WHY so few "other brands' left out there?( Admiral, Sylvania , Philco, etc)

[ChrisW6ATV]

I am an odd combination here: A TV technician (for over 30 years so far) who has repaired hundreds of Sony sets (monitors, actually), and who would still to this day never buy anything BUT a Sony for a new CRT display (if we even still could do so!).

Trinitron CRTs just plain beat everything else by a mile, in all of the years I ever compared color CRT displays, from 1979 when I bought my first, through the 2000s when I liked the widescreen HD Sony sets but had moved on to rear-projection sets (which were also Sony CRT sets).

Back to the original subject of this topic, more or less: When Sylvania was advertising their "Supersets" and claiming they beat all others-including Sony-in comparisons, I never did go and see how those sets really did look. Are there very many "Supersets" still around, compared to the number of Sony sets still in existence? Do any of you have opinions on their quality at the time?

[jstout66]

I remember the ad, which I LOVED. "Ahhhh Sylvania beat Sony AGAIN?"
I DO have story when they were new. In the 79-81 time period, we sold Philco, which was a rebadged Sylvania. We were a Zenith dealer, and had to carry a secondary brand so as not to lose a sale (Zenith's were about the most expensive set at the time). We had carried a few other secondary brands over the years, and we would not fire them up next to a Zenith, because the Zenith picture would make the set look like crap, no matter how well adjusted it was. When we got those rebadged Sylvania's we discovered NOT to fire em up side by side, because that was the only set I ever saw that WOULD look as good, if not better than a CC2. It's because like the Sylvania's, they used that dark faced tube. However, as most have us have discovered, that tube was NOT long lasting. It averaged about a 5 year life span. A Trinitron tube you could get about 10 years. There are exceptions to the above, and I think people bag on Sony ( me included) because for the premium price you paid, one would think the tube would have lasted longer, but I agree with you somewhat... a Sony of that era out of the box looked fantastic, but I don't think the picture was any better than a Zenith Chromacolor out of the box.

[zeno]

Originally Posted by jstout66

I remember the ad, which I LOVED. "Ahhhh Sylvania beat Sony AGAIN?"
I DO have story when they were new. In the 79-81 time period, we sold Philco, which was a rebadged Sylvania. We were a Zenith dealer, and had to carry a secondary brand so as not to lose a sale (Zenith's were about the most expensive set at the time). We had carried a few other secondary brands over the years, and we would not fire them up next to a Zenith, because the Zenith picture would make the set look like crap, no matter how well adjusted it was. When we got those rebadged Sylvania's we discovered NOT to fire em up side by side, because that was the only set I ever saw that WOULD look as good, if not better than a CC2. It's because like the Sylvania's, they used that dark faced tube. However, as most have us have discovered, that tube was NOT long lasting. It averaged about a 5 year life span. A Trinitron tube you could get about 10 years. There are exceptions to the above, and I think people bag on Sony ( me included) because for the premium price you paid, one would think the tube would have lasted longer, but I agree with you somewhat... a Sony of that era out of the box looked fantastic, but I don't think the picture was any better than a Zenith Chromacolor out of the box.

I will comment on the GT-Matics then Super Sets. Long time ago
so dont hold me to dates etc.
GT matics were abt 1974. There were 2 chassii a non modular E08 IIRC
& a 3 board job with delta guns for top of line 19" & 25". I believe they
were the first sets with a countdown ckt for hoz & vert thus eliminating
hoz & vert holds. You could get the "Dark Light" CRT in better models
from 13" - 25". The pix could be spectacular, if a scene was black its
WAS BLACK not grey. . Its all in the face coatings & I think how hard they drove them as said. The delta jugs didnt last as long as the in lines on the cheaper sets, I would guess because the deltas were old designs
being run at there limits. All & all a very good set & 10% less
than Zenith & RCA, 20% less than Sony, a break even......
Trade names like System 3, Colortrac, etc went on sets that had a
list of "musts" to get the name. IIRC the Super Set was an updated GT-Matic. It probably "needed" RAT tuning, comb filter, dark-light
CRT etc to earn the name.
As for pix quality its mostly personal taste then actual specs.
I have had folks that hated there new sets pix even though the
old set had a near dead CRT. We would have to back them way off
& make them look crappy.

73 Zeno

[jstout66]

Zeno, You brought back a memory I forgot about. Customers getting used to a crappy set/CRT. We'd get a set in for repair, and on occasion, do a "tune-up". We could get that set looking about like it did when new, and we had a few people that complained! Another memory... My grandpa always carried a roll of paper towels and Windex in the service van. You'd be surprised on some of the calls we'd get for a dark or blurry picture were cured by cleaning the tube. (mainly smokers sets)

[Dan Starnes]

I grew up with Admiral tv's and appliances. Remember being shocked there were other brands when I was old enough to realize. I have one great working mid 50's Admiral floor model and 2 great halo Sylvania's.

[ChrisW6ATV]

Originally Posted by jstout66

I agree with you somewhat... a Sony of that era out of the box looked fantastic, but I don't think the picture was any better than a Zenith Chromacolor out of the box.

I was trying to think of how to describe what I saw that set Sony sets apart from all of the American-brand sets I saw in the late 1970s or early 1980s, including Zeniths, and here it is: Sony sets appeared to have their chassis better matched to their picture tubes, by tightly controlling their available adjustments. If I imagine the full range of a chassis or circuit's ability to drive a CRT, good or not-so-good, then Sony sets had contrast/picture adjustments that could drive their CRTs from, say, 20% to 60% of their maximum output (and they looked good in that full range, time after time). Other brands could be adjusted for 10% to 90% of their CRT's maximum output-but with a CRT and chassis that were only good up to 50% of that output. So, I saw a LOT of American-brand TV sets with over-driven CRTs with out-of-focus highlights, and blooming/poor high-voltage regulation from scene to scene. And again, I saw this over and over again. So, maybe those sets were capable of excellent pictures if adjusted right, but few people (or stores?) seemed to ever do that or to be capable of doing so.

[sampson159]

oh,those sylvanias!those were great days.the first really excellent sylvania was the d16 chassis.it had a huge tuner setup.after that came the great slide control set.the picture was fantastic and those sets were well built and easy to maintain.crts were 1st rate.as good as a chromacolor set anyday.then came the ss chassis sets with the 25vdmp22 crt.this produced the best picture.didnt last long though.4-5 years and it was history.we replaced with zenith crts and not one came back.i loved those sets and owned many of them.my favorite was a e45 chassis superset with electronic tuner.the crt was from a philco hybrid that made one hell of a picture.i currently own a e48 chassis with the 25vdmp22.it was purchased in late 1978 and has never been repaired.
got it at an estate sale.i watch it sparingly.the crt is excellent.the chromocolor sets are the overall best but the sylvanias of that era were very close in picture quality.

[davet753]

In the 90's, I sold Zenith, Quasar (made by Panasonic), Crosley (made by Magnavox), and a smattering of Sharp and Magnavox. In side-by-side comparisons on the sales floor, Zenith always seemed to edge out all the rest.

We serviced all brands, so there's not too much that didn't come across our bench. I remember some of the sets with the best pictures were usually either Zenith or Sylvania super-sets.

Sony sets were usually either really good, or really bad as far as picture quality went. Personally, I never wanted one because they were such a pain to troubleshoot and get parts for.

[KentTeffeteller]

On 17" and smaller I have long time been a Sony man, 19" and larger a Zenith Chromacolor II man. The Zenith sets were more service friendly and better supported than the Sonys were. And easier serviced when they had issues. Sylvania Supersets new were nice, but they seemed to be more stressed and less conservative circuit designs. Which meant they lasted shorter lifespans as daily watchers. They did make nice pictures however. My grandmother was for many years a Zenith diehard on TV sets. Her last set, a Sanyo which lasted 32 years. Which got replaced by a used CRT Trinitron I scored cheap.

[zenith2134]

As much as I love Zeniths, from the early tube-chassis Chromacolors to the CC-II and System 3s, I feel that many collectors turn their noses up at the solid state RCA TVs. I have had a fair amount of quality RCA products from the 70s and 80s, which today are getting as rare as a color Admiral or Motorola in my opinion. Chassis such as the CTC-97, CTC-108, CTC-117, CTC-121 and 130, were all nice TVs in their highest-end incarnations. Sure, a lot of repairs were well-documented as they aged, but we're in 2014 now & these are about 30 years old or so...

[rca2000]

I NOT really one of them..

I too have a number of RCA sets--both BW and color, including a fair number of earlier SS and 70's SS sets too. 2-ctc-44 sets, 2 CTC-47 sets, a couple of CTC-67 sets, at least one mid 70's RCA 19" "hotel style" SS set, probably a ctc 71 or 76, a CTC 62 or 72, One CTC-74 NON DA set, A CTC-40 combo set--and later ones, one Cold version of the CTC-130, a CTC-133 console, 2 ctc-131 "box" type sets,.

I do NOT really like most of the "hot" RCA sets, like the chassis #'s you mentioned and also do not like the CTC-140, 146, 149,157,159 or ANY of those style sets, MANY of which I have worked on in the past. They nearly ALWAYS have good tubes though.

I am NOT really 'brand loyal" though I do have a soft spot for Zenith and RCA. I am more "design loyal', and have ALWAYS steered clear of hot chassis sets-(including radios, phonos and stereos), -though today--I WILL often grab one, if it is older and rarer, even if I personally do not want it--someone else might.

[Jon A.]

Originally Posted by sampson159

oh,those sylvanias!those were great days.the first really excellent sylvania was the d16 chassis.it had a huge tuner setup.after that came the great slide control set.the picture was fantastic and those sets were well built and easy to maintain.crts were 1st rate.as good as a chromacolor set anyday.then came the ss chassis sets with the 25vdmp22 crt.this produced the best picture.didnt last long though.4-5 years and it was history.we replaced with zenith crts and not one came back.i loved those sets and owned many of them.my favorite was a e45 chassis superset with electronic tuner.the crt was from a philco hybrid that made one hell of a picture.i currently own a e48 chassis with the 25vdmp22.it was purchased in late 1978 and has never been repaired.
got it at an estate sale.i watch it sparingly.the crt is excellent.the chromocolor sets are the overall best but the sylvanias of that era were very close in picture quality.

Did all of the SS Sylvanias from the 70s use the 25VDMP22?

[sampson159]

not all.some ss sets used the 25vaqp22.the higher end was the25vdmp22.i liked the way that crt looked but they had a short life span.we stocked vdc replacement crts and plenty of zenith 25v tubes.we offered rebuilds for 99.00 and used for 69.00.never had a used crt come back.the earlier 25vaqp22 had a very long life.some of those lasted 20-25 years.

[Jon A.]

Looks like some later models also used the 25VEXP22 or the 25VCZP22. Check out the first pic in this thread:

http://videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=259357

25VDMP22 jumped right out at me, I didn't notice the others until just now.

[sampson159]

the later sets,e41 and e45 use the 25vczp22 and 25exp22 picture tubes.they seemed to hold up much longer than the 25vdmp22.did you ever get this set working properly?if so,post pictures