many Analog American TV stations will kill analog Feb 17 even if deadline is extended

[NowhereMan 1966]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

I am not sure what the analog TV stations here in the Cleveland area will do on 02.17. Haven't heard or read anything yet as to early analog shutoffs, although the NBC affiliate will switch from analog channel 3 to digital UHF 17 after a non-commercial station on the latter channel goes off the air after the transition.

BTW, there really isn't that much to be gained in northeastern Ohio by having a converter box and getting TV reception on an antenna. The pictures on the local stations' main digital channels will be clearer, but as far as more programming choices on subchannels goes, I don't know. Cleveland's TV stations do not seem to want to put alternate programming on their digital subcarriers; most of what I see from TV Guide's website for Cleveland TV (the listing you get when you enter your zip code into a text box on the site) is that the digital subchannels carry the same programming as the main digital signal. For example, if channel 17.1 in Cleveland (the station's main digital channel) is carrying the station's standard network and local programming, digital subchannel 17.2 will probably carry the same thing. For some reason, TV stations in this part of Ohio either do not want to or are, for whatever reason, blocked from carrying alternate programming on digital subchannels. The only exceptions I've seen to this, so far, have been that the CBS-TV digital weather channel is now being carried on a subchannel of the local CBS affiliate, and NBC Weather Plus, a now defunct digital weather channel, which was carried on a subchannel of the NBC affiliate until the service went dark on December 31 last year.

Other than that, there is really no alternative programming to be had (that I am aware of) in northeastern Ohio on digital TV subchannels. Channel 5, the ABC affiliate in Cleveland, from what I have read, apparently doesn't believe in carrying subchannel programming; I don't think the others do either, except for the CBS affiliate's use of one of its subcarriers for the CBS digital weather channel, and channel 3 having used one of its digital channels for NBC Weather Plus until that service went dark.

Oh, well. All one can hope is that one of the channels picks up THIS-TV (RTN is either off the air for good or is struggling at this time, from what I've read; perhaps NowhereMan1966 will chime in and tell us more about whether RTN is at least available on the digital subcarriers of channel 11 in Pittsburgh) or any one of several other channels now available for retransmission over subchannels after the dust settles from the transition.

You rang?! Well, here in Pittsburgh, we still have RTN, but it is on 11.2 instead of 11.3 since NBC Weather kicked the bucket so RTN is still going strong here, Mom's watching it now. RTN always impressed me as a shoestring operation, I should e-mail them and tell them they have fans out here. KDKA-TV, channel 2 (25 UHF DTV) only broadcasts the main signal, no subchannels, I'd like them to put CW on a subchannel although CW will have it's own DTV station. WTAE-TV, channel 4 has weather on 4.2 so I use that instead of NBC Weather. We have three PBS channels a HDTV one, the main programming one and a subchannel featuring locally made documentaries.

Nearby markets, Steubenville, Ohio, 9.1 is NBC, 9.2 is RTN and 9.3 is weather radar. Wheeling, WV, WTRF, 7.1 is CBS, 7.2 is Fox and 7.3 is ABC, down there, ABC is hard to get since channel 4's analogue signal is tough to get, in fact, the digital one is easier to get usually. Johnstown, channel 6, WJAC also carries RTN as well. I can't get the Steubenville or Wheeling stations too well until they go back to their VHF channels, so I'll get a second RTN station.

[colorfixer]

I know its seems aggravating that most of the broadcasters will stick to the Feb 17 date, irrespective of any delay from the gov't. Here's the reasons why stations would stick to the deadline:

1. Stations would have to go along with a fixed schedule to change over if they need to swap their DTV assignments back to their analog assignment in order to allow for another station to occupy the former DTV assignment.

2. The amount of coordination to allow for station engineers to get together to do any alterations to a transmitter combiner in a shared antenna system/co-located transmitter site is mind boggling. I had to coordinate a tower maintenance day on a shared antenna system in FM broadcast environment, it was not unlike herding cats, very poorly behaved cats.

3. Many stations require(d) re-engineering to do the changeover, requiring specialized engineers which are hired guns, or tasked to care for a number of corporately owned stations. These people are over worked, and under paid and have to stick to a firm schedule due to sheer workload.

4. I'd wager that a few stations have leases at their present analog tx sites that expire at the end of February, giving them enough time to clear out their analog equipment by the end of that month.

5. $aving the dollars in a screwy economy that would pay for the energy bill to keep the analog transmitters lit up. Being in engineering, just getting the corporate bean counters off your back is more than worth it.

6. Fewer and fewer people use off air now than before, as a previous poster cited in San Diego. BTW: XETV will still be analog? The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. I'd like to see for myself what a full power VHF DTV signal would do over the flea power transmitters many are running now. The sheer frustration around here trying to get a solid lock from a 20 mile distant

7. Since the changeover has been in the works for a long time, many broadcasters have purchased new digital facilities, and have run their analog transmitters in "end of life" mode (read -into the ground). I know of at least a few stations in the northwest that have old transmitters from RCA and NEC that they just are limping along. Just trying to get a high power klystrode for some transmitters are almost as hard as getting a NIB 15GP22.

[wa2ise]

Originally Posted by colorfixer

5. $aving the dollars in a screwy economy that would pay for the energy bill to keep the analog transmitters lit up. Being in engineering, just getting the corporate bean counters off your back is more than worth it.

Some years ago, I heard of some UHF station in the Washington DC area that went digital and quit transmitting an analog signal. As they knew that most of their viewers got the station over cable TV systems. So they supplied the various cable TV systems in the area digital decoder/converters and antennas, helped set them up, and once that was done, quit analog. Their old analog power was something like a half million watts, and supposedly their digital wattage was much less, for the same service coverage area. The electric bill savings were significant.

[ChrisW6ATV]

Originally Posted by DENNYDOG

Me too. How many people watch tv on an over the air tv antenna anyways? Its not like it costs a fortune to get a converter box either. Switch it over and be done with it.

I have watched only OTA TV since December 2005 (with a savings of over US$3000 in satellite-TV fees so far). With digital OTA, there are more chioces than ever before and thus it is easier to do without satellite (or cable) service.

Originally Posted by Duffinator

I bought my first digital HDTV over eight years ago. Let's get this over with now, why even wait for the 17th?

My first HDTV tuner was an RCA in 2000 as well; I don't think I have watched anything analog since probably some time in 2001.

[ChrisW6ATV]

Originally Posted by wa2ise

Some years ago, I heard of some UHF station in the Washington DC area that went digital and quit transmitting an analog signal.

KCSM (channel 43) here in the San Francisco area dropped its NTSC (channel 60) signal in about 2004 after a problem with their analog transmitter or tower site. They did bring the analog station back on the air at lower power for a while some time later, but I think it is gone again.

[OvenMaster]

Originally Posted by colorfixer

I'd like to see for myself what a full power VHF DTV signal would do over the flea power transmitters many are running now. The sheer frustration around here trying to get a solid lock from a 20 mile distant

*snorts* Good luck with that.
I have a 1MW UHF ch33 DTV signal just 25 miles away and I can't get it in the summer when all the leaves are on the trees, with a 25' rotatable amplified outdoor antenna... yet the same station's analog VHF channel 3 is only 100kW, from the same antenna farm, and I've never had a problem picking it up with indoor rabbit ears!

I got a feeling that not that many people in my area will care... we have a cable saturation rate of >95%

Tom

[AUdubon5425]

Signal reception isn't a big issue here since the terrain is flat (sinking, in fact) and the transmitters are within 20 miles. The digital transmissions are more finnicky than analog ones though.

My main beef with all of this is that I'll no longer be able to place my little portable Philco-Ford wherever I want to watch it without lugging a bunch of cables & the converter box with it. For me it defeats the whole purpose of having a "portable" TV.

[fdrennen]

Anyone knows the plans in NYC?

[Jeffhs]

Originally Posted by AUdubon5425

My main beef with all of this is that I'll no longer be able to place my little portable Philco-Ford wherever I want to watch it without lugging a bunch of cables & the converter box with it. For me it defeats the whole purpose of having a "portable" TV.

I think there are portable TVs, not to mention VCRs and DVD recorders, with ATSC tuners available now--in fact, I'm all but sure of it, since stores are no longer permitted to sell new-in-box analog TVs with NTSC tuners; the only exceptions would be sets sold without tuners of any kind (for use only with line-input signals from OTA or cable converters, VCRs and DVD players) or the case of stores wanting to sell off their inventory of analog NTSC sets in a hurry. In the latter case, however, there must be a clearly worded notice, either on the set itself or in the instruction manual (or both), stating that the TV will not work after the digital transition unless it is connected to a converter box or to cable or satellite service. The notice must also clearly state that the set will continue to operate with VCRs, DVD players, and video game consoles, with no modifications required.

There is presently, however, no such requirement for analog NTSC TVs sold on eBay or Craigslist, that I am aware of. I think there should be; that is, sellers of used NTSC televisions must clearly state that the sets won't work after the transition without cable, satellite or an OTA converter. There are still many people who are completely unprepared for the transition and/or do not understand that their sets will no longer work with antennas after the analog stations go off the air. The scenario depicted in a Youtube video I saw a few weeks ago, in which an elderly woman is trying, unsuccessfully, to connect an OTA ATSC converter box to her old analog TV, is anything but unheard of; many people are baffled by the maze of wires behind their TV, and will not touch them under any circumstances.

If ATSC OTA converters were truly "plug and play" devices, such problems would not be issues today. I can only guess how often the very same scenario played out when UHF television converters first came on the market, leaving many viewers baffled as to how the box was to be connected to the TV. ATSC converters seem to me to be no more complicated than a UHF converter to connect to any standard television. My best guess is that, in those days, many people just left their TVs alone and didn't bother with UHF until the old set quit; then they got a new all-channel TV. The only exception would have probably been viewers with older VHF-only sets in markets with only UHF TV stations, but in these markets new TVs were, after April 30, 1964, already factory-equipped with UHF tuners, converters being used with older sets.

The same rule applies to new televisions sold after February 1, 2007. These sets must have ATSC tuners. Unlike UHF-equipped sets that still had VHF NTSC tuners, however, the new generation of high- and standard-definition televisions have only ATSC tuners. There is no need for the old NTSC tuner, since after the transition (now 06.12.09), the NTSC television system in the US will have been abolished, having been replaced by 100-percent digital. In some markets, such as Hawaii (all markets in the entire state) and several markets in at least one state on the mainland, analog TV already has ended; others are sure to follow suit, even before the official transition date. I think at least one of the PBS stations here in northeastern Ohio (Time-Warner Cable in this area carries two PBS affiliates) already has made the switch; I will remain watchful for developments at the area's other eight TV stations, as the Cleveland stations have not yet (to the best of my knowledge) announced plans to end early their analog transmissions.

[wa2ise]

Another article on this:
http://my.earthlink.net/article/nat?...02051877707178

This web site can tell you what signals are probably receivable where you are located: http://www.tvfool.com

[Trance88]

Most if not all of the stations here in Grand Rapids Michigan are planning on broadcasting analog until the extended date. Too many people still haven't gotten the box or new TV.

[peverett]

I saw an article on MSNBC that indicated that the FCC would like at least one station to continue analog transmission in each market until the new June date. I am not sure if that will actually happen. If it does happen, tornado season(April, May, June) may be very interesting once people realize how crappy OTA DTV is in poor weather.

What Jeffs says about analog tuners being useless after the switch is not quite true. There will be low power analog stations still on the air(not sure if their programming is worth watching though) and if you are close to the Mexican border, you can watch their stations. They are not switching at this point. I think Canada is delayed until 2011 also.

As far as the small Philco, at least here, Wal-Mart was still selling small color CRT based sets with digital tuners the last time I was there. I am not sure how long that will last.

I live about 30 miles from the transmitters and have no problem getting DTV during good weather.

[colorfixer]

NTSC tuners will be around in sets for a while yet. Communities that are served by low power translators or stations that are "low power" such as community LP stations are exempt the digital transition for a few years yet. It took a number of months into the awareness campaign for the NAB and PBS infomercials to admit to this.

[mattdavala]

Our local stations in Portland, Oregon are all converting to digital Feb 17th. No delaying here!

See ya,
Matt Davala

[zenith2134]

I don't think that analog will hang on in NYC. I know for a fact that WNYW Fox 5 is going to switch over on the 17th of this month.