Today I finished up some small details and mounted the chassis back into the cabinet. I still have to polish up the knobs, make the back, redo the labels, and add some longer speaker wires. Getting real close.

Just an update on the alignment.

I decided to check the tuner and work back through the TV. When checking the tuner on channel 3 it wouldn't align. The frequencies were too far off. I then decided to check channel 4 and sure enough the freq. were much closer, so I decided to use channel 4 instead of channel 3. Channel 4 aligned perfectly with the waveform and frequencies where they should be.

Then on the the IF section. Again the IF section aligned great with a correct waveform and on frequency.

I used a meter to align the first step in the 4.5mc audio section. But the 2nd step didn't work out so well. I never could get the meter to zero out. I hooked up the sweep generator and o'scope and peaked per step 1, but never could get the cross over pattern in step 2. I ended up just tweaking by ear.


Oh, I also used Wallace Teleaides to check the run updates and some cures for other problems. Looks like my TV is from run 5 and I installed the retrace mod, both vertical and horizontal picture was too large so I followed the steps to reduce those. I added some resistance and shorted out another resistor.

All-in-all the TV is playing very well. The picture tube isn't as bright and clear as I would like it, but it never did test into the green very far. I'm happy with the results so far.

Stay tuned for final pictures and report.

Just an update on the alignment.

I decided to check the tuner and work back through the TV. When checking the tuner on channel 3 it wouldn't align. The frequencies were too far off. I then decided to check channel 4 and sure enough the freq. were much closer, so I decided to use channel 4 instead of channel 3. Channel 4 aligned perfectly with the waveform and frequencies where they should be.

Then on the the IF section. Again the IF section aligned great with a correct waveform and on frequency.

I used a meter to align the first step in the 4.5mc audio section. But the 2nd step didn't work out so well. I never could get the meter to zero out. I hooked up the sweep generator and o'scope and peaked per step 1, but never could get the cross over pattern in step 2. I ended up just tweaking by ear.


Oh, I also used Wallace Teleaides to check the run updates and some cures for other problems. Looks like my TV is from run 5 and I installed the retrace mod, both vertical and horizontal picture was too large so I followed the steps to reduce those. I added some resistance and shorted out another resistor.

All-in-all the TV is playing very well. The picture tube isn't as bright and clear as I would like it, but it never did test into the green very far. I'm happy with the results so far.

Stay tuned for final pictures and report.
I don't think there was as many 14" rectangular sets built at the time, so the 14CP4 isn't that plentiful. It seems, Admiral and a few others came out with sets using the 16TP4 rectangular CRT, just a little later.
4,5 years later, the 14H/QP4 came out for smaller screen portables, like the Emerson and GE. They seem to be more plentiful and they use the identical glass, but are self focusing. :scratch2:

Just an update on the alignment.
I decided to check the tuner and work back through the TV. When checking the tuner on channel 3 it wouldn't align. The frequencies were too far off. I then decided to check channel 4 and sure enough the freq. were much closer, so I decided to use channel 4 instead of channel 3. Channel 4 aligned perfectly with the waveform and frequencies where they should be.
So if I'm following this you injected the correct rf carrier signal into the antenna terminals for the selected channel? If so possibly the rf and oscillator coils for Ch 3 are interchanged with some other channel on the tuner drum.


I used a meter to align the first step in the 4.5mc audio section. But the 2nd step didn't work out so well. I never could get the meter to zero out. I hooked up the sweep generator and o'scope and peaked per step 1, but never could get the cross over pattern in step 2. I ended up just tweaking by ear.


Were you using a vacuum tube voltmeter? Otherwise a standard 20,000 ohms per volt meter will load that circuit and you'll never get it to zero. You could also use a scope set to DC coupling.

Yes, I was using my VTVM. Next time I'll double check on the DC coupling. I just checked the scope settings and they were on AC coupling. that could have been the problem?

I finished making a new back. The original had several flaws besides the upper mounting holes being enlarged as to be ineffective.

The right side back brace was located too high and interfered with the upper mounting boss. This skewed the whole back and it warped badly from the chassis screws forcing the back back into position. With the brace too high this brought the whole edge down low and the bottom of the back overlapped the bottom of the cabinet. Also somewhere along the way, the interlock on the chassis was changed out probably because of the extreme pressure of the mal-aligned back.

All of these problems were corrected with the new back. I also added 2 1/16 ply shims to the back which runs up against the chassis so when the mounting screws are tightened, they won't warp the back. This is due to the metal interlock bracket. I used some Dewalt brad-point drill bits to drill the holes.

I changed the power cord and made up some new labels too.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Admiral%2014R12%201950%20TV/100_4983a_zpsttr334yt.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Admiral%2014R12%201950%20TV/100_4983a_zpsttr334yt.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Admiral%2014R12%201950%20TV/100_4971a_zpsmbbetuqb.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Admiral%2014R12%201950%20TV/100_4971a_zpsmbbetuqb.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Admiral%2014R12%201950%20TV/100_4977a_zpsygdfjis9.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Admiral%2014R12%201950%20TV/100_4977a_zpsygdfjis9.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Admiral%2014R12%201950%20TV/100_4978a_zps4fogr0t3.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Admiral%2014R12%201950%20TV/100_4978a_zps4fogr0t3.jpg.html)

I polished up the knobs and finished the project today. In reality, I still need the metal insert that goes into the channel selector knob. I must have lost it when at my daughters house.

I'd like to thank everyone who helped me get this one done. I learned a lot and you guys have spent some time with me helping me through the process. Thank you.

Here are the final pics.

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Admiral%2014R12%201950%20TV/100_4979a_zpseucrqsp1.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Admiral%2014R12%201950%20TV/100_4979a_zpseucrqsp1.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Admiral%2014R12%201950%20TV/100_4985a_zpswovyftlq.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Admiral%2014R12%201950%20TV/100_4985a_zpswovyftlq.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Admiral%2014R12%201950%20TV/100_4967a_zpsxjykvlt7.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Admiral%2014R12%201950%20TV/100_4967a_zpsxjykvlt7.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Admiral%2014R12%201950%20TV/100_4969a_zpsbyz5p3ov.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Admiral%2014R12%201950%20TV/100_4969a_zpsbyz5p3ov.jpg.html)

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/crigotti/Admiral%2014R12%201950%20TV/100_4970a_zpskr9vbzjo.jpg (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/crigotti/media/Admiral%2014R12%201950%20TV/100_4970a_zpskr9vbzjo.jpg.html)

Yes, I was using my VTVM. Next time I'll double check on the DC coupling. I just checked the scope settings and they were on AC coupling. that could have been the problem?

Yes, at that point you're measuring a DC voltage that varies plus and minus.

Holy cow, that back looks like the real deal, excellent work!!

Yes, at that point you're measuring a DC voltage that varies plus and minus.

Holy cow, that back looks like the real deal, excellent work!!

Thank you Kevin.

I'm not sure they looked that good when they were new! Awesome! :-)

I'm not sure they looked that good when they were new! Awesome! :-)

Thanks.

If you restore it any further I do believe it will start picking up broadcasts from the 50's. :D

Nicely done.

Thanks.

I did find a station that was airing an episode of "Lassie". :)

Well, I located a pencil box door! It'll ship this week. Then this restoration will be truly be finished. Thanks Benman94.

Awesome job, bro. :thmbsp: Is the height maybe a bit stretched, or is that the aspect ratio of the picture?

Awesome job, bro. :thmbsp: Is the height maybe a bit stretched, or is that the aspect ratio of the picture?

Thanks for the kind words.

According to the test patterns, the picture is correctly set up. My guess is that another picture of the TV playing would look a lot better.

I saw that commercial on one of my sets....That little girl is a real bean pole....She is like some of those cartoons that mocked Frank Sinatra for being skinny.

Fantastic restoration of rarely seen early rectangular set. :thmbsp:

I could be wrong, but it looks like 16:9 video compressed in width to 4:3... look at the shape of the lamp in the background, those were nearly spherical.

What was the source of the video?

jr

Wow. That is some fantastic restoration. I'm impressed.

Did you replace every resistor in this set? I thought I saw a reference to that earlier in this thread.
What did you paint the chassis with? It looks great.

Wow. That is some fantastic restoration. I'm impressed.

Did you replace every resistor in this set? I thought I saw a reference to that earlier in this thread.
What did you paint the chassis with? It looks great.

Thanks.

Every resistor, except 1 in the tuner, every paper, every electrolytic, and every mica cap was replaced. A few tubes and the doorknob cap was also replaced.

After cleaning and getting rid of the rust etc, I primered the chassis with Rust-Oleum automotive grey sandable primer #2081. Then a light sanding to remove the surface "goobers", then 2 coats of Rust-Oleum Metallic Matte Nickel #7277830.

You have done an AMAZING job on restoring this set!!!! My most sincere congratulations!!!

Curious still, why did you feel the need to replace all the resistors and mica's? Most restorers only replace the electrolytics, paper caps and then resistors that measure out of tolerance.

You have done an AMAZING job on restoring this set!!!! My most sincere congratulations!!!

Thank you.

Curious still, why did you feel the need to replace all the resistors and mica's? Most restorers only replace the electrolytics, paper caps and then resistors that measure out of tolerance.

Because you have to replace all the electrolytics and paper caps, there were like maybe 6 micas left. They have been known to got bad. So why not replace them too? There cost isn't too much either. Also it eliminates problems down the road. Say a mica still works, but then several hours it decides to quit. Then you have to go back and pull the chassis, trouble shoot the problem, replace the mica, maybe do another alignment, then put it back together. Seems the risks and rewards aren't worth NOT replacing the micas. Also when replacing the paper caps, most of the time there is a resistor on the terminal too. So you pull the cap lead off, why not the resistor too?

As far as the resistors go, what do they cost? Maybe 14 cents each? Some you have to lift 1 leg to measure. Half way to replacing it already. So it measures on the high side tolerance and you don't replace it. Same situation as a mica.

Also this is a hobby to me. I enjoy replacing those components, cleaning, painting, polishing, etc. This way, when I'm done with a restoration, most of the troublesome parts have been replaced with a modern (re: a better) component and I can expect a long life of excellent use.

I know some guys do a "restoration" by replacing just what is needed to get it going again. To me that is like putting 2 gallons in the tank when you can fill er up! But I'm not criticizing them it's just what they do. This is how I do my restorations. Everybody sees this hobby through their own set of eyes and gets out of it what they want to. Neither is right or wrong. But different approaches.

I hear you. Micas rarely go bad, but I have been hearing more and more reports of them failing lately. As long as you are having fun, that is the most important thing. I was just curious. Great job on the restoration.

I hear you. Micas rarely go bad, but I have been hearing more and more reports of them failing lately. As long as you are having fun, that is the most important thing. I was just curious. Great job on the restoration.

Thank you.

Because you have to replace all the electrolytics and paper caps, there were like maybe 6 micas left. They have been known to got bad. So why not replace them too? There cost isn't too much either. Also it eliminates problems down the road. Say a mica still works, but then several hours it decides to quit. Then you have to go back and pull the chassis, trouble shoot the problem, replace the mica, maybe do another alignment, then put it back together. Seems the risks and rewards aren't worth NOT replacing the micas. Also when replacing the paper caps, most of the time there is a resistor on the terminal too. So you pull the cap lead off, why not the resistor too?

As far as the resistors go, what do they cost? Maybe 14 cents each? Some you have to lift 1 leg to measure. Half way to replacing it already. So it measures on the high side tolerance and you don't replace it. Same situation as a mica.

Also this is a hobby to me. I enjoy replacing those components, cleaning, painting, polishing, etc. This way, when I'm done with a restoration, most of the troublesome parts have been replaced with a modern (re: a better) component and I can expect a long life of excellent use.

I know some guys do a "restoration" by replacing just what is needed to get it going again. To me that is like putting 2 gallons in the tank when you can fill er up! But I'm not criticizing them it's just what they do. This is how I do my restorations. Everybody sees this hobby through their own set of eyes and gets out of it what they want to. Neither is right or wrong. But different approaches.

"Another alignment"?...If you leave the original micas and resistors in the IF system it should never need an alignment after leaving the factory that made it. Micas known to go bad?...Yeah in SWEEP circuits that never need 'alignment', and aside from some early (630 era) RCAs non-sweep circuit micas are a rare exception....Changing IF micas is like swapping an engine in a GM car at 20K miles because you heard about this guy that bought a lemon that had it's block crack at 20K....Your putting a lot of time and effort into something that is a 1 in 1k issue that won't have significant odds of happening to your set for another 2-6 decades (depending on past & future storage conditions).

Resistors are a toss up I usually leave them till I've done a recap power up....Many sets are fine and have sustained years of regular use in my hands with original resistors, and often it is not worth the effort alone of changing them. Though I have had sets that spent years (decades?) outside where all resistors were off tolerance and drifty, and in that case shotgunning resistors was merited.

As for replacing just enough parts to make a set work: The merit of that depends on the age and (slightly on the) storage conditions of the set. Paper caps are like milk, film caps (such as orange drops) are like salt....Makers transitioned cap types around 1960 (there is about a 3 year margin of error by maker). Sets made before the transition need a full recap if they are to see any kind of regular duty...I can see powering up an original and if it works keeping it original and powering it up for a minute every few months to see if it still works, but expecting to last a half hour every week is unrealistic. Sets made after the transition often are somewhat immortal...They will often work as found and require approximately the same amount of maintenance as they would have in the first 5 years of their existence....That I feel is a reasonable expectation for a set of that vintage.
To me the most fun part of the hobby (except maybe for the hunt) is troubleshooting. So if a set becomes too reliable and never needs routine service it quickly fades into the wall paper. (Also every problem you solve with a shotgun is knowledge you missed the chance to learn.) I expect my daily use sets to need help every 6 months to 3 years (and it is usually something I can fix in an evening or less), and so did their original owners...IMHO If you can* achieve better than new reliability then you loose the experience of owning a classic and may as well have a box with a LCD flat panel set in it.

*I Honestly doubt you can since heat is the enemy of parts, and modern components by and large were not designed to bake in a tube set...It may be solid for 5-7 years of use but once you've baked the new parts long enough it will slide right back down hill.

Tom,

Like I said " Everybody sees this hobby through their own set of eyes and gets out of it what they want to. Neither is right or wrong. But different approaches."

Tom,

Like I said " Everybody sees this hobby through their own set of eyes and gets out of it what they want to. Neither is right or wrong. But different approaches."

True, and if nothing else you've explored an interesting and unconventional approach to circuitry restoration in tube TVs. It definitely is a case study I can see people referencing when a majority of micas start to hit their expiration date.

I'm glad I can be of some help to other people. I have certainly gotten a lot of help from others on this forum.

Not so fast buckos! Micas arr starting to go bad with a lot more frequency today. Ask me how I know this..

George

Not so fast buckos! Micas arr starting to go bad with a lot more frequency today. Ask me how I know this..

George

Are you taking about sweep stage micas, IF stage micas or all micas? Sweep micas have been known issues in TVs for years (if you put 400-1500V pulses through any cap it's life will shorten), but IF stage micas * are under very little strain (~120VDC+ a few mV of signal) and tend to be near 100 percent reliable (ignoring RCA 630 chassis).

*if you ignore the oddball ones in the IF cans that produce SMD.

In 99% of sets the IF micas are perfectly fine and will remain so...Sweep micas on the other hand if not bad are often a repair waiting to happen.

I have found bad micas in the RF section of a tube radio. I used to just ASSUME they are good but after a few trouble shooting bouts I no longer feel that way.

Gregb

Regarding the commonly used Micamold, Sangamo, & Aerovox mica capacitors (low capacitance), These too, are injection molded capacitors & can also fail the same way as the larger paper capacitors. that is because of moisture can penetrate them & contaminate the foil that is used in them & cause it to deteriorate. although there may be no DC leakage unlike the paper types, the capacitance will change. i have seen this many times in recent years.

Are you taking about sweep stage micas, IF stage micas or all micas? Sweep micas have been known issues in TVs for years (if you put 400-1500V pulses through any cap it's life will shorten), but IF stage micas * are under very little strain (~120VDC+ a few mV of signal) and tend to be near 100 percent reliable (ignoring RCA 630 chassis).

*if you ignore the oddball ones in the IF cans that produce SMD.

In 99% of sets the IF micas are perfectly fine and will remain so...Sweep micas on the other hand if not bad are often a repair waiting to happen.

I've seen it in both.

George

In this TV, the Admiral 14R12 there are a total of 10 mica caps used. 1 is a high voltage (1500V) in the yoke which was not replaced, 3 in the RF/IF section, and the rest from the IF section on.

So out of 9 micas, there appears to be no problem replacing those 6 in the sweep circuits etc. That leaves 3 120pf micas (C17, C18, and C24) that seem to be subject of whether to change them or not. These cost me $2.39 each because I ordered 1% caps. A total of $7.17 for the 3. I do think the parts list listed at least 1 of them 3% hence why I got all three at 1% from Just Radios. I know overkill.

I replaced 9 electrolytics, 29 paper caps, 8 disc caps, and 9 micas. A total of 55 caps. To me changing 52 caps and then changing 3 more to have them all changed just makes better sense to me. Especially when we are warned not to even move the micas because it can cause the lead/case seal to fail and that will lead to problems down the road. This can happen when changing the resistors, etc. So I just change them to eliminate any problems, if any, by keeping 65 year old micas.

As several other posters have said, they do find micas in the RF/IF section failed.

I know there are those who really enjoy trouble shooting and good for you. I enjoy just as much a finished product that was made as good/better? as new when I'm finished and I don't have to wonder if an old component that I could have changed and didn't is going to fail latter on.

If I had a good source for the very low value ceramics, I'd probably look close into changing them as well.

Like I said " Everybody sees this hobby through their own set of eyes and gets out of it what they want to. Neither is right or wrong. But different approaches."

Especially when we are warned not to even move the micas because it can cause the lead/case seal to fail and that will lead to problems down the road.

Where did you hear that? I've always heard and understand the merit of not changing the lead dress in TV and FM because at those frequencies the small change in capacitance is similar in electrical effect to turning a slug in that circuit a few times.

Where did you hear that? I've always heard and understand the merit of not changing the lead dress in TV and FM because at those frequencies the small change in capacitance is similar in electrical effect to turning a slug in that circuit a few times.

I've read that on the Forums I visit. Either the Philco PHorum, ARF, or this one.

I've also been made aware of lead dress.

EDIT- I went to the ARF Elecrtical/Mechanical forum and did a search using "mica leads". I came across at least 6 different posts about the problem with micas and their leads being twisted or moved.

Like I said " Everybody sees this hobby through their own set of eyes and gets out of it what they want to. Neither is right or wrong. But different approaches."

Well said!

I agree Crist, I have read many times before not to twist or move the leads of these bakelite micas too much as you can break the seal. How much merit that statement has, I don't know. For all I know, the seal was never really there from the go. As for lead dress, it should be kept as similar to the factory as you can. If you go through all this trouble, the set in my opinion should be re-aligned anyway, so minor changes in the lead dress will be a non issue.

Crist,
You did a fantastic job on your Admiral 14R12.
What did you use to clean / polish the plastic screen?
Ed

Crist,
You did a fantastic job on your Admiral 14R12.
What did you use to clean / polish the plastic screen?
Ed

Thank you!

3M Headlight Polishing Kit.

OK, I got the pencil box door. The escutcheon that it came with while being the correct part number the rev code is different and when compared to the one on the TV, there are slight differences mostly in the printing size and slightly different locations. My guess only a trained eye would catch the differences.

With that said, does anybody know how to remove the pencil box door clips and the door so I can use them on the correct escutcheon? Of course I'm being careful here not wanting to break anything.

Thanks.

With that said, does anybody know how to remove the pencil box door clips and the door so I can use them on the correct escutcheon? Of course I'm being careful here not wanting to break anything.

Thanks.

With the door open flat lift the spring tab out of the pocket in the escutcheon and slide the spring away from the door(to the right in the picture). There's usually a piece of tape originally covering the tab end. Take note of the curvature in the spring so it's replace in the same orientation.

http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq245/Kuehn/VK%20Pictures/Admiral20Pencil20Box20Door20Spring20Removal20002_z pspx1pf2j5.jpg?t=1479941434

Kevin,
Worked perfect. I can breathe now! Thanks.