Black and white tv picture tubes

[maxhifi]

It seems like every old black and white tv I come across has a worn our CRT with bad contrast and focus and brightness, and buzz in the sound. I want to have a great one, with excellent dynamic range between the blackest black and the brightest white, with razor sharp focus, and no annoying buzz in the sound.

Is this too much to ask? Does a quality black and white tv look like a good colour tv with the colour turned all the way down, or is it always as inferior as the portables I have? I've actually never seen a good one, but my exposure is limited. I entered the world when colour was common and my family's first tv was a colour tube RCA from the early 70s. To this day I remember it as having a fantastic picture. Perhaps I have to find a console rather than the low end portables I have?

I know it's been discussed many times what colour sets have the best picture, but how about black and white? Ideally I would like to track down a portable, from the mid 60s, with exceptional picture quality. Maybe it's just a matter of finding one which hasn't been watched to death.

[andy]

...

[maxhifi]

Hmm that actually makes a whole lot of sense. DC restoration can be Added but what to do about bad focus ?

[zeno]

In theory a B&W will look better than an older color TV and
in the olden days they can. They would always be brighter.
Old tin can Zenith 19" from the early to mid 60's can give a
spectacular pix & some have a real focus. Even old GE's
could look very good despite the way they were built. The
trick is to find a set that has a strong CRT & not loaded with
slightly off components & tubes. Stick with RCA & Zenith, as
a rule they they were better new. Others varied a lot. When
repairing always aim at getting a good strong no signal snow.
Should be fine dots with no streaking or ghost. Dont trust
tube checkers, use a known new brand name tube to sub.
Last use in a room that is not heavily lit or have much sunlight.
Turn the bright down & it will look much better.
Audio buzz was common. Most the time either the AGC was
too high to make up for bad gain & poor contrast or the
audio detector (quad) coil needs a small tweak < 1/2 turn.

73 Zeno

[maxhifi]

Zeno,

Thank you... That basically narrows down what I should keep my eyes open for very nicely. Basically an RCA or Zenith with a low hours picture tube. Come to
Think of it I have seen excellent black and white performance on CCTV monitors, I just
Haven't been lucky enough to find an old TV in good enough condition. I was
Never sure if it was that I am expecting too much, or if I just have lousy worn out TV sets.

-Max

[andy]

...

[maxhifi]

I am aware of the TVs from the 40s which have DC restoration, however using an RCA 630 as a daily driver is impractical for a lot of reasons. Not the least of which in my area TV simply didn't exist until the early 50s, which makes 40s sets completely non existent.

When I was restoring an RCA 8 inch portable from 1957, the lack of DC restoration was driving me crazy, but I eventually decided that the screen size and the dim picture of the non-aluminized tube made the TV into more of a curiosity than something I will use all the time. It's got to be one of the few TV sets with a triode used as the audio power amplifier though. It shows how much changed in how few years when RCA went from making that work of art to slapping their name on the crummy Sharp portable I posted in another thread recently.

I kind of get the impression that anyone wanting to spend serious money on a TV went with colour after some arbitrary point in time, and that's why the black and white set engineering went more towards optimizing price than performance - kind of like how AM radio sounds terrible in all new cars, but has the potential to sound quite good with a bit of effort. This is why I posted the thread to begin with, I wanted to figure out if the black and white TVs I have are simply worn out, or if I really am expecting too much from black and white TV in general.

My conclusion is I need to find an early 60s RCA or Zenith with a good picture tube, electrically restore it, and then enjoy life in black and white.

[Electronic M]

Most Portable monochrome sets are low quality...Some Zeniths and Setchell-Carlson portables are exceptions to the rule. If you want a really good monochrome set go with a console from one of the better brands RCA, Zenith, Dumont, Setchell-Carlson, etc.

Most sets have the tendency to buzz on modern video graphics. Zeniths tend to buzz more than some brands, but it can be reduced.

[maxhifi]

Originally Posted by Electronic M

Most Portable monochrome sets are low quality...Some Zeniths and Setchell-Carlson portables are exceptions to the rule. If you want a really good monochrome set go with a console from one of the better brands RCA, Zenith, Dumont, Setchell-Carlson, etc.

Most sets have the tendency to buzz on modern video graphics. Zeniths tend to buzz more than some brands, but it can be reduced.

Hmm console it is then. I was afraid of that, table top sets are easier to accommodate. Subjectively, What's the best black and white picture from your collection?

[zeno]

http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=261532

Look for one of these or a similar one. As you can see it gives plenty
of contrast & very good blacks. There are a lot of survivors and
they are fun to work on. Most are found with good CRT's and
needing little work. Even I would get one if I spotted one and I
swore I would only be an arm chair collector.
S-C's were great but rare. They were popular with schools.
Motorola made nice hand wired sets but most used encapsulated
modules. If you ever needed one good luck !
But if the price is right like free take anything just to tinker & learn.

73 Zeno

[Carmine]

A Zenith of this era is both portable and makes a very good picture (reduced in quality by a cheap cell phone).

[maxhifi]

That Zenith looks fantastic - does it have a power transformer ?

[maxhifi]

Originally Posted by zeno

http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=261532

Look for one of these or a similar one. As you can see it gives plenty
of contrast & very good blacks. There are a lot of survivors and
they are fun to work on. Most are found with good CRT's and
needing little work. Even I would get one if I spotted one and I
swore I would only be an arm chair collector.
S-C's were great but rare. They were popular with schools.
Motorola made nice hand wired sets but most used encapsulated
modules. If you ever needed one good luck !
But if the price is right like free take anything just to tinker & learn.

73 Zeno

I think this zenith is miles ahead of my admiral or
Sharp in picture quality. I really doubt
I will find one here in Canada but This summer I am taking a trip down the west coast to Los Angeles, I think I will put a wanted ad on the classifieds and see if anything Comes up. I am still not
Ruling out a similar RCA.

[dieseljeep]

Originally Posted by maxhifi

That Zenith looks fantastic - does it have a power transformer ?

The set was the TOTL model, in a non-remote Zenith B/W model. It looks like a low hours set by the picture quality.
It definitely is a transformer powered chassis. It, probably has the GVG tuner, as well. An unbeatable combination.

[zeno]

What a trip down memory lane !
For the newbies a GVG or SGVG ( Super Gold Video Guard ) tuner was a Zenith built tuner with gold contacts. Once you have seen one you can spot one in a second, it had a different shape than any others. Most other
tuners were built by Oak & S-T also RCA built most of there own.
Always used on top of line ( TOTL) Zeniths & when combined with
a 6BZ6 IF strip it was WITHOUT question the best in sensitivity
& selectivity. And you could repair it instead of sending it out
to a rebuilder.
It always amazed me that Zenith could build a set as high a quality and
stay in business. I guess thats why I am a radicalized Zenith lover,
as good as some old TV's were built from the 60's-80's Zeniths are
the survivors more than any other. Anyone remember the old commercial
" NO PRODUCTION SHORTCUTS HERE " ? True...........

73 & GB Zeno