Why does our CRT look better than HDTV?

[jimbofish]

We've always enjoyed the great picture on our 32" Sony CRT with analog sources. We've been noticing the picture on the newer flat panel TVs in bars and stores doesn't look as good as our old stuff at home. When we asked about it the answer has usually been that "that program's not in HD".

I checked out some new flat screens at the local appliance store, not a big box or chain, and they agreed that an hdtv with an SD or analog source would not look as good as a CRT with the same source. They said that we'd need an HD source to get the best picture from an HDTV. Unfortunately, I'm really not that impressed with the HD picture that they were showing from either digital cable or DirecTV. So far the only HDTV picture that I've seen that really looked better than our older setup was with a Blu-ray player.

Since we don't have any plans to upgrade our current sources in the immediate future, will we be disappointed with a new 1080/120 HDTV over our old CRT? None of the dealers have any provision for viewing any analog or SD programming. Or is there a method/setting that will improve the picture? It just seems unreasonable that these new TVs can't make a picture at least as good as the old stuff.

[AUdubon5425]

I feel the same way. As I have no plans on getting HD cable or HD DVDs, why spend money on an inferior product? Especially when any 25-27" color TV can be had for $50 or less today. Of course, I have a few 23"-25" consoles at the ready if the two-year-old Sansui we were given ever dies.

[Cruiseomatic]

"Just because it is new, Does'nt always mean its' better."
Because it is "digital" and its new means everyone needs to run to it and buy it.... I'm surprised they're not pushing 3D television. I'm serious, I saw one at best buy looking for a converter box I never got there. Did it look good? No, My eyes we're straining and began to hurt, The kid working in that department tried to sell me one. I told him "I'm not intrested, I'm looking for a converter box for my '53 Packard Bell television." After he looked at me sideways for a minute he asked what it was. I tried to explain it to him and he asked how good the color was! I said it does'nt have color, Shes B/W. He told me that I need to adjust it, or buy a new set.....Told him its older than his parents probably are and still works, now where are the boxs' at?

I did look at the "plasma" sets....How do they look good? Really? LCD is not much better.

[miniman82]

I gave a Visio plasma set to my folks recently that had an outstanding picture, it was very sharp. They also got a 32" HD WEGA set, it was very bright of course. I don't like the LCD sets, the color temperature is all wrong for some reason. Those both had a slightly better picture than my Mitsu set, but neither can beat the 65" picture size. It's a game of trade offs, if you ask me.

[jimbofish]

I spend most of my time over in AK, so I totally get that newer isn't necessarily better... it didn't occur to me that video had the same quandary. Duh! I'm still fuming over the DTV fiasco of last year

Maybe the reason I liked the Blu-ray setup I saw was BECAUSE it looked more analog, if that makes sense?

I haven't looked at any plasma sets yet... maybe I'll like those better. They do seem to be quite a bit less expensive size-for-size.

I'm starting to think that what I don't like is the digital source/HDTV combo. Since finding someplace that has any analog sources to sample on HDTV seems non-existent, I guess what I'm looking for is some one with experience using a newer TV with an older source... can analog look good on a digital tv?

[andy]

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[Reece]

I'm really still happy with my four-year-old 36" Toshiba CRT set. Our cable system switched over to all digital last year and we had to get converter boxes for all our TV's. I noticed that the new digital pictures have no snowy bits that sometimes occurred before. For example, now a person shown before a dark background: the background is perfectly dark, no snow whatsoever, and plenty realistic for me. Friends have asked if it was an HD set.

[kx250rider]

Join the club! I've tried all the plasma, LCD, OLED, and big-screen LCD projection & DLP sets, and always go back to the Sony HD CRT. The flat display sets are improving, and supposedly the Sharp with the yellow pixels is pretty good, but the fact remains that I like CRTs best. I'm sure it's mainly propaganda which has promoted the flat display sets, more than picture quality. "The Jones' have a flat screen; so must we all".

Charles

[holmesuser01]

My 27" Sony KV-27EXR35, built in 1991, and has a new kine that was only used from 1992-1994 installed, lives on with a very good image, considering it's running on a dish network system with lots of digital artifacts that I can see when close to the screen.

My 1993 Sony KV-27TS32 is all original, and looks great too. Why mess with a good thing?

Why move down to HD when I can expect it to die in a few years? Believe me, around here, I see alot of dead flat panel sets on garbage days.

[Ed in Tx]

I did not like LCD sets and hated the idea of retiring my 1987 year model 30" NEC CT-3000 CRT set. That's until I bought my Sony 40V4100 a couple of years ago. Once I properly adjusted it, brightness, contrast, color temperature, back light level etc., I am still impressed how good it is.
I worked in high quality 4 color printing, (worked on things like preparing the color separations, color matching and proofing Neiman Marcus Christmas catalogs among many other things, back in '71-'74) and later on Panasonic Industrial color cameras and monitors, so I think I have a pretty good "eye". Select one of the factory presets and it goes to the overdriven cartoonish looking picture. Fortunately the Sony has plenty of custom user adjustments.

A few samples taken off the screen..

[mwplefty]

Originally Posted by Cruiseomatic

"Just because it is new, Does'nt always mean its' better."
Because it is "digital" and its new means everyone needs to run to it and buy it.... I'm surprised they're not pushing 3D television. I'm serious, I saw one at best buy looking for a converter box I never got there. Did it look good? No, My eyes we're straining and began to hurt, The kid working in that department tried to sell me one. I told him "I'm not intrested, I'm looking for a converter box for my '53 Packard Bell television." After he looked at me sideways for a minute he asked what it was. I tried to explain it to him and he asked how good the color was! I said it does'nt have color, Shes B/W. He told me that I need to adjust it, or buy a new set.....Told him its older than his parents probably are and still works, now where are the boxs' at?

I did look at the "plasma" sets....How do they look good? Really? LCD is not much better.

It really annoys me that employees at Best Buy pretty much obligate you to buy a new LCD. They think that a flat-screen set manufactured this year is perfect for everyone. If the very old TV works, why not keep it? It's your hobby/interest, not theirs. Who are they to tell you what set you "should" be watching?

I think the picture quality of a flat-panel is great for the most part. Don't get me wrong. I watch a Samsung LCD from 2006, and it works fine. But nothing's better than a nice old RCA or Zenith.

[jimbofish]

Originally Posted by andy

I wouldn't base my opinion on picture quality on HDTVs in bars are Best Buy. I can guarantee they are just set to the factory defaults, and probably receiving a lousy signal. Flat panels have less room for being over driven by excess brightness and contrast than a CRT. When they are set up to be as vivid as possible, they lose detail and look like a cartoon. Try to look at a properly adjusted plasma before you write off HDTV flat panels.

The store in question isn't a big box store... just a local appliance dealer that's been there forever. They have their own electronics service guy who sets them all up, and will do the same when they deliver it... so I'd think they are adjusted at least fairly well. Customers don't get to mess with anything there either. They don't and never have sold BOTL equipment, but it's not high-end either. To me a 46" 1080/120 Toshiba & Mitsubishi looked fuzzy at a distance of 6-12'. The 40" looked a bit better @ 60hz though.

The one setup that I thought really looked good was at Meijers, where it was just set on an end cap with a BRay player connected. No one even works in that dept, let alone knows anything about setting them up... yet it looked excellent to me at a distance of just 2-3'.

The saleslady said she can't watch the 120 or 240 hz sets because it makes her dizzy. Is it possible that these 'motion-flow" features are what's annoying me?

[Kalamazoo-DJ]

I noticed at a chain hotel where I was supervising, that their flat screen was pixelating in the mid sections of the faces on the news casters, when I changed the channel it made no difference I never saw one so distorted but only in the faces regardless of where they were located on the screen.

[jimbofish]

Originally Posted by Ed in Tx

I did not like LCD sets and hated the idea of retiring my 1987 year model 30" NEC CT-3000 CRT set. That's until I bought my Sony 40V4100 a couple of years ago. Once I properly adjusted it, brightness, contrast, color temperature, back light level etc., I am still impressed how good it is.
I worked in high quality 4 color printing, (worked on things like preparing the color separations, color matching and proofing Neiman Marcus Christmas catalogs among many other things, back in '71-'74) and later on Panasonic Industrial color cameras and monitors, so I think I have a pretty good "eye". Select one of the factory presets and it goes to the overdriven cartoonish looking picture. Fortunately the Sony has plenty of custom user adjustments.

A few samples taken off the screen..

Hmmm... the Sony I liked was a similar model... 40*5100 as near as I remember. Maybe that's just a good set for me.

Maybe I need to clarify what I don't like about the HD sets I've seen... don't see any problems with color, blackness, brightness, and such... it's the details. They either look fuzzy, or they look fake, like overly detailed. Grass looks like a bunch of green worms waving around. The program I saw yesterday was on HD Theatre about Jay Leno disassembling a car for restoration. The car was white with some spray-painted areas in red. Those areas would go in and out of focus, as did the faces of the guys working. Nothing fast or high-speed, just random fuzzyness. This seemed to be the same regardless of which tv I was looking at. I'm not used to this... is this from the HD source, or the tv?

[Ed in Tx]

Originally Posted by jimbofish

Hmmm... the Sony I liked was a similar model... 40*5100 as near as I remember. Maybe that's just a good set for me.

The 5100 series replaced the 4100. I've not looked at one but have read a few opinions that owners of both thought the older 4100 sets looked better, a more natural picture. Probably over on AVS forum. I would have to get one and do some tweaking on it before I would believe that.

Maybe I need to clarify what I don't like about the HD sets I've seen... don't see any problems with color, blackness, brightness, and such... it's the details. They either look fuzzy, or they look fake, like overly detailed. Grass looks like a bunch of green worms waving around. The program I saw yesterday was on HD Theatre about Jay Leno disassembling a car for restoration. The car was white with some spray-painted areas in red. Those areas would go in and out of focus, as did the faces of the guys working. Nothing fast or high-speed, just random fuzzyness. This seemed to be the same regardless of which tv I was looking at. I'm not used to this... is this from the HD source, or the tv?

Was this fed with an OTA antenna signal or cable/satellite? Also some broadcast stations compress their main HD channel to run sub-channels so compression artifacts can vary. That's what I like about my V4100 Sony which btw is a 60 Hz refresh set, is the minimum blurring with details in motion, although there is some, at any normal viewing distance I don't notice it and I see the same thing when I go in the bedroom and look close at my low hours 1994 Sony KV-27V10 Trinitron with a Zenith DTV box so I think a lot of that is just the nature of DTV.