Found this in the local classifieds.

Seems pretty damn overpriced for unknown condition. Am inquiring to seller to see what I can find out.

http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-furniture-other-Antique-Sparton-The-Ardmoor-5079-Television-TV-W0QQAdIdZ328449769

Thoughts or comments from the crowd?

The main problem is that the set, according to Mapquest, is approximately 53 hours driving time, or 3391.43 miles from your approximate location.

Might want to wait for one closer ;)

I found it in Riders Vol 7. It uses a 16KP4/16RP4 CRT and looks like a good design with 4 video IF stages and inter-carrier sound.

Here's the schematic (http://www.bobandersen.com/images/schematics/sparton/5079/sparton%205079%20riders%207-12.jpg) for those interested.

The main problem is that the set, according to Mapquest, is approximately 53 hours driving time, or 3391.43 miles from your approximate location.

Might want to wait for one closer ;)

Why do you say that? According to the map on the site, it's about 10 kliks from me :D (and VERY far away from all you hoarders south of the border...)

My bad, why was I thinking you were out towards BC?

Dunno, I probably mentioned I was on the coast in one of my posts and you automatically equated it with BC?

I heard back from the seller - it is unrestored, and of course, "worked when last used"... bought about 5 years ago from an antique store.
I did specifically ask them not to plug it in and find out if it still does.

What would be a reasonable offer to make, given this info?

Value depends so much on location. Where I live, on the West coast of the USA near Seattle, $225 would be an unreasonable price. The seller might be lucky to get $125, in fact, since TV collectors are few and far between and the cost of shipping would exceed the TV's value. Thus, the major market for this kind of set is local people who want a (probably non-working) decoration.

A 1950 TV is kind of on the cusp between the more desirable 1940s sets and the generally almost-worthless 1950s B/W consoles. On the plus side, this one is attractive, with the gold bezel & pencil box, and big knobs. It's also well engineered, according to bandersen, and the screen's big enough that you could actually enjoy watching it.

How plentiful are old TVs in Nova Scotia? How many other TVs have you found within driving distance? How did their condition compare to this one? How were they priced?

If you only have room for one console in your house, is this the one you'd like to live with indefinitely, even if something more exciting crawls out of the woodwork next week?

Those are questions that only you can answer.

If it were for sale here, I wouldn't buy it, period, because my place is crammed and there's nothing miraculous about this set that would justify substituting it for something I already own. If it appeared on the local craiglist, I'd expect it to sell in the $50 - $100 range, if at all.

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

P.S. If you own a CRT tester, bring it along when you go to look at the TV. If the CRT looks weak, give them the rap about how a new one might cost $100 or more, if you could even find one.

This is the first tube-based TV I've seen for sale in the area... which means the answer to a lot of those things is undefined. It's been posted since the 7th, so it isn't exactly flying out the door.

Space isn't a major issue, I have a bunch of computer stuff I could get rid of (and probably going to _have_ to get rid of in the future.)

I don't have a CRT tester, unfortunately - and that's another hiccup; my diagnostics equipment consists of what's between my ears and a multimeter... (and a variac I can borrow)... which means I'd have to invest in some of that too... which is quite a chunk of change.

Perhaps it's the wrong attitude, but I'm really in it for the fun/challenge of the restoration, getting a working, enjoyable set out of it is just a bonus in the end.

Ultimately, it's not so much what the set is worth as what the market will bear. I just hope nobody's buying :)
That's the part I hate about this - people expect a princely sum for their stuff, and you can't help but feel they think you're lowballing when you explain why it's worth nowhere near that much.

Yeah, what Phil said.

Desireability of the Set, plus location, location, and location.

Personally, I'd stay away from it, but then again, there's no shortage of desireable 1946-49 TVs in my immediate area.

With me, I really have to be knocked over by a TV before I buy another one. Twelve working sets is enough.

Then again, there's this one set I just saw closeby....no...never mind.:smoke:

Perhaps it's the wrong attitude, but I'm really in it for the fun/challenge of the restoration, getting a working, enjoyable set out of it is just a bonus in the end.
Not a wrong attitude at all. Once a restoration is finished, I'm more eager to start the next project than to sit down and watch the last TV that I restored.

None of us can hope to recover what we invest in these old TVs. If you view this as entertainment, then spending $100 or $200 on a project that gives you, say, 20 or 30 hours of enjoyment is not unreasonable. Around here, you can spend $10 for 1.5 hours of entertainment at a movie theater, and that doesn't include popcorn!

Phil Nelson

What is a reasonable selling price is whatever one can get for an item.

What is a reasonable buying price depends on your opinion.

The most I've yet spent on a TV was 120$. Two diferent sets share that investment amount, a beautiful blond 1959 Zenith, and a Silvertone color roundy, only on the roundy will I be likely to recover my investment on should I be forced to sell.

But the Zenith was my third set, and almost worked perfectly (I wanted a working monochrome set real bad), so I bought it at that high price anyway. And I'm fine with my investment I love to stare at the thing even when it is turned off, and would have a hard time trying to get myself to sell it even if I needed to.

Agreed.
I'll keep you folks posted on any developments. In my case though, it's 'beggars can't be choosers'... been wanting to get in to TVs since my tube radio project, and have seen exactly zero for sale within the area since then. I'd be satisfied with owning just one... so if the price drops within my means, you'll see a resto thread on it shortly.

Not a wrong attitude at all. Once a restoration is finished, I'm more eager to start the next project than to sit down and watch the last TV that I restored.

None of us can hope to recover what we invest in these old TVs. If you view this as entertainment, then spending $100 or $200 on a project that gives you, say, 20 or 30 hours of enjoyment is not unreasonable. Around here, you can spend $10 for 1.5 hours of entertainment at a movie theater, and that doesn't include popcorn!

Phil Nelson

And I thought I was the only one that felt that way!!!

What is a reasonable selling price is whatever one can get for an item.

What is a reasonable buying price depends on your opinion.

The most I've yet spent on a TV was 120$. ...

But the Zenith was my third set, and almost worked perfectly (I wanted a working monochrome set real bad), so I bought it at that high price anyway. And I'm fine with my investment I love to stare at the thing even when it is turned off,....

Sounds like me when I paid a wad for this Aussie tube radio, a Tasma 1001 Baby. http://www.wa2ise.com/radios/Tasma1001baby.jpg Love the looks. And the little map of Australia in the center of teh dial is cool. And the fact that I didn't spend much on old radios in the past several months let myself spend the bucks. It was already restored, though I replaced a resistor to improve reception a little (a screen supply to the 6A8 and the IF tube drifted high, feeding too low a voltage and made local strong stations distort too much). It's happy with American 240V@60Hz, which I ran a special circuit from the breaker panel to a very old American made Aussie pattern outlet http://www.wa2ise.com/radios/americanaussieoutlet

I just came home from a month in Australia and brought home a plug and double switched outlet. I figure that sooner or later, I will be bringing some Australian electronics home and I may as well be getting ready. My daughter lives there and I make frequent trips to Oz...

Sounds like me when I paid a wad for this Aussie tube radio, a Tasma 1001 Baby. http://www.wa2ise.com/radios/Tasma1001baby.jpg Love the looks. And the little map of Australia in the center of teh dial is cool. And the fact that I didn't spend much on old radios in the past several months let myself spend the bucks. It was already restored, though I replaced a resistor to improve reception a little (a screen supply to the 6A8 and the IF tube drifted high, feeding too low a voltage and made local strong stations distort too much). It's happy with American 240V@60Hz, which I ran a special circuit from the breaker panel to a very old American made Aussie pattern outlet http://www.wa2ise.com/radios/americanaussieoutlet

If memory serves, you can easily run 50Hz equipment on 60Hz. The problems occur when you try to do it the other way around - the 60Hz transformer doesn't need to be as beefy for a given wattage, and is incapable of producing sufficient power at 50Hz.

That's correct, 60Hz will handle 50Hz in most cases (i.e., if the supply is at all adequate for its intended purpose)

I like that Sparton. Not a real common brand. Looks like a nice clean full door console. You might take a chance and power it up on your visit. If there's no snap, crackle or pop and the picture tube provides a raster, quickly unplug it and buy it. You only live once, so enjoy.

-Steve D.

You said you had access to a Variac...why not whip up a dim-bulb tester to bring along? Something you'd probably use in the future as well.

Agreed.
I'll keep you folks posted on any developments. In my case though, it's 'beggars can't be choosers'... been wanting to get in to TVs since my tube radio project, and have seen exactly zero for sale within the area since then. I'd be satisfied with owning just one... so if the price drops within my means, you'll see a resto thread on it shortly.

I was thinking the same way... a year ago I had an old tube colour TV I acquired nearly 20 years ago, and came to this site wanting to repair it. In day to day life, it's very rare to see an all tube TV around here, too. (Edmonton Alberta, Canada)

Started keeping my eyes open (and reading all about TVs on here nearly every day), and now I have 5 all tube tv's, including the original one. They are out there! That said, considering you'll likely spend dozens and dozens of hours working on it, if you value your time, I don't think spending a bit more up front for something nice is a bad idea. (think old cars) Just make sure you buy one you actually want, and not because of rarity... they are large, and hard to get rid of.

I say go take a look at it too. Maybe you can negotiate a lower price ?

One bit of warning though. If the CRT is bad, replacements for those early 16" CRTs (16KP4/16RP4/16TP4) can be a little hard to find.

If memory serves, you can easily run 50Hz equipment on 60Hz. The problems occur when you try to do it the other way around ....

To a first order approximation, the higher the frequency the smaller and less turns you need for the primary and secondaries for the same voltage. A 50Hz transformer running at 60Hz can take a higher input voltage before its core saturates, roughly 6/5 higher. But a 60Hz transforemr run at 50Hz can take only 5/6 the input voltage, unless it was overdesigned with enough margin to avoid care saturation. Sometimes you find a power transformer made for 25Hz, it can take 12/5 higher input voltage (assuming the insulation inside it can take it, especially the B+ windings). But if you do that, all the secondaries will have proportionally higher voltages too. Sometimes you find mil surplus equipment that was used in airplanes, and airplanes used 400Hz, speciffically to keep the weight down. You cannot use those power transformers on regular 60Hz, unless you only apply about 18V to the 120V@400Hz primary. 60/400 And the secondaries will also deliver only 6/40 as much voltage, not too terribly useful...

When i was 15 i built 50 watt CW transmitter from the schematic published in a Heathkit catalog, then decided to Heising-modulate it (plate modulate the final) for voice. Used a pair of 25 cycle TV power transformers hooked back-to-back (primary to primary), with the HV winding of the first tranny run by push-pull 6L6s, and the HV winding of the second tranny in series with B+ feeding the RF final stage (two 6DQ6s in parallel). The trannys had pretty sharp rolloff above 5 kc (kilocycles in those days), ideal for voice while keeping the bandwidth tight. The modulator was on a separate chassis from the transmitter, with its own power supply.
At that age i didn't understand about core saturation but apparently the big trannys avoided it, as the rig ran spectacularly well and the modulation envelope scoped at 70% with no sign of clipping.

I'll definitely see about going out to take a look - I haven't heard back from them since the initial response.

My RCA TV was made in Canada in the late '40's. Toronto hydroelectric power from Niagara was still 25Hz and radios and the earliest Canadian TVs had to contend with large transformers.

I photographed the mammoth 25Hz power transformer of my RCA 8T243. The set was built in Montreal in 1949 and is claimed to be the first television manufactured in Canada. Certainly, it was the first RCA television made in Canada. The set is essentially the same as its Camden counterpart except for the power supply and the Video IF transformers. Note the Canadian sets had brass threaded screw adjustments and the Camden sets had threaded ferrite slugs.

TV broadcasting did not begin in Canada until September 1952, when CBC stations CBLT (Toronto) and CBMT (Montreal) commenced. My set from Toronto would have initially been tuned to the sole signal in the area, WBEN (Buffalo Evening News) channel 4, which then carried NBC, CBS and DuMont programming.

Note also the label which was affixed to all Canadian TVs until about 1953 warning forfeiture by His/Her Majesty if you did not pay the licence fee.

Whelp... this journey is at an end for me. I tentatively ran the idea of acquiring a tube tv by the house "management". This was the almost immediate answer:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/entries/icons/original/000/007/423/untitle.JPG?1320093494

Boy, do I need to find my own place soon... hehe.

Sorry to hear that-I was looking forward to yr purchase & restoration of said Sparton...I'm sort of the same situation as you are in a way-There ain't DIDDLEYSQUAT for old TVs here...We didn't have a local station til '54, so you virtually NEVER see an interesting REALLY early set "In the Wild"...About the best you can hope for is scoring the odd RCA "8PT" style set from '56 or so...MAYBE a beat-to-Sh!t old color roundie...But that's about it.

Penthode, that transformer looks be bigger than the CRT!

VintagePC, I laughed so hard at that photo.

That's not a transformer you want to drop on your foot... for sure.

Sandy: well, at least this doesn't end with me buying it followed by an "Ah HATE yew..." :D I've been spared from the hate!

Electronic: Yeah, it's from a collection of what are called "rage faces" (More info (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rage_comic)). Despite being generally simplistic in style, they capture the exact expression(s) involved very well. - and that is the face I was more-or-less met with along with the answer.

Comically massive transformers on the older 25Hz radios and TVs were very unique to sets made in Canada .

I often wondered why 25Hz remained so long in Toronto. Certainly it offered a degree of trade protectionism since you could not back then buy a radio or TV in the US and simply plug it in in Toronto.

[QUOTE=VintagePC;3018566]

Sandy: well, at least this doesn't end with me buying it followed by an "Ah HATE yew..." :D I've been spared from the hate!

Oh, I hope NOBODY really actually BELIEVES that I "Hate" them when I say that...Sorta MY way of sayin' that I think you made a H3LLUVA great Score, & I'm maybe just a tad jealous...But GLAD at the same time that one of "Us" got the old TV/Radio, & it likely WON'T end up in a landfill or doin' Fishtank duty...(grin)

Since I'm still living with my folks let me offer some advise. When you want something like a large console, and you know they are against electronic gear you have to pitch it to them the right way.....For instance don't say "I'm thinking about getting a 50's TV" say "I'm interested in acquiring a certain piece of fine furniture" and show them a picture of it, and if there is a complaint about it being a TV console take the opratunity to steer the conversation towards how much nicer it looks than your rooms current furnishings. And also if you want it bad enough, offer to make cretain objects in your room that your folks particularly dislike vanish on the condition that they allow you to acquire the object of your desire.

I'm not a bad influence on you, and this conversation never happened (lest your folks make that face at me for advising you:para:).

Good luck!

Oh, I hope NOBODY really actually BELIEVES that I "Hate" them when I say that...Sorta MY way of sayin' that I think you made a H3LLUVA great Score, & I'm maybe just a tad jealous...But GLAD at the same time that one of "Us" got the old TV/Radio, & it likely WON'T end up in a landfill or doin' Fishtank duty...(grin)

Definitely not... anybody who's been around here knows you... A friendly jest, if you will.

I'mma let it sit for a while and maybe make some of my other stuff "vanish"... then we'll try again...

[QUOTE=VintagePC;3018762]Definitely not... anybody who's been around here knows you... A friendly jest, if you will.



Yep...You figgered it out....I'm as fulla SHYTE as yr basic Christmas Goose...All I really want is that EVERY collector be as LUCKY & BLESSED as I've been..Maybe one day, I WILL score a working CT-100 for $150...You NEVER know what will turn up in some of these out-of-the-way Aunty-Kue shoppes....And I've been pretty good at "Spreadin' the Gospel" of old TVs & Radios around...