DTV transition "Soft test" on 11-20-08 in Chicago

[wkand]

HI:

Phil Nelson: You asked if the coupons could be diverted to another location. I teid that for my mother and it would not take the diverted address (mine) on the website because I had already ordered two coupons for my address, and that is how they track who has and who has not received the coupons.

I agree with the other member who said he right hand doesn't know the left hand. My 85 YO MIL who lives in Reno was able to call and get a live person on the line. All I ever got was automated menus. She got a promise to fix the bad delivery of the coupons from her prior attemts to order via snail mail. We decided to buy her an adapter at the local Circ City. I bought the Zenith, had zero trouble with it, and using an amplified Phillips rabbit ear "DTV ready" antenna my MIL already had, the picture just pops on her 2005 Sanyo 21" flat screen tube TV!!! We watched the Olympics for a while, and I had to tighten the rods on the antenna, but after that it was rock stable. She had a little trouble with learning the remote, but I as able to "convert" the remote to powering and controlling her TV for the most part. I ran the volume control on her TV to Max using that set's original remote control, then used the Zenith conveter remote as a sort of "sub-volume" control. She called us later to say all is well after we left. She lives in an apartment, near her city, and now gets twice the channels she got before, with all the sub channels offering different programming.

Also, I was able to hit the "Zoom" button, and give her full screen instead of letterbox, making the viewing experience the same as what she had except for the remote, and having to learn the new subchannels she now has.

That's enough for an 85 YOto handle, even one as sharp as she is.

[ChrisW6ATV]

Originally Posted by ChrisW6ATV

The trouble with "market-based" solutions is that most people are far too short-sighted to ever choose what is good in the long term

Originally Posted by Carmine

Respectfully because I respect most of your postings, and do not wish this to come off as a flame-war, I have to say that this statement comes off as incredibly arrogant.

I should have said that some advances are doomed to fail if left to market forces; the UHF tuner example is what I had in mind, for example. I am as guilty as the next person of looking for the cheapest price on most things I buy, but the long-term result of that is more Wal-Marts and other big-box stores with employees who have terrible customer-service skills, and who thinks that is an advance? (That is not an example with any connection to government regulations, though, I admit.)

Perhaps the digital TV mandate seems like an unreasonable government intrusion, but in fact just about every little detail of any over-the-air radiated signal, whether for public entertainment or any other use, is heavily regulated in the USA and every other country that I know. Much of this is to protect users from interference, but plenty of regulations are in place simply to improve efficiency, and many laws and standards have changed over the years as more-efficient methods of transmission, manufacturing, or other advances have become available. Digital TV is more efficient than analog, therefore it is ultimately better overall even if some users will have problems they did not have with analog.

[peverett]

I hope that I am wrong, but I am not sure that MOST people who depend on broadcast TV for their severe weather warnings will not be worse off. This is based on my experience with DTV in Texas, where thunderstorms are common. From the above experience, I think this is a step backwards in safety.

If the Bill that has passed the senate (allowing NTSC transmission near the Mexican border for four more years) passes the house and is signed, we may finally get a good comparison of analog vs digital under many different weather conditions. For this reason alone, I think it is a good bill and have let my representatives know this.

As to the greater efficency(at what could be a fairly large cost)-who benefits from this? So far I have a local weather station and an oldie station and a sometime PBS extra? Do you think these people buying this spectrum are going to give us anything that is "Free(paid for by someone else-advertizers)" like broadcast TV? I bet not.

[ChrisW6ATV]

Well, I wouldn't expect anyone buying spectrum to then give away what they put on it. They are, however, "giving us" (the U.S. taxpayers) the money they pay for the spectrum.

RF spectrum sales and band re-allocation are an entirely different issue from the change to digital TV. Digital TV need have nothing to do with making money from spectrum sales, but if we can have more TV channel choices (which we do/will) and make money from sales of now-available frequencies (and there is a "market-based" plan if I ever saw one), then I see that as a good thing.

[peverett]

I am sure not impressed with my "New Channels" to date. I would much rather to be able to receive my existing channels reliably, without the pixelization and sound crapping out(as I was experiencing earlier this evening-even in todays good weather-same channel came in fine on analog tonight and on DTV two days ago).

[wa2ise]

Just heard this announcement when watching Seattle's PBS channel 9. Cutting the power bill, I suppose. And maybe to encourage people to get converter boxes...

[peverett]

What Seattle is doing is probably for the best. It will give some people a taste of how well broadcast DTV works when the winter storms (with high winds) hit.

As to converters, I have tried several and most seem to work well when conditions for reception are good. The exception has been the RCA from Wal-Mart. This converter seems to be designed to encourage purchase of a Wal-Mart DTV, not allow you to keep your analog set. It's reception is poor compared to the others I have and I have had to cycle the power after it crashed(This has happened at least twice)
.

[NowhereMan 1966]

Originally Posted by ChrisW6ATV

The trouble with "market-based" solutions is that most people are far too short-sighted to ever choose what is good in the long term, and many things (like digital TV) require mass adoption to get their costs down to compete with and eventually surpass the old standards. In other cases, it is not just cost reduction that drives changes and government mandates. Without laws, would we have mandatory air bags, seat belts, or numerous other safety features in all of our cars? Most likely not; relatively few people go shopping based on those features, or fuel mileage (until recently), etc. The same was true for UHF tuners on TV sets; they were an extra-cost option (and therefore rare) until required by law, thus making UHF TV stations more viable, bringing many more on the air, and opening a far wider choice of programming to people who otherwise (and formerly) would not have chosen the "extra cost" UHF tuner.

If we "let the market decide", then all over-the-air TV will go away since 85% of the U.S. public has satellite or cable TV, and the remaining people are assumed to be lower income than those who pay for their TV reception. Digital TV, and its increased channel capacity (which means more ad sales), is going to help keep OTA TV available as an option, not hinder it, but most people will not choose it unless "they have to right now". Just look at all the nay-sayers on this forum alone, and we are more technically inclined and adept than the average public.

Yeah, I guess you do have good points, I mean there is a good side to DTV. If I'm ever too poor for cable, at least I have more choices than before with over the air TV. I could always watch one of the local PBS subchannels that always broadcasts Pittsburgh and Pennsylvania history by a local named Rick Sebak or go to RTN with all the old shows from the 1950's to the 1980's. I might be looking at that now being unemployed righ now and having to cut back. Myself, I think standard def is OK, it doesn't matter as long as the program is good, but that is my take. Back in the day, I liked how you have some choices on over the air TV, at least during the afternoons, the Pittsburgh station ran cartoons, so did Steubenville, Ohio, but Youngstown ran movies in the afternoon. When movies like "Planet of the Apes," "Matt Helm," or "A Man Like Flint" came on, we were in hog heaven. Today, it's all Dr. Phil, Oprah and so on, so bland, so homoginized. If we get an ION affiliate, it would be perfect, but at least I have PBS and RTN.

I might be delving into politics a little but there are too many who believe the free market is the end all, yes, it is a tool, an excellent one, but I guess it should not be applied to everything.

I never thought of it that way, maybe DTV will energize over the air TV, I mean when we watch RTN, it is over the air, not on cable.

[radiotvnut]

I hear you on TV choices. When I was a kid, I couldn't wait to get home from school so I could watch He-Man and Scooby Doo. I also remember older shows like Gunsmoke, Little House, Dukes of Hazzard, Incredible Hulk, etc. playing on the local channels in the afternoon. That all changed when Oprah came on the seen. Now, all that comes on are courtroom reality shows and talk shows. I can only take so much of Judge Judy style shows and I don't care "who your baby's daddy" is! I can't believe that the American public can sit down and watch that same crap day after day. If someone locally would carry RTN or a similar network over DTV, I'd be one happy camper. Of course, that will probably never happen. Meridian, MS is the last place to get anything!

[electroking]

Originally Posted by ChrisW6ATV

I will not miss analog TV at all when it goes away in February. Nothing about it, zilch, zip. Nada. Digital is so much more stable and smooth, with more channels, has higher quality (not even to mention HDTV which makes SD analog really look like garbage by comparison). And, all this is on the same antennas I have used for analog TV, though I use a smaller antenna now for my all-digital reception. I started watching digital TV in 2000 and have not watched anything analog (except to test my antique TV sets) in probably six years.

But... This forum is so full of people who whine and moan and groan about digital TV and nit-pick and concentrate on its relatively few drawbacks. Maybe I am in the wrong place.

Don't worry Chris, there are at least two of us that don't fear the transition
but actually look forward to it.

I must admit however that, since the cutoff date here in Canada is
still (barely) over three years away (August 31, 2011), i have yet to
see an ATSC signal being decoded.

One thing that keeps getting mentioned in this forum is causing me to
wonder: the worry about TV signals being harder to receive in a weather
emergency. It seems to me that radio, not TV, is the medium of choice
for weather emergencies, especially when you happen to be stuck in
your car. So instead of worrying about TV reception, get a good quality
AM-FM-WB radio, possibly with a crank generator, and get used to
radio stations in your area.

Good night to all.

[stereocuuple]

I live near kansas city and tonight one of our local stations did a "DTV home test"

There was a big production where one of the anchors was in the control booth and explained to listeners that "the change is coming soon." She told everyone that she would be pushing a certain button, and that if reception was dropped, that you would be needing to buy a converter box or a TV with a digital tuner.
When she pushed the button, our picture remained clear,as we have a digital TV.
Just for kicks, we tuned in to the analog channel of the same station just to see what would appear to those without one.

Well, I guess you could say that "broadcasting" ended, except for the message accross the screen that said, "your TV signal will no longer be available after February 2009, call 1800 blah blah blah for your coupon.

Picture a screen full of static, with perfectly clear, advertisement-style wording in the middle of the picture.

Seems pretty weird to me....

Erin

[NowhereMan 1966]

Originally Posted by radiotvnut

I hear you on TV choices. When I was a kid, I couldn't wait to get home from school so I could watch He-Man and Scooby Doo. I also remember older shows like Gunsmoke, Little House, Dukes of Hazzard, Incredible Hulk, etc. playing on the local channels in the afternoon. That all changed when Oprah came on the seen. Now, all that comes on are courtroom reality shows and talk shows. I can only take so much of Judge Judy style shows and I don't care "who your baby's daddy" is! I can't believe that the American public can sit down and watch that same crap day after day. If someone locally would carry RTN or a similar network over DTV, I'd be one happy camper. Of course, that will probably never happen. Meridian, MS is the last place to get anything!

Yeah, tell me about it, those were the good days. At least with RTN, we have some of that back.

[NowhereMan 1966]

Originally Posted by electroking

Don't worry Chris, there are at least two of us that don't fear the transition
but actually look forward to it.

I must admit however that, since the cutoff date here in Canada is
still (barely) over three years away (August 31, 2011), i have yet to
see an ATSC signal being decoded.

One thing that keeps getting mentioned in this forum is causing me to
wonder: the worry about TV signals being harder to receive in a weather
emergency. It seems to me that radio, not TV, is the medium of choice
for weather emergencies, especially when you happen to be stuck in
your car. So instead of worrying about TV reception, get a good quality
AM-FM-WB radio, possibly with a crank generator, and get used to
radio stations in your area.

Good night to all.

I guess count me in. At least here in the U.S., the government did address the problem with DTV boxes so we can enjoy our old stuff for many years to come. I'm watching the DNC convention on my old B&W as we speak. Come to think of it, pulling in our local NBC affiliate was like pulling teeth because no matter what, the picture was ghosty. So bad I watched NBC out of Steubenville, Ohio. Our ABC is tough to get, sometimes not able at all, so far, DTV does the job on those much better. It's a done deal anyways. Plus in bad weather, two of our station broadcast weather and radar and if those are not around, at least we still have AM/FM radio plus hams like me have VHF radios.

[zenithfan1]

Originally Posted by stereocuuple

I live near kansas city and tonight one of our local stations did a "DTV home test"

There was a big production where one of the anchors was in the control booth and explained to listeners that "the change is coming soon." She told everyone that she would be pushing a certain button, and that if reception was dropped, that you would be needing to buy a converter box or a TV with a digital tuner.
When she pushed the button, our picture remained clear,as we have a digital TV.
Just for kicks, we tuned in to the analog channel of the same station just to see what would appear to those without one.

Well, I guess you could say that "broadcasting" ended, except for the message accross the screen that said, "your TV signal will no longer be available after February 2009, call 1800 blah blah blah for your coupon.

Picture a screen full of static, with perfectly clear, advertisement-style wording in the middle of the picture.

Seems pretty weird to me....

Erin

Eeesh......That IS wierd.

[peverett]

As to the comment about radio being the medium of choice in severe weather, I completely disagree. Here, when severe weather is around the local TV stations broadcast detailed radar images of where the storms are and where they are projected to be over the next hour or so. Radio cannot come close to this. The only way I would depend on radio is if I was stuck in a car or I had no way to power a TV. Even the so-called weather radios are not very good. We have one and if you allow the alarm to sound, it sounds for either a warning or a watch(should only sound for warnings, but you cannot turn the watch alarm off), like crying wolf in a crowded theater.

As a preview to how I think DTV will do in bad weather, I was at my mothers house in rural OK this last summer. Bad weather was coming in the middle of the night. She has satellite, so I turned on the TV to see where it was. Of course it kept on freezing up and crapping out. I finally was able to see that it had passed us, but if a tornado had been coming, I would have been blown away. She does not have a good outside antenna at present, so viewing analog TV was not an option.

Yet another preview (using actual DTV) occured here in the spring of this year. I was watching DTV in my workshop to see how well it works here. A line of thrunderstorms was approaching from the west. Guess what, I lost DTV completely with a frozen/screen, no sound for several(probably 10 or so) minutes. I turned on a TV receiving analog to see where the storms were-worked just fine the entire time.