 4, MyTV 43 is on channel 6, PBS channel 25 is on channel ten, etc.

Your area's cable system must be set up differently if you have lost everything, including broadcast channels; this doesn't seem right to me. Even if they switch everything else to digital channels, the broadcast channels should still be available without a box, as FCC rules do not permit cable companies to scramble or otherwise make unviewable broadcast channels. Do you have standard CRT NTSC televisions or flat screens? If the latter, you should still be getting most channels your cable delivers, since all flat screens made in the last few years have NTSC/ATSC/clear QAM tuners.

Most newer sets can also receive clear QAM channels, but some older flat screens cannot. If your TVs are flat screens older than about five years, their tuners probably cannot receive clear QAM; this could explain why you are not receiving anything since the cable company decided to put all channels on digital tiers.

BTW, depending on your cable provider, your local network affiliates may already be on VHF channels. I looked at the TV Guide listings (Comcast Cable) for Meridian and found that the network stations in your area are all on channels from 2 to 13 (UHF stations downconverted to VHF channels), so you should still get these stations regardless of where the others are.

[jr_tech]

Well, it looks as if the shoes keep dropping,
I guess that it good that the cable company provided a few free digital converters, when it appears that they were perhaps not obligated to do so after Feb. of this year:

http://www.videokarma.org/showpost.p...26&postcount=6

jr

[jr_tech]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

Even WGN America is NTSC except for their nine p.m. newscast, which is in fact broadcast in HD. I can't help wondering why that station doesn't broadcast entirely in 720p HD; maybe it does in the Chicago area over WGN-TV channel 9, but the national feed is obviously NTSC, except, as I said, for the newscast.

Why do you think that the national feed is obviously NTSC? Is it indicated as such by your TV OSD?

jr

[Jeffhs]

Originally Posted by jr_tech

Why do you think that the national feed is obviously NTSC? Is it indicated as such by your TV OSD?

jr

Yes. When I watch WGN America it always shows on my TV's OSD as NTSC. I just turned on my flat screen and set it to WGN a moment ago. The on-screen display on my TV (in a small blue box in the upper right-hand corner of the screen) reads as follows:

ATV 15.0
WGN

NTSC

There is no info box across the bottom of the screen (showing program title, channel, signal strength, etc.) when this channel is selected, which is another indication that the station being viewed is being received as NTSC. The info box only displays when the channel you are watching is digital and/or HD; if a program is being received as ATSC (digital), the resolution is displayed on the OSD as well, below the station call sign. I don't know if it's my TV (or the cable) downconverting WGN's HD signal to NTSC or just what is going on.

However, I know WGN's nine o'clock newscast is presented in HD, as the intro to the broadcast clearly shows WGN 9 Midday News HD, with the "HD" in large silver-blue letters. This also is displayed when the program breaks for commercials, and, of course, at the end of the broadcast. If you tune in WGN's newscast at ten p. m. Eastern time (or whatever your local time zone is; the broadcast airs at nine pm Central time) you will see what I am referring to.

[jr_tech]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

Yes. When I watch WGN America it always shows on my TV's OSD as NTSC. I just turned on my flat screen and set it to WGN a moment ago. The on-screen display on my TV (in a small blue box in the upper right-hand corner of the screen) reads as follows:

ATV 15.0
WGN

NTSC

OK, my best guess is that your cable company converts WGN to NTSC for distribution on the the lower tier cable channels. I doubt that they turn off the conversion for the news. Check your OSD during the news... I suspect that it will still indicate NTSC, in spite of all indications from WGN that it is HD.

jr

[radiotvnut]

I could receive channels 2-12 in analog with the cable connected directly to the TV, until a few days ago. Evidently, that's when Comcast decided to go all digital because I can only get snow now. The only picture I get is a test pattern that can be received on one of the high channels.

[Jeffhs]

Originally Posted by radiotvnut

I could receive channels 2-12 in analog with the cable connected directly to the TV, until a few days ago. Evidently, that's when Comcast decided to go all digital because I can only get snow now. The only picture I get is a test pattern that can be received on one of the high channels.

That's amazing. Is there not an FCC rule that forbids cable companies from denying customers access to basic service, i. e. broadcast channels, by any means, including scrambling and/or carrying them in QAM format?

Your only options now, of course, are 1) cancel your cable and use converter boxes and antennas on your TVs, or 2) if you want to keep the cable, get a cable box.

This is hardly new, especially in this digital age in which we live. Many people are finding out since the digital transition what you found out, that their TVs will no longer work by simply connecting the cable to the antenna terminals/coax jack on the set; to get anything at all anymore on many if not most cable systems today, you need either a flat screen with an ATSC/NTSC/QAM tuner or a converter box with an antenna if you want to use an older TV, and do not wish to (or cannot afford to) get cable.

All US cable systems will eventually convert to all digital service, if they haven't already. Time Warner Cable in my area near Cleveland (and in all other markets in which TW owns and operates cable systems) converted to full digital over a year ago, although, for reasons that completely elude me, they are still carrying most cable channels in NTSC analog format.

However, the Cleveland local TV stations are carried in ATSC digital format. I asked a Time-Warner customer service representative about this issue some time ago; the person told me she had no idea whatsoever why there are still NTSC analog channels on their northeastern Ohio/western Pennsylvania systems, including the one serving my area.

Ideally, TW's cable systems would be like Comcast's by now, completely unusable without a cable box or an HD flat screen, but such is not the case -- yet, anyway. I still have my almost 15-year-old Zenith Sentry 2 TV in my bedroom hooked up to cable, and it still works without a box; for how long, however, is anyone's guess, as the other shoe may drop any time now (meaning Time Warner's cable service will not work without a cable box), leaving that set with no reception. I am not going to pay to rent a box for that TV, since I don't use it much.

Have you considered replacing your present televisions with flat screens? I don't know how old your sets are, but they must still be NTSC CRT TVs with old-style knob tuning or electronic varactor tuners if you will have to use a cable box with them in order to use them.

[radiotvnut]

I think that "must carry" rule expired this year; so, the cable companies are free to do as they please. We have our 3 free digital transfer adapters connected to the three main sets that are used the most. The kitchen TV and my bedroom TV are connected directly to the cable; which, now produces no programming. Those two sets will be connected to DTV converters and antennas. I refuse to pay extra for more cable boxes.

[jr_tech]

Some TW Digital Cable headaches in Maine:

http://stopthecap.com/2011/09/14/tim...ning-in-maine/

http://stopthecap.com/2011/10/06/mai...al-conversion/

Fun times
jr