Early British TV - Videokarma.org TV - Video

Carmine · #1 01-01-2010, 07:04 AM

Yesterday I watched some bits & pieces of a 60s movie called "salt & pepper" starring Sammy Davis Jr. and Peter Lawford (respectively as salt and pepper, har har). Not exactly Oscar material, but at least a chance to see shots of vintage England.

At one point, the bad guys are holding the world hostage with a nuclear missle, and address the nation on "the unused channel 14" (If any Brits care to comment on this?)

There are several identical TVs show, which are obviously green-screened, however the TVs appear to be authentic color sets as there are color badges on them... So who will be the first to ID them?

Mikey405 · #2 01-02-2010, 07:34 AM

That's a 1967/1968 dual-standard (405 and 625 line) 25-inch Baird model M701. Not sure what they mean by the "Unused channel 14" - The Baird only goes up to channel 13 certainly.

(Perhaps it could reach the bottom end of "Channel 14" with the set switched to VHF channel 13.) From the angle of the VHF tuning knob, it does look as though the set in the film is switched to 405-lines VHF Channel 13, even though the set appears to be showing a 625-line colour picture (only broadcast on UHF).

It looks like the "Baird Colour" badge has been moved from the bottom of the set by someone. I've never seen one with the badge in that position before. Some models didn't have a cloth speaker grille either, and it looks like this is one of those sets.

[Edit]: Actually, the second picture looks like the set has two "Baird Colour" badges on it.

Carmine · #3 01-02-2010, 09:43 AM

Well you know how movie magic is... If Sammy Davis Jr and Peter Lawford can kick the asses of elite military officers to save England from its own nuclear warhead, (as they did in the movie), I'm sure just about anything is possible...

The "unused channel 14" was just a quote that struck me as awkward dialoge in the movie. Obviously correct, as nobody could have seen it anyways!

Thanks for the real-life photos.

EDIT: I just noticed the photo you posted of the knob... The numbers aren't in order??? What's the deal with that? Was that common practice like adding extra "u"s to words like "color"?

andy · #4 01-02-2010, 11:21 AM

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Mikey405 · #5 01-02-2010, 11:29 AM

Hi Carmine.

The numbers were not in order so that the 2 channels that we used to have on bands 1 and 3 would tend to fall next door to each other on the dial. For example, from one transmitter in Devon in the South West, we used to have BBC on channel 2 (band 1) and ITV on channel 9 (band 3). Other places in the UK had a similar arrangement with BBC and ITV on their respective band 1 and band 3 channels. (Ignoring regional differences, there were only ever 2 channels on VHF, so we could have the luxury of having the numbers next door to each other.)

As for the added "U" in "Colour", I guess there must be a few English-English and US-English words around like that. I think "Favorite" and "Favourite" is another one.

Thanks Carmine.

Kind regards.

From Mike.

Mikey405 · #6 01-02-2010, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy

http://www2.gsu.edu/~wwwesl/egw/jones/differences.htm

That's an interesting page, although I've never heard of "Bank" being spelt (spelled) "Banque". I think they just made that up...

Robert Grant · #7 01-02-2010, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey405

Hi Carmine.

The numbers were not in order so that the 2 channels that we used to have on bands 1 and 3 would tend to fall next door to each other on the dial. For example, from one transmitter in Devon in the South West, we used to have BBC on channel 2 (band 1) and ITV on channel 9 (band 3). Other places in the UK had a similar arrangement with BBC and ITV on their respective band 1 and band 3 channels. (Ignoring regional differences, there were only ever 2 channels on VHF, so we could have the luxury of having the numbers next door to each other.)

<snip>

That's exactly what I was thinking when I saw that, especially Greater London, with BBC (later BBC1) on 1 and Rediffusion (later Thames) on 9.

Not merely convenient, but saves the mechanical tuner from considerable mechanical wear.

As for the unused channel 14. I had not known that B14 had never been used. Some literature of the day did show a channel 14 in the UK bandplan, but others did not.

Carmine · #8 01-03-2010, 09:48 AM

I was just kidding about the "u" thing... I know there are differences in English/American spelling, but I'm glad people enjoyed the links. Incidentally, I've seen "banque" used on bank (cashiers) checks.

Thanks for the tuning number tutorial. Now I'm curious if the British ever used those UHF channels, and if so, were they little independent stations free of network (ITV or BBC) programing like in the US? The US business model of small-time UHF stations made for a lot of cool/fun programming back in the old days, and lately even in the modern era..

Witness our channel 38, which has taken over where our old channel 62 left off for low-budget movies, Rockford Files, Hawaii 5-0 reruns and technical difficulties. I love it! Its the way I remember UHF tv as a kid.

Robert Grant · #9 01-03-2010, 04:26 PM

British channel 14 (which, I now gather, may have never actually been used) was VHF-High, directly above their channel 13 (all of their channels were totally different from those in the USA, the audio was AM, 3.5 mc below the video, channels 1 and 2 were both below our channel 2, and their channels 3, 4 and 5 were all below 70 mc).

Britain never officially used UHF for 405 line transmissions.

Britain did what could be called an "analog transition" in the 1960's, with new 625-line FM audio transmitters entirely on UHF. The first transmitters were for the new BBC 2 service, then later ones for the existing BBC 1 and ITV services in PAL colour, 625 line, again all on UHF. For a decade and a half, BBC 1 and ITV ran two separate networks of TV transmitters - VHF 405 line monochrome for people with existing/old sets, and UHF 625 line colour for newer sets (for a brief time, there were dual-standard sets like the one shown in the aforementioned movie).

If your set was a 405 line and you did not purchase a new TV set by the beginning of 1985, you lost your access to TV. (There was no converter box subsidy scheme. The electronics were more expensive back then, retailers made no effort to keep UHF sets out of the marketplace, and the transition period was much longer, so nearly everyone had a UHF 625 line set by 1984).

As a side note, the Brits may deserve credit for inventing another icon of our digital transition, the virtual channel.

From some point in the 1970's onward, most UK sets, now UHF only, were equipped with four push buttons instead of a dial. The actual tuning of the four presets was only done as a setup, after which one just pressed a button for the desired channel, 1 (BBC 1), 2 (BBC 2), 3 (Local ITV franchisee) or 4 (4, which only arrived in 1982) (Those of us in The States who used a VCR before the mid 1980's may get the idea). So, the viewer of Tyne Tees TV in Newcastle and the bloke watching Thames in London both thought they were simply watching Channel 3, and had no idea one was actually tuned to channel 61, and the other to 23.

ppppenguin · #10 01-07-2010, 09:16 AM

Channel B14 is a bit of an enigma. It was certainly never used and the first I heard of it was on the Aurora standards converter. None of my books mention it and I've never seen a set with 14 on the dial. ISTR the topic was discussed some time ago on the UK forum http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/index.php? but no definite conclusion was reached.

Sandy G · #11 01-07-2010, 10:11 AM

Ahh, The Brits...Drive on the wrong side of the road. Conquered well over half the world, & built railways to access virtually every part of it, before there were modern construction devices, yet simple concepts like central heating/AC, proper dental hygene, & automotive electronics completely & utterly flummox them. Expensively keep up a family of pointless wastrels-The Windsors- whose main purpose nowadays is to see how many tabloid newspapers they can sell, & how many tourists they can bring in to tour their old, large, drafty palaces (see above). Taught the world how to properly run everything from a retail establishment to a country, yet of late have seemed to have ceded control of everything previously of value to themselves to soccer hooligans & yobs. Had broadcast television operational-of a sort-as early as 1936, yet were rather embarrassingly late to the color party, mainly because Aunty Beeb Wasn't Amused by "Colour". Curious lot, these Englanders...(grin)

Sandy G · #12 01-07-2010, 10:58 AM

Uhh, you English guys DO realise that I was just being Silly w/that post, doncha ?

andy · #13 01-07-2010, 01:58 PM

...

Sandy G · #14 01-07-2010, 02:06 PM

The Comet is another example...If they JUST hadn't put square windows on it...Oh, well...You DO have Airbus, which is "Sorta" British...We developed the transistor, which the Japanese took & ran with, so it ain't just entirely a Brit problem.

peverett · #15 01-07-2010, 04:39 PM

The British also invented the angled deck and modern steam catapult used on aircraft carriers that the US Navy has today. I am not sure who invented the aircraft carrier deck that curves upward, but have seen it used on British and Russian ships.

As to the DeHaviland Comet-if it had round windows/openings, slightly thicker skin, and tear stoppers(as the Boeing 707 had), DeHaviland, not Boeing, might be one of the two big aircraft makers today. The Comets were very successful until they began falling apart in mid air.

As to the transistor, I would propose that many more of these are now made in Taiwan than in Japan if the transistors in ICs(another US invention) are included. Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Corporation is the largest IC foundary in the world. Also, there are still plenty made here in the US with IBM, Intel, Freescale, AMD, Samsung, TI, TSMC, and Spansion all having US fabs.