DTV transition "Soft test" on 11-20-08 in Chicago

[Jeffhs]

Originally Posted by freakaftr8

Good lord this is hillarious!!!

http://www.hulu.com/watch/36608/talk...sten-cable-psa

I'm very sorry, but I don't see the humor. What is shown in that Youtube video is actually what happens when some older people try to connect DTV converters to their TV sets. They usually wind up having a younger, more technology-savvy family member install the box for them.

Another thing that bothers me about that video is the title: "Sorry, old people--no TV for you in 2009". I beg to differ. Older people, just like the rest of us, will have television after 02.17.09, or whenever the transition will be; as I said above, if they have problems with or cannot understand the hookup instructions, they can always have someone else install the converter on their TV. I think many people will take this route anyway, as there are a great many folks out there of all ages who do not know a thing about TV beyond how to turn the set on and off, change the channel and adjust the volume. I know at least one person who is like that; most of us here on AK, as well, probably know people who don't know or care what goes on inside their sets or how anything is connected to them, as long as they can get the shows they want to watch. That is why today's TVs (at least the analog CRT sets of the '80s-'90s were like this; flat-panel HDTVs require professional calibration and setup, not to mention at least two people to lift and move the heavier sets) will work right out of the box, with a minimum amount of fussing with cables. With these sets all one need do is put the set on a stand, connect the antenna or cable, plug it in, turn it on and enjoy the programs.

[Trance88]

Originally Posted by peverett

I am not against change that actually works for the better(i. e. fuel injection for automobiles), but am against change that is just driven by greed(as I believe this one is). I believe the average person who depends on broadcast TV will be worse off with DTV, especially in poor weather.

Digital in nature was not meant to be sent over the air. It's too sensitive of a medium to send the signal flawlessly. I think of Digital over the air broadcast similar to satellite service. Over the air DTV is just satellite service sent over broadcast towers on land instead of an orbiting satellite in space.

[electroking]

Originally Posted by Trance88

Digital in nature was not meant to be sent over the air. It's too sensitive of a medium to send the signal flawlessly.
...

This statement should be either withdrawn or sustained by serious
references. Don't turn a personal frustration into a smear campaign
against engineers and scientist that have been working decades to
tremendously improve your standard of living! Regards.

[Kiwick]

DTV isn't improving our standard of living, especially if you happen to live in a fringe area.

DTV is all about money, really.

[electroking]

My statement did not refer to DTV in particular, but to digital technology in general.
If anyone can prove to me that the most efficient approach to send a given
amount of data across a radio channel with noise and interference is an analog
modulation, be my guest.

Note: Morse code IS digital in some way, and all old fashioned hams will tell
you that it punches through the noise better than anything else...

[peverett]

I suspect that NASA uses digital to transmit data from Mars, etc to earth. However, in their case, you can use a very slow data rate and re-transmit as many times as you need(as well as use as many error correction bits as you want).

Modern cellphones are digital(hence the drop outs and such). But, just as with DTV, some people lost service in the conversion. My mother was one, she lives in rural area in Oklahoma and has not had decent cell phone service since analog cell phone service was discontinued.

Digital transmission is used for satellite TV, hence the weather issues with it. DTV is like satellite with ground proximity transmission issues added. (DTV could probably be as reliable as analog if the same amount of spectrum was used to transmit it. This "saved" spectrum is not really free-the un-reliablity of DTV(in poor weather, etc). is the cost.

Hawaii just converted today-we will see how they do.

[Trance88]

Originally Posted by peverett

I suspect that NASA uses digital to transmit data from Mars, etc to earth. However, in their case, you can use a very slow data rate and re-transmit as many times as you need(as well as use as many error correction bits as you want).

Modern cellphones are digital(hence the drop outs and such). But, just as with DTV, some people lost service in the conversion. My mother was one, she lives in rural area in Oklahoma and has not had decent cell phone service since analog cell phone service was discontinued.

Digital transmission is used for satellite TV, hence the weather issues with it. DTV is like satellite with ground proximity transmission issues added. (DTV could probably be as reliable as analog if the same amount of spectrum was used to transmit it. This "saved" spectrum is not really free-the un-reliablity of DTV(in poor weather, etc). is the cost.

Hawaii just converted today-we will see how they do.

Yeah, Durring a major thunderstorm over the summer I was using DTV and had to switch back to analog because DTV was dropping out like crazy. When DTV works properly I think the picture quality is amazing for free over the air access.

[Kiwick]

Originally Posted by electroking

My statement did not refer to DTV in particular, but to digital technology in general.
If anyone can prove to me that the most efficient approach to send a given
amount of data across a radio channel with noise and interference is an analog
modulation, be my guest.

Note: Morse code IS digital in some way, and all old fashioned hams will tell
you that it punches through the noise better than anything else...

Analog broadcasts are not as efficent as digital ones, but they're more reliable.

You can still hear and watch a DX broadcast even with a lot of static, with digital broadcasts, you get it perfect or you get nothing.

They also claim that DTV uses less energy than analog TV, but i think that the millions of converter boxes needed to watch DTV largely offset any such benefit

[peverett]

Here is a link to an article about the Hawaii conversion:
http://www.informationweek.com/news/...ubSection=News

Especially note the paragraph staring with "Unfortunately"

As expected, people are losing their ability to get "over the air" TV because of the switch. The article also mentions issues in Maine.

[AUdubon5425]

Originally Posted by Kiwick

Analog broadcasts are not as efficent as digital ones, but they're more reliable.

You can still hear and watch a DX broadcast even with a lot of static, with digital broadcasts, you get it perfect or you get nothing.

They also claim that DTV uses less energy than analog TV, but i think that the millions of converter boxes needed to watch DTV largely offset any such benefit

When we had to evacuate from Hurricane Gustav last August, the only constant info I could get out in the Mississippi countryside were TV audio (and sporadic video) on my 9" Philco-Ford. Daytime radio broadcasts from Baton Rouge & New Orleans were hit & miss at best.

As far as the energy argument, come on, modern CRT TVs don't use that much - remember the ads for solid state TV in the 70's saying they used less energy than a 100w light bulb? I would have to make a guess, based solely from the heat I've felt generated from the newer flat TV sets, that they are using a lot more energy than a common CRT TV in use today.

[radiotvnut]

I just finished watching a 30 minute locally produced program aired by the local ABC affiliate concerning the DTV transition. The subject was brought up concerning a possible push back of the analog cutoff date. They said that they intend to turn off analog on 2/17 @11:59 PM unless there is a federal mandate that won't allow them to do so. They added that some stations may have no choice but to cut off analog on 2/17 due to technical and monetary reasons and a date change may confuse people who have had 2/17/09 beat into them for a year or two now. Also, they advised everyone to perform a channel scan on 2/18 because they would be moving their current UHF digital channel back to VHF and that other stations would be doing this as well.

[peverett]

Having some stations go DTV on 2/17 while others remain analog(in the same market)for a few more months may actually be a good thing. It would allow a large scale side by side comparison of the two technologys under many reception conditions.

I supposed the FCC should have done things like this already, but from my experience to date, it does not look like it.