the next big problem for collectors of bpc sets.brittle plastics.

[Sandy G]

I think in a lot of cases, it was a combination of both using cheaper plastics-More regrind, less virgin, & the fact some of the "Good Stuff" had been outlawed by the EPA. We ran into that in the printing industry- Tolulene was used by the tankcar loads for ages-it was a GREAT solvent, dried quickly, etc. It was also HIGHLY flammable-They used to put it in gasoline as an octane booster-and VERY carcinogenic, so they said. It also gave cigarettes a distinctive flavor-one that the tobacco companies worked HARD to recapture for years after it was outlawed.

[ctc17]

Imagine a modern car 50 years from now.....

[Sandy G]

A lot of cars built after 1985 or so might be "grounded" because of all the computer controlled gizmos & stuff. Also, I have a friend who worked for Bendix, they do a LOT of subcontracting for car cos, he said that after demand for a certain item drops below X units, they not only stop producing it, the tooling is re-cycled/shit-canned...So, in 2055, yr mamaw's 35K mile 1998 Caddy creampuff that you've loved all these years, might NOT be able to run-at least not w/all the little doohickeys still working...

[marty59]

Yea Sandy, I also like to think of that as "planned obsolence".

[ctc17]

Originally Posted by Sandy G

A lot of cars built after 1985 or so might be "grounded" because of all the computer controlled gizmos & stuff. Also, I have a friend who worked for Bendix, they do a LOT of subcontracting for car cos, he said that after demand for a certain item drops below X units, they not only stop producing it, the tooling is re-cycled/shit-canned...So, in 2055, yr mamaw's 35K mile 1998 Caddy creampuff that you've loved all these years, might NOT be able to run-at least not w/all the little doohickeys still working...

The tin whisker problem and flash memory life cycle issues will ensure those cars dont run.
Not saying it cant be done, look at the old rca stuff. The boards get crispy on heavy use sets but they survive.
Can you imagine all the toxic gasses all this petroleum based crap releases as it decomposes..? No wonder cancer had gone up 3 fold in the past 10 years. Everyones house is a toxic fishtank because of cheap disposable junk.

[compucat]

Originally Posted by marty59

Answer, yes. Remember cars built in the 80's (mostly) where you would see plastic trim parts degrade and discolor? The more non virgin plastic (reground) that is used in the mix, the more unstable the life of the plastic will be.

Re-used plastic originates from the runners used in the molds and those pieces are seperated and sent back into the grinder machine and then mixed with new pellets to be liquified and extruded (injected) into the mold. Cabinet pieces, bad runs, etc. all go back into the mix. Some perchantage of regrind is acceptable but there are limits.

As with anything, plastics will age and outgas just like most everything else, some do better than others.

I remember cars, electronics and nearly everything else went through a serious quality slump during the 80s. That is when the disposable mentality really started taking hold.

[Sandy G]

Originally Posted by ctc17

The tin whisker problem and flash memory life cycle issues will ensure those cars dont run.
Not saying it cant be done, look at the old rca stuff. The boards get crispy on heavy use sets but they survive.
Can you imagine all the toxic gasses all this petroleum based crap releases as it decomposes..? No wonder cancer had gone up 3 fold in the past 10 years. Everyones house is a toxic fishtank because of cheap disposable junk.

Ayup...You know that horrible "smoke" that gets on the inside of yr car windows ? That's stuff bein' released by all the plastics, vinyls, adhesives, etc as they age/deteriorate...

[freakaftr8]

I'm starting to see problems with the plastics on Philips plasma tv's in where the mounts that hold the pdp panels into the plastic casing. The end result is the panel falling into the casing of the tv severing the lower buffer ribbon cables on the screen and junking the panel because these ribbons are fused into the glass. The plastics get brittle from the excessive heat they put out and causes the screw mounts to break. The plastics get yellowed. I've seen the Vizios starting to do this areound where the back screws to the casing too. Yep even the plasmas are starting to become brittle.

[compu_85]

Originally Posted by Sandy G

A lot of cars built after 1985 or so might be "grounded" because of all the computer controlled gizmos & stuff.

All the gizmos still work on my 20 year old Benz... we'll see where we sit in another 20 years I did have to replace an electrolytic cap in the dome lamp timer.

-J

[kx250rider]

Originally Posted by brokenbroken

I've run into the brittle plastic problem with a lot of the 90's Panasonic sets. We have removed several of them from customers homes for an update or because the set failed and have had them just about fall apart in our hands. Some of them barely made it out of the house and into the van.

I forgot about those... The 19" late 80s-early 90s Panasonics and Quasars did that BIGTIME with the backs. I have a scar on my leg where the whole cabinet basically fell to powder, and jammed a sharp piece of powdery black plastic into my shin. I should have known, because the black plastic had turned brown in places, and stank.

WARNING: This problem includes the rare and collectible 1.5" Panasonic CT-101 color set. I have one that was in mint condition, until I went to slide the battery case open. The whole side of the cabinet crumbled away, and put off a horrible stench. I have another one, which WILL do that if I dare touch it. Now it's in the box safely, but I can't enjoy having it if I want it to stay in 1 piece, and eventually it'll probably fall apart inside the box

Back to Sonys, I have a KX-2501, which has a wood cabinet with plastic back. I went to push it farther back onto a shelf from it's side (one hand on the side of the cabinet, and one hand on the side of the back), and my hand went right through the plastic with barely any force. Now you can blow on it and pieces fall off.

Charles

[Sandy G]

Yeah, I have 2 of those CT-101s..You'd think, since they were sorta Panasonic's "Showcase" product, they'd spent more than 2 cents on the cases...One of mine, the case is toast, the other one is OK, but its NEVER fit together very well. Just very "Cheap & Shoddy"...And one of 'em I bought new in '84, IIRC, the sucka was $350...For that kinda money, it should have had a better case. Metal ? (grin)

[Electronic M]

Perhaps someone will make repro cases for those little panasonics not too far down the road.

[colorfixer]

The plastic decomposition issue has to have something to do with the environment. I have a PC-101 (Canadian version of CT-101) and the case is still 100%: neither cracking nor brittle.

There is a solution to yellowing plastics: http://retr0bright.wikispaces.com/

[Kiwick]

interestingly the plastic used in virtually all European sets (including UK built sonys, Panasonics, Toshibas...) seems to last forever.

The only case of rotting plastic i saw in my life was a vintage 60s Italian made electric clothes brush, it belonged to my grandma and was still perfect in the mid 90s, she kept it in a drawer in her bedroom, about 2 years ago she gave it to me to fix as it didn't work anymore...

I was horrified to see the whole plastic shell deformed, crackled and covered in a salt-like crystalline stuff, it smelled weird, somewhat like fresh fiberglass... no wonder it quit working, the motor inside was incredibly rusty and copper parts had incredible verdigris growth on them and was seized solid...

Since it was unsalvageable, i decided to have some fun, i plugged it to burn out the motor... as soon as it got hot the rotten plastic caught fire and flash-burned, oddly part of it melted, part of it just charred leaving a crispy black "ghost" of the original plastic shell.

[rcaman]

Originally Posted by freakaftr8

I'm starting to see problems with the plastics on Philips plasma tv's in where the mounts that hold the pdp panels into the plastic casing. The end result is the panel falling into the casing of the tv severing the lower buffer ribbon cables on the screen and junking the panel because these ribbons are fused into the glass. The plastics get brittle from the excessive heat they put out and causes the screw mounts to break. The plastics get yellowed. I've seen the Vizios starting to do this areound where the back screws to the casing too. Yep even the plasmas are starting to become brittle.

the vizio is just as bad.