CED Performance-is it Supposed to Be This Bad? - Videokarma.org TV - Video

leadlike · #1 04-10-2009, 03:55 AM

One of my hobbies has been to pick up outmoded formats-and the RCA Selectavision CED discs are a favorite of mine. For the uninitiated, CEDs are not laserdiscs, but rather a vinyl disc that when played back used a needle to track the grooves in the disc. The relative capacitance of the recorded data on the disc worked to reproduce the picture and sound.

I have a base model RCA player, and I trot it out about every six months to keep it in shape. I even have a spare needle for it! My questions relate to improving the picture quality of this system. Today, while watching a disc, I got to thinking about what I would call the signature style of a CED produced picture, that is to say, a soft focus picture with flat colors and worst of all, a hail of blue purple static that can be very visible during darker scenes. While these things had probably the poorest picture ever in a home video format, I wonder if my player is showing its age. If anyone has any experience with these things, and any tips on improving picture quality, I would like to hear them.

And to anyone who would be interested in investing in their own system-be prepared for lots of skipping! I remember my Dad yelling at anyone who dared to stomp through the living room while he was dubbing a CED to VHS. All of his dubs skip, BTW. I was lucky enough to have a new needle and a still wrapped disc a couple of years back. Yep, skipped right out of the package. Still interested? Check out the website CED magic, pretty much the only place on the web with any real info on this format.

wilkes85 · #2 04-10-2009, 06:01 AM

I've never seen any in real life, but I've seen them on youtube. i totally want one! Such a bizarre, unique format.

Fred Sanford · #3 04-10-2009, 07:23 AM

A local AKer has one (ChillWolf) and he's gong to bring it over to put through its paces some day soon. I recently bought him some discs at a thrift, we'll see how it looks.

He recently took home one of my LD players & some LDs, I may already have him hooked on the upgrade path...

je

Arkay · #4 04-10-2009, 08:35 AM

I know very little about these, and have never seen one actually working, so I can't help you.

I recently saw a stack of those BIG cartridge tapes that look like gigantic compact cassettes, and was so tempted... dead historical formats are so much fun!

This CED seems even more interesting, with picture AND sound... but NO, no, no, I will NOT add another defunct format to the piles of gear. The Laserdiscs take up enough space. Enough is enough!

Forgive the (actually said with good humour) self-disciplinary rant.

Actually, I think the format looks fascinating. I would love to see one in operation one day. A format that perhaps was doomed from the start, esp. in the face of laser-based formats, but interesting nonetheless.

I would think that, given the mechanical challenges that faced even the development of CD-4 quad, making a complete AV system work well with a needle-based analog source would be a daunting task, indeed. I'm surprised that they got to work halfway-well, at all. I'd EXPECT jitters, static, etc... just from the nature of the thing.

This format seems really obscure. Can you tell us more about it, or recommend some links or source material to learn more?

veg-o-matic · #5 04-10-2009, 08:55 AM

They actually had an RCA CED player at the Goodwill last week. Didn't buy it, though.

veg

wilkes85 · #6 04-10-2009, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkay

I know very little about these, and have never seen one actually working, so I can't help you.

I recently saw a stack of those BIG cartridge tapes that look like gigantic compact cassettes, and was so tempted... dead historical formats are so much fun!

This CED seems even more interesting, with picture AND sound... but NO, no, no, I will NOT add another defunct format to the piles of gear. The Laserdiscs take up enough space. Enough is enough!

You mean those huge ass RCA sound tape cartridges? You should have bought them!! GO BACK AND GET THEM! lol

AnalogDigit · #7 04-10-2009, 09:13 AM

My brother bought a Realistic CED-1 CED videodisk back in 1982. Before that he owned a Sears CED player which was brand new, but returned it because it skipped so bad. The Realistic played the disk with hardly any skipping at all. I even bought an extra needle for the player. I do remember the colors being washed out and the soundtrack in mono not being too clear. I sold it on eBay close to 10 years ago with some movies for over $100.

Maybe to improve the picture quality, get one of those video correction black boxes that they used to sell at Radio Shack to try to improve picture quality. But in my opinion, the format had pretty poor picture quality compared to other video formats.

andy · #8 04-10-2009, 09:52 AM

000

leadlike · #9 04-10-2009, 10:11 AM

Analogdigit, that's funny about the sound-I remember that is all my dad liked about that format. He was convinced the sound quality was much better than VHS. Some selections (about one in every twenty I find) are in stereo. One of the few affordable ways to have stereo video in the early 80s. Stereo programs come in blue caddies, while mono were issued in white.

Arkay, How does it work? Well, CED magic explains it pretty well, but I could try: With an audio record, the needle run through the groove, and variations in the edge wall wiggle the needle, piezoelectrically generating your audio signal. The CED disc has a straight groove. The grooves are much smaller as the needle only keeps track of the video program and that is all. At the bottom of the groove are dash-shaped etchings. This is the video/sound info. The measure of capacitance between these tiny etchings and the needle create a resonant frequency within the player that can be decoded into a picture. The disc is enclosed in a big plastic sleeve, so you never see the actual disc. You stick the whole mess into your player and it spits the plastic shell back out into your hand.

The needle is carried along on a linear tracking arm, a heavy gantry-crane looking unit. A motor provides coarse tracking, bumping forward about every two minutes. The needle itself does the fine tracking, slowly bending inward as it tracks the groove. A pair of coils on either side of the needle measure this bend, and when it gets extreme enough, the coarse motor kicks in and moves the arm down the line a bit more. A potentiometer turns in time with the movement of the arm, which registers on the counter on the face of the machine.

I own the SJT-90, the basic RCA machine. From what I've read, this machine has all of the features of the SJT-100, but those extra buttons are blocked off, punishing those cheap folks that went with the '90.

matt_s78mn · #10 04-10-2009, 11:41 AM

I too enjoy playing around and impressing my friends with my collection of obscure formats. However, it's hard to impress anyone with my CED's as the static and skipping will just about drive ya nuts sometimes. A couple weeks ago I had a group of friends over for a party and we ended up watching the Monty Python and the Holy Grail CED. I have a collection of about 200 discs and a few of them were former rental - of which this is one - and it sure has a few bad spots... I don't know why but my SJT300 (which is my main machine) seems to have more trouble with skipping when the needle is toward the end of a side. I've also had trouble with skipping discs that were just out of the shrinkwrap, so it's gotta be just something that's inherent to the format. I've fixed up a few of these machines, and so have a good source of new load belts - Those of you who have done any work on these machines know how that main load belt has disentegrated into sticky black goo on pretty much every machine that you find. By the way, if anyone needs any specific parts, I've got a pile of non-working players down in the basement...

bgadow · #11 04-10-2009, 01:00 PM

I have a couple machines of my own-the old basic machine (SFT-100?) that seems to need the main drive belt, and a better machine (push button) that works when it wants to. I treated it to some new belts but it still skips too much and sometimes doesn't go at all. I pulled 3 SFT-100's out of my friend's TV shop. One was NOS, never opened! Sold that one on ebay for him. The other 2 are still sitting here while I decide what's best to do with them. One was apparently a demonstrator, in the box with all the materials, doesn't run. The other is with its torn up box, most of the materials still with it, but the machine is in pieces.

At best they are comparable to VHS, from what I've seen...but I've never made it through a whole disc without problems. Really sad that RCA had to end up with these. I also agree that CED Magic is well worth the visit-tons of great information.

I also have some of those "full-size" cassettes, but no player. Someday one will turn up. Fun to play with such old formats.

***Eric H*** · #12 04-10-2009, 01:30 PM

I was working in an Electronics store when these came out, it was a pretty big deal at the time and they set up one of the machines to demo as soon as they got it.

We were all quite stunned and disappointed at how poorly they worked considering the hype and money RCA had put into them.
The store also sold Laser Discs & VCR's and I think we were expecting the new format to be competitive with that, it wasn't even close.

winters860 · #13 04-10-2009, 01:49 PM

I saw a player at the thrift store with dozens of movies, but was quickly disappointed to see that it was priced at (IIRC) $80 and $10 a movie. When I went back the next week, they were gone.

dr*audio · #14 04-10-2009, 02:16 PM

I went to a service workshop put on by RCA when these came out. The performance of these when new was mediocre, and inside they are a Rube Goldberg contraption. I remember wondering why RCA wasted their time on this junk.

Indian Head · #15 04-10-2009, 02:47 PM

Between the two of us we have 3 CED players (1 basic RCA model, its Zenith equivalent, and an RCA stereo model), and about 75 titles!

Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time...especially when a disc would cost $20 and the same movie on VHS was $90.

We drag it out once in a while for fun. Maybe "fun" isn't the right word. Early on with a new disc, the images seemed pretty good, and some movies had a crispness that VHS didn't have at the time (maybe never really had). But before too long, the more times that disc was slipped in and out of its caddy, dirt would stick to the oily surface of the disc and the skips would begin. Sometimes, the dirt gets stuck on the needle and the entire picture becomes a scrambled mess which might...just might...be corrected by pulling out and re-inserting the disc.

Good times, good times.