Ignorant people.

[waltchan]

I'm a VCR collector who collects VCRs from the very first one with knobs to Wallyworld's special $40 Funai/Emerson VCR, and the highest peak quality year appears to be 1987. Nothing is better than 1987. 1986 is next, and then 1988 is next.

[andy]

Originally Posted by waltchan

I'm a VCR collector who collects VCRs from the very first one with knobs to Wallyworld's special $40 Funai/Emerson VCR, and the highest peak quality year appears to be 1987. Nothing is better than 1987. 1986 is next, and then 1988 is next.

I think it depends on brand. For example, I'd say Pansonic peaked in 1986 to mid 1987 (before they went to that awful single motor design). 1985 Panasonics are almost as good, but have one more rubber parts and tend to lack some of the features of the later ones.

[waltchan]

Originally Posted by andy

I think it depends on brand. For example, I'd say Pansonic peaked in 1986 to mid 1987 (before they went to that awful single motor design). 1985 Panasonics are almost as good, but have one more rubber parts and tend to lack some of the features of the later ones.

True, but they use switching power supplies with capacitors that need replacement every 8-15 years. Check out the Panasonic AG-1810, NV-H70PX (I have one), or the Canon VR-HF720A unit. It uses the same chassis but with a linear power supply (big transformer), and it looks and works like a consumer model than a commercial model. Frank Fendley at Studio Sound Electronics (http://www.studiosoundelectronics.com) is the place where you can buy replacement rubber belt kits and he can tell you what's good and what's junk. I e-mail to him all the time.

The most reliable Panasonic VCR ever made in history is the 1984 PV-1730 and 1986 AG-1950 units. They use direct-drive motors for each changing function with no belts needed and use no surface-mount capacitors. I'm not sure if you are familiar with these two models.

The highest life-longevity you can get in a Panasonic VCR (not reliability) is the one made from 1981-1982 with a brushless capstan motor (e.g. PV-1770). The chassis and electronics (if maintained properly) are designed to last for 50 years max.

Despite the switching power supplies Panasonic used in their VCRs, I consider Panasonic to be like Toyota of quality. There hasn't been one bad, lemon Panasonic VCR year yet for 25 years now.

If you think 1988 is the beginning year for the one-belt G-chassis, think again. This chassis was first introduced in 1987 and was put in the Panasonic AG-1820 and Canon VR-HF800A units (I have the Canon). Although you may not like the G-Chassis, according to Frank at Studio Sound Electronics, it's considered to be the most reliable mass-marketed Panasonic chassis ever made, and there are a lot more G-Chassis units out there still in operation today than the mid-80s two-belt chassis.

I wouldn't consider 1986 the peak quality year on VCRs because there were more units with idler tires than in 1987, and idler tires do crack and break. 1988 is not better than 1987 because Hitachi went from the rugged six-belt chassis to the one-belt chassis with mode-switch and power supply failing all the time.

[Arkay]

Yeah, it was bad enough when they began putting those metal pipes and fancy porcelain bowls INSIDE the house. It used to strengthen the constitution to go outside in winter and work the pump handle when you wanted to wash, and it built character to have to trudge to the outhouse through the snow. Outhouses used to be safely placed away from the home, kitchen, etc..., which was hygeinic. Now there not only aren't any outhouses, you wash the sh*t away into pipes that go through the walls to who-knows where. Just the thought of that creeps me out. What if one day they spring a leak?

Then they got those fancy squawk-talk things, uh, -- telephones! Like it would hurt your lungs to yell over the back fence when you wanted to talk to your neighbour, or hurt your legs to walk into town when you wanted to find out if the store carried something you needed. At least when they started, you could talk to the sweet-voiced hello girls at the switchboards [Madeline always sounded the sexiest, but Mabel was the kind you'd wish was your Mother. Only Harriet reminded me too much of my old teacher!].

Radio used to be simple: hook up three batteries, dial in three knobs, and you could hear the station. Then it got more and more complicated, and sometimes sounded a little better, but for years now it has all been going to hell. The music has, too. The noise they put out now isn't really music. Doesn't matter much, though, since kids today don't really dance: they just sort of sit there and bounce like bobble-head figurines. Now they've made music controls simple again with iPods - just one round thing like putting the old knobs together -- but the sound is awful, even compared to the old horn speakers we used to listen through.

Okay, I'll stop there...shift gears:

We live in the future. Okay, so we aren't flying around in Jetsons-style hovercars yet, but GPRS is pretty amazing and would have fit right in there. Our mobile phones aren't strapped on our wrists like Dick Tracey's radio-wristwatch, but they serve very much the same function of keeping us connected everywhere. And we still have the choice of leaving them at home or turning them off (even if some people resent it when we do). We live in yesterday's future. Unfortunately, we kept some of the "cartoon joke" aspects in the transition, as regards some measures of quality. iPods are much more portable than 22XX or SX-series receivers or even boomboxes. But they are more fragile, have poorer sound and won't last as long. One step forward, one or two steps back.

There are many and complex reasons why the world is going the way it is -- some of them inevitable, but some quite lamentable nonetheless. Hundreds of millions of increasingly affluent consumers in India and China are driving up the price of basic raw materials, metals, etc... to unprecedented levels, and that process will continue for years to come. Imagine if all those people were buying SX-1050ss instead of little iPods or plastic-cased radios. The wooden cases for those receivers alone would destroy most remaining forests within a decade. If all their cars were made from heavy sheet steel like 1950s cars were, imagine what steel would cost today, trying to keep up with demand.

If everyone is going to have a television, stereo system, appliances and entertainment, most of the goods HAVE TO BE mostly made from cheap plastic, and engineered-to-the-minimum-cost standards. Yes, it would be nice if we each bought one TOTL last-your-entire-life radio and that was the end of it -- that might even work in terms of demands on resources-- but it would be boring and would make it hard for many companies to stay in business, would tend to stifle innovation and put a limit on potential lifestyle improvement (even if much of what results is NOT an improvement) and consumers would go without many things for longer periods of their lives. These days, most people will not defer satisfaction that way. Long-term, the world will inevitably continue to change, sometimes in ways we do not like, because there are "too many" people in the world for it not to!


Hopefully we will (individually and collectively) find ways to achieve a good balance. For many of us on this board, that includes retaining, repairing and preserving some of the higher-quality older gear. My steam iron is an old industrial-grade unit from a garment factory. FAR out-performs the best of the new ones in the department stores (I know, I had one of those too). But it isn't realistic nor practical for us to expect or demand that most of the population follow that path and that manufacturers continue to turn out that quality. Perhaps it is better in many ways if most of them don't. I'm sad, too, to see these changes in society. But I accept that they may be inevitable. I don't participate "fully" in the modern economy, but find my own "balance point", consuming some new products but mostly recycling the older versions that I perceive to be better in absolute quality, and much better value-for-money. I'm glad there are others here who follow a similar path, but don't expect nor hope that the whole world does so.

[Telecolor 3007]

Originally Posted by Elfasto

Dude, that is complete BS on the other peoples part. Just because something is old does not mean it's crap. If one of your items is old, but it still performs to factory specs, or it does a better job than a new one, then it's not crap. Doesn't matter what it is. Hell, my dad still uses a Sunbeam toaster that is 35 years old because it still works and it doesn't turn the bread into a chunk of charcoal.

I will still use my old stuff, no matter what they say! I live with the hope than one day more and more peple will understand what true qualty means.
I wished that people here would love old things too - even that they are not Made in Romania or the former Eastern Block. But we have one exception: second-hand cars - but here is also about the price.

Talking about cell phones, mynes are about 5-6 yrs. old. The only thing that bothers me abot them is that they don't ring so loud-so somtimes when I'm on the street or riding public tranpsortation I can't hear them - and I can't block some phone numbers in order thhat people can't call me.

An BIG Off-topic: in the factory near the high-school that I learned was a computer repair shop where they had a lot of old computer components: keybords from the '80's, magnetic tape for computer memory, 386 type computers, computer monitors from the early '90's, 5.25" F.D.D., Romanian made desktop electronic calculators. Because they where forced to moved they dumped all those things... And omse people would have comite murder to have those things... In Romanian, schools, high-schools, univeristyes, state owned companies can't sell the old computers. They must destroy them. The people who are ruling Romania shoul be imprisioned for a long time and theyr's belongings should be confiscated, because they did almost nothing good for the country.

[peverett]

A few things to remember about plastic:
1. Most of it is made from oil, which is getting less cheap all the time.
2. Most of it cannot be re-cycled filling up our landfills. Almost all metal can be re-cycled.
3. There are many applications where metal was used in the past and worked far better than the present plastic that is used-car hubcaps, car radiators, etc. I speak from experience-my 1978 Mustang radiator lasted 25 years, the hubcaps are still the originals. On my wife's car, the plastic hubcaps and radiator began failing at 5 years. I do not think the weight difference is enough to justify this kind of crap.

Many times, US industry takes a very short term view. Plastic may seem cheap in the short term, but will actually turn out to be more expensive for the consumer and society as a whole long term.

This said, the most irritating use of plastic to me is it's use in packaging. You have to practically cut the packaging off, and then it goes straight to a landfill-what a waste. Cardboard would work just as well and could be re-cycled.

[Thyratron]

I think what a lot of us are frustrated about the most, myself included, is not so much that there is so much cheap stuff being manufactured today, but that there is often no alternative to the cheap stuff. I'd be more than happy (thrilled, actually), to spend a little more to get an American-made item of lasting quality (and help the local economy in the process), but almost every time I check the back of a package, it's the same old thing: Made in China, silver plastic, laughable components. It's for this reason that I choose, in most cases, to buy the old stuff; it's built to last, built with quality parts, more stylistically pleasing. I just wish that the high-paid executives at these companies that are so quick to ship production out of the country would realize that there ARE many of us who look at the labels, and that NOT everyone is looking for the cheapest items at the lowest possible cost regardless of anything else; in fact, the real COST to us seems to be coming quickly as our manufacturing dries up to nothing.

[bre's dad]

I can't argue with much posted here. I'm glad to finally find others who share my feelings... I remember when my dad would have to work on an old RCA console TV we had in the mid 70's. He got it when he worked for FCA in the 60's... even had the new fangled sonic clicker remote that rarely worked. It caught fire in our living room and was shortly replaced with a zeinith console, which was replaced with another RCA color track around '83. I was wondering why it had a calculator on the front of it and how you changed the channel. Dad is retiring at the end of the year and went out and bought a 42" Hitachi plasma screen. Mom still screams wanting the old Zeinith back...

I picked up an old 1949 Arvin floor tv from a friend awhile back. It doesn't work and is awaiting for someone to redo it (I don't know what I'm doing). I went to alocal tv repair shop and told them what I had. The guy, though somewhat of an ass, smiled and said he hadn't worked on anything with tubes for about 10 years... said "either people throw 'em out for foreign crap or they'll run another 30 years and he'll be dead before they need rebuilt again." He then showed me his small collection, including an original betamax that was the size of a honda.

I have always had an afinity for the old and archaic. I remember as a kid sitting by (or on when mom wasn't around) the old Maganavox and listening to records. Damn that thing sounded good. Over the weekend, I couldn't help but stop at a yard sale a few blocks over and look at an old Arvin console stereo. The lady said her mom brought it home when she worked at the Arvin factory in town (what once built great electronics equipment now makes little screws...) Well it is now sitting in our basement. Its solid state and needs a lot ot TLC (very scratchy controls, t-table makes no sounds), but the fm sounds good. My 4 year old looked at it before it was opened and wanted to turn it on and dance to it... really cool she knew what it was before anyone told her. Perhaps there is hope? Well, we fired it up and she danced around like a goof ball with her sister, reminding me when I was that age and did the same thing...

[bre's dad]

I would agree that alot of the stuff these days isn't as good or reliable as what it replaced. But too, there was alot of junk way back when too. Main difference was that it was mostly made in the USA rather than China, Korea or some other third world country you can't pronounce. We've pissed away alot of our manufacturing ability and have let foreign investment chip away at this country. Hell, now China is threatening to crash the already falling dollar. That and look how a lot of the goods made in China are being recalled due to too much lead in the paint, cardboard in the food, etc. We went camping a few weeks ago & I took the old green Coleman camp stove that's probably at least 50 years old. Well, after refilling it at the site the O ring on the fuel tank cap fell apart and the stove was useless (wouldn't hold pressure. On those, you pump air into the fuel tank to pressurize it.) I ended up at Wal Mart to look for a new stove, doubting I could find a new seal for a 50 year old camp stove. They had a few models, mostly cheap Chinese made crap that requires a small propane can to screw into the side of it. THey also had a newer version of the old one I had, so we took it home. Still made in the USA. Not only did it work well, but the gas cap (and other parts) would work on the old stove. They said they sell more of that model than the others and often have the others returned. Thought that was cool.

We also have 2 coke machines. Yeah, real ones, the center piece of the shrine to the soft drink also known as our kitchen. One is a 1950 Vendo 88, fully restored and works. Well, it would if plugged in. It had more steel in it than most new cars on the road. We also have a (cheaply made) Chinese reproduction of a 40's Westinghouse Jr. that was designed from original plans (you can take parts off this and use on an original & vise versa.) That thing, though having a nicer powder coated finish than the big one, is already starting to rust and its about 3 years old... Functional and still looks cool. We recently sold a mid 40's original Westinghouse WD-5 cooler (similar but larger than the Jr.) It was made int he USA and weighs a ton, but it had no rust (other than some surface rust, acceptible after 60 years) and gets colder than the 3 year old cheapo Chinese forgery...

OK, that wasn't audio equipment but illustrates some of the points made here that just becasue something is old doesn't make it obsolete and alot ot the Chinese stuff is junk.

I'll stop now...

[NowhereMan 1966]

Originally Posted by Tubejunke

I have posted this before but it fits here. Once a single Mom friend of mine metioned her teenage son badly needing a TV for his room. I had an extra 19" color set with a manual tuner that I offered her for FREE. She declined the gift saying that he would not watch a TV without a REMOTE!!!!!! Give me a break!! Not just is kid somehow entitled to his own personal color television, he also has set standards for what is acceptable. Geez!! Actually I think it was more the Mom's attitude than the kid. Reason being is I spoke to Alex who at 14 was smart enough to know that you can hook up a VCR or a cable box to any old set and have remote control. By that time somebody had already PURCHSED the poor child a REAL tv.

I'm 38 and I remember well getting up EVERY time you changed the channel and it really didnt matter. Really I kind of miss those days. We had a TV guide and a FAMILY tv. We knew at 6:00 Dad would want to watch the CBS or NBC news. After that we would progress to watch a few of the sit coms of the time that WE liked till around 9:00 when the evening movie would come on or some other "special". We only had about 4 or 5 channels to begin with, but that was ENOUGH. As far as a remote goes again it really didnt matter. We might have had to get up 3 or 4 times in an evening. OHHH the torture!!

Imagine not having a freaking TELEPHONE everywhere you go!! This is another modern day trend that I think is ridiculous. I walk around sometimes and feel like I'm in some bad 70's sci-fi movie or something where everyone is talking (or just playing with) a telephone EVERYWHERE you look. As if THAT werent bad enough they came out with that Hounds Tooth or whatever goes in your ear so you can go around looking like some kind of escaped mental patient munbling to your other personality. I really believe people buy those ear devices just to freak people out looking all crazy. I mean COME ON, how important are you, or how busy is your life that you have to have MA Bell wired directly into your brain? I just don't get it!

I guess I'm just missing the days when things just seemed a little more simple and NORMAL. We once had sense enough to figure out that a car door was "AJAR", or that a lit heater was HOT, and the phone was to "reach out and touch someone" and not to be a walking, talking, telecomunication network. It rang a few times a day, or week and I dont remember minding at all putting my finger in the little hole and turning the DIAL.

I'm going to quit before I get into LAPTOP'S..............

I'm 41 and remember all the stuff you talk about. I remember when "The Tick" was on in the late 1990's, someone joked that the TV in the Tick's and Arthur's apartment "had knobs." All I can say is those Hounds Tooth (Blue Tooth, IIRC) people make me feel like I'm Woody Allen who just woke up in "Sleeper." They sort of remind me of Star Trek Borgs. Who knows, maybe in 2000 years, we will be "The Borg." In my mind, the song "In the Year 2525" popped into my mind and you know what, it really makes you think.

[holmesuser01]

I just tried to give my 7 year old nephew a 13" TV/VCR combo that I found and repaired. New flyback. Even had the remote. Took it to his house, hooked it up. Nephew said nothing. Later, I got it back. Kid wouldnt watch it. Not big enough. Wants at least a 32" set! I DONT EVEN HAVE ONE THAT BIG! Mine is a 1990's 27" Sony!

I gave the TV/VCR to another friend, whose 16 year old son seems to appreciate the gift. He thanks me for the TV everytime I see him, and that makes me feel good.

I manage a movie theatre. Many times, someone will be on the phone and buying tickets at the same time. Cant they even stop talking long enough to get the deal made for the tickets? Its so RUDE!

[radiotvnut]

Originally Posted by holmesuser01

I just tried to give my 7 year old nephew a 13" TV/VCR combo that I found and repaired. New flyback. Even had the remote. Took it to his house, hooked it up. Nephew said nothing. Later, I got it back. Kid wouldnt watch it. Not big enough. Wants at least a 32" set! I DONT EVEN HAVE ONE THAT BIG! Mine is a 1990's 27" Sony!

I gave the TV/VCR to another friend, whose 16 year old son seems to appreciate the gift. He thanks me for the TV everytime I see him, and that makes me feel good.

I manage a movie theatre. Many times, someone will be on the phone and buying tickets at the same time. Cant they even stop talking long enough to get the deal made for the tickets? Its so RUDE!

Let's see, I turned 7 in Dec '83. That was about the time my parents let me use their spare 9" GE B&W TV in my room. No cable, no remote; but, I was thrilled to death! Heck, our main TV, at that time, was a 19" RCA color with a rotary tuner. I didn't have a color set in my room until I was a teenager. The problem with some kids today is that they are given whatever they want by their parents and they think they deserve the best (for nothing). I was raised by older parents and they always taught me to thank others for their kindness. Had you given me a 13" remote control TV/VCR at age seven; you would have heard me squeal with delight all over town. Even to this day, there is not a TV in the house bigger than 19" and it suits me just fine. If I ever have kids; they can watch what I provide for them or do without.

I want even comment on the phone issue...

[NowhereMan 1966]

Originally Posted by holmesuser01

I just tried to give my 7 year old nephew a 13" TV/VCR combo that I found and repaired. New flyback. Even had the remote. Took it to his house, hooked it up. Nephew said nothing. Later, I got it back. Kid wouldnt watch it. Not big enough. Wants at least a 32" set! I DONT EVEN HAVE ONE THAT BIG! Mine is a 1990's 27" Sony!

I gave the TV/VCR to another friend, whose 16 year old son seems to appreciate the gift. He thanks me for the TV everytime I see him, and that makes me feel good.

I manage a movie theatre. Many times, someone will be on the phone and buying tickets at the same time. Cant they even stop talking long enough to get the deal made for the tickets? Its so RUDE!

Glad you found someone to appreciate it. I know myself when I was 9 in 1975, I got my first TV set, an RCA 12 inch B&W portable and I was happy as a pig in mud. I'd love a 13" combo if I was a kid or even today. I think we live in too much of a "gimmee" society and this will be our downfall if we don't watch it.

[dr.ido]

I also got my first TV set when I was 9, though that was in 1987 for me. It was a Kriesler 9" B&W solid state set that came with a pair of pliers to change channels (I never did find a knob for it). I couldn't have a bigger set, my parents wouldn't let me. I had to turn down a Healing 23" B&W hybrid set that someone offered me.

[bgadow]

In about 1980 my sisters and I got a tv of our own-a 1961 GE bw portable. It was in their room so not much fun for me. A couple years later I got a tv of my own. Wow, I was lucky! A 1967 GE table model color set, big 23v set! I did complain about it a lot, though. Terrible color, cataracts, the UHF didn't work. I later saved up enough to by a 12" bw Midland from Western Auto, the only new tv I have ever bought.