1960s vintage 9" GE B & W Portable TV has no Picture

[Captainclock]

Originally Posted by Gregb

By the sounds of it that set and my Hotpoint are one in the same. Those are the tubes my Hotpoint uses as well. I just have a few finishing touches and mine will be done.

Gregb

That makes sense because Hotpoint was owned by GE for many years before it became a Subsidiary of Whirlpool in the 1980s.

[Captainclock]

Originally Posted by zeno

Works then dont....... Do some light tapping around.
Probably a bad tube or PC connection. It would be better
to get it somewhat running 1st. That way you can test
as you go when recapping. Two big advantages:
If you make a mistake there isnt much to check. Also if
you change a cap & it makes a big change for the good
you file it in your mind for future use.

73 Zeno

Well what's weird is that the pitcure tube is definitely working as the filaments are glowing nice and bright like they're supposed to be, but for some reason the tube just isn't wanting to develop a nice bright and even picture for some reason which tells me that somehow the B+ just isn't high enough to bring the picture tube up to its proper brightness and screen size, either that or the H-V circuitry is in need of a recap as well as the B+ circuitry.

I've heard mentioned in here several times about an "ion trap" which can get moved and cause trouble with the picture tube, my question is, what the heck is the "ion trap" and where is it at in the TV, and how does one go about readjusting the "ion trap"?

Another question that's slightly off topic but not really, and has to do with the tuner on this TV and others like it I've seen from the same time period, and that is, why is it that a lowly portable tabletop TV set like mine and or like the old Philco Predictas have built-in UHF Tuners in them but yet every single full-sized "high end" console I've seen from the same time period only had a VHF Only tuner in them with no built-in UHF Tuner in them?
Was there something about the portable/tabletop units that made them easier to install built-in UHF Tuners in them than the giant Consoles? Or was it something else? I just think its weird that a considerably lower-end TV would have Higher-end features than a Higher-end TV of the day would have.

[zeno]

The sets probably were sold in a UHF area or maybe
were latter converted with kits.
Some places like Hartford Conn. were most UHF. Between
NYC, Providence & Boston there was only #3 & #8 left.
All the newer stations had to go on UHF.
So sets sold there usually had UHF tuners. In 1964 all
sets built to be sold in the US had to get UHF.
An interesting early UHF promo for Zenith UHF here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lu5jqXaHRE

I will leave the ion trap to others. I know but its not my era
so I may get something wrong !

73 Zeno

[dieseljeep]

Originally Posted by Gregb

By the sounds of it that set and my Hotpoint are one in the same. Those are the tubes my Hotpoint uses as well. I just have a few finishing touches and mine will be done.

Gregb

GE seemed to market some sets under the Hotpoint brand from 1957 to 1960. The model numbers were also the same.
There was a Hotpoint plant in West Milwaukee, dishwasher and disposal products. It was next to the GE med systems complex.
AFAIK, GE never sold the Hotpoint line. They were still being built in Louisville, KY and probably Mexico.
There was news that GE was selling their appliance line to Electrolux. IDK if it ever transpired.

[dieseljeep]

Originally Posted by zeno

The sets probably were sold in a UHF area or maybe
were latter converted with kits.
Some places like Hartford Conn. were most UHF. Between
NYC, Providence & Boston there was only #3 & #8 left.
All the newer stations had to go on UHF.
So sets sold there usually had UHF tuners. In 1964 all
sets built to be sold in the US had to get UHF.
An interesting early UHF promo for Zenith UHF here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lu5jqXaHRE

I will leave the ion trap to others. I know but its not my era
so I may get something wrong !

73 Zeno

Milwaukee has been a UHF town from early on, but I never saw a 9" GE or a 8" RCA with a UHF tuner. I know the 9T Ge was available with UHF, per the service manual. It used a small transformer to power the heater for the 6AF4, so it was probably factory.
BTW, if the ion trap was never moved, don't move it for now, until you establish reliable high voltage. If it has to be removed for disassembly, mark the trap and the CRT neck with a Sharpie marker so it can be replaced in the exact same position. Once the set is working well, you can try to adjust it for maximum brightness, but it might not be needed. Just a bit CW or CCW.

[Captainclock]

Originally Posted by dieseljeep

Milwaukee has been a UHF town from early on, but I never saw a 9" GE or a 8" RCA with a UHF tuner. I know the 9T Ge was available with UHF, per the service manual. It used a small transformer to power the heater for the 6AF4, so it was probably factory.
BTW, if the ion trap was never moved, don't move it for now, until you establish reliable high voltage. If it has to be removed for disassembly, mark the trap and the CRT neck with a Sharpie marker so it can be replaced in the exact same position. Once the set is working well, you can try to adjust it for maximum brightness, but it might not be needed. Just a bit CW or CCW.

OK, well for right now I'll definitely try to replace any of the old capacitors in the unit first and see if that helps any with bringing back the picture any or helping with making the H-V section more reliable as it seems that the H-V section of the TV is somehow affected by me hitting the TV's cabinet when its assembled which is more than likely due to failing caps, in the TV.

What do you suggest as far as Capacitors to use in this TV set? I'm wondering because I know these sets used sometimes 1kV capacitors in them and 1kV caps aren't readily available anymore not even on most of your antique electronics restoration websites and even if they are they're quite spendy.

[Eric H]

I just use the 630 volt yellow caps from http://justradios.com
I don't recall any caps over 600 volts in this set but there may be one or two.

The Electrolytic can can be replaced by individual caps, they can be relocated closer to their connection point if it makes it easier.

The Horizontal AFC diode looks like a tiny electrolytic on the PC board, I've replaced it using a pair of common Silicon diodes.

Carefully remove the connector from the base of the CRT and check the pin where the HV goes in, it'll be the pin that's all by itself, sometimes it corrodes or the solder goes bad.

[Captainclock]

Originally Posted by Eric H

I just use the 630 volt yellow caps from http://justradios.com
I don't recall any caps over 600 volts in this set but there may be one or two.

The Electrolytic can can be replaced by individual caps, they can be relocated closer to their connection point if it makes it easier.

The Horizontal AFC diode looks like a tiny electrolytic on the PC board, I've replaced it using a pair of common Silicon diodes.

Carefully remove the connector from the base of the CRT and check the pin where the HV goes in, it'll be the pin that's all by itself, sometimes it corrodes or the solder goes bad.

OK well I have some pictures now of the Unit and of the picture its giving off, maybe there's a clue as to what's wrong with it and what it needs by looking at the picture, I didn't have anything hooked up to the TV set when I took the picture it was just white noise.

[zeno]

It has a vertical problem or the vert is way out of
adjustment. Start with the vert osc / output tubes.
It may be all in one tube. Do not believe the checker 100%.
They lie almost as much as a politician. If not a tube recap JUST
the vertical one cap at a time followed by a test. Dont change
disc caps unless cracked or burned. They almost never go.
Also check resistor values.

I cant tell but if you have snow & a waterfall sound from audio
it will probably work to some extent. At this point the CRT seems fair,
probably as good as you will find for what it is.

73 Zeno

[OvenMaster]

Originally Posted by dieseljeep

There was news that GE was selling their appliance line to Electrolux. IDK if it ever transpired.

Uncle Sam is holding this deal up for antitrust reasons. If it went through, there'd only be two major appliance makers in the US.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...staff-ibky1vil
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0PB5RM20150701

[Captainclock]

Originally Posted by zeno

It has a vertical problem or the vert is way out of
adjustment. Start with the vert osc / output tubes.
It may be all in one tube. Do not believe the checker 100%.
They lie almost as much as a politician. If not a tube recap JUST
the vertical one cap at a time followed by a test. Dont change
disc caps unless cracked or burned. They almost never go.
Also check resistor values.

I cant tell but if you have snow & a waterfall sound from audio
it will probably work to some extent. At this point the CRT seems fair,
probably as good as you will find for what it is.

73 Zeno

It does have the "snow and waterfall" sound coming out of the speakers and I had a converter box hooked up to it and it was receiving audio and video loud and clear just the picture was scrunched like you see in the picture and the vertical and horizontal hold was being screwy.
For some reason when I would try to adjust the vertical or horizontal hold knobs it would darken the screen if I went too far to the left or right with the knobs (it was more pronounced with the Horizontal Hold Adjustment than the Vertical Hold Adjustment.)

[Captainclock]

Originally Posted by OvenMaster

Uncle Sam is holding this deal up for antitrust reasons. If it went through, there'd only be two major appliance makers in the US.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...staff-ibky1vil
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0PB5RM20150701

Yeah I heard about that as well, but seeing as corporate mergers and takeovers is what made this country "great" in the first place (that's why we don't have any American TV or Radio manufacturers left anymore because of Richard Nixon and his "foreign trade" agreements he signed into law back in the 1970s which paved the way for foreign companies and investors to come in and basically buy out every single American Manufacturing company and send their manufacturing overseas...) Its kind of one of those things that if Congress and the house of representatives would of stood up for the people and stood up against Nixon and his wreckless trade policies I think our country would of still had its own respectable manufacturing sector and we wouldn't of become such an import dependant country like we are now.

[Captainclock]

Well I've got a general List of all of the caps I need for the TV's recap job, it needs about 10 capacitors replaced of which 7 of the caps are Cornell-Dubilier's Equivalent to the Good-All caps that were used in the late 50s early 60s PCB tube radios made by companies like Arvin and GE where the Caps are Radial Lead Caps mounted to the circuit board and the rest are either electrolytic or some other brand of capacitor that looks like a Good-All Cap except its brown and not black...

Now I'm just wondering how I might get the HV/Horizontal Amp/Vertical Amp board out to recap it, its attached to the base of the TV with a few screws but I don't want to accidentally break some wires loose...

Any ideas?

[DavGoodlin]

My Hotpoint version of this set has not been on the bench yet. It is disassembled and I will look at it.
I hate to recap in tight quarters and find that freeing a PC board enough that you have full access to both sides for soldering and the ever-important inspection afterward works best.

This sounds like alot of trouble but it pays off when you have full access to test resistors replace parts.
GE sets, especially this one, have the BARE MINIMUM of parts to comprise a functioning circuit, so every part counts!

You may want to take some photos of the PCB first.
Then get some electrician's numbered cloth strips or "Brady tags" or similar by Thomas & Betts.
These are one one-inch long by 1/8" wide, white with about 6 black numbers across the length.

You take one of the numbers and put it on the PCB next to the stake on the PCB and wrap the rest around a wire.
Take another picture and start cutting wires enough to get it free.

[Captainclock]

Originally Posted by DavGoodlin

My Hotpoint version of this set has not been on the bench yet. It is disassembled and I will look at it.
I hate to recap in tight quarters and find that freeing a PC board enough that you have full access to both sides for soldering and the ever-important inspection afterward works best.

This sounds like alot of trouble but it pays off when you have full access to test resistors replace parts.
GE sets, especially this one, have the BARE MINIMUM of parts to comprise a functioning circuit, so every part counts!

You may want to take some photos of the PCB first.
Then get some electrician's numbered cloth strips or "Brady tags" or similar by Thomas & Betts.
These are one one-inch long by 1/8" wide, white with about 6 black numbers across the length.

You take one of the numbers and put it on the PCB next to the stake on the PCB and wrap the rest around a wire.
Take another picture and start cutting wires enough to get it free.

Sounds like a lot of work, especially the marking and cutting of wires to get the PCB out to service it with my luck I would either cut too little or too much or too much wire and wouldn't be able to wire it back together again and I've never heard of "Brady Tags" before...