This is the first one I have seen on auction that works!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110132504476&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1

Hoo boy...That l'il salami will go for megabux...

I saw that this morning, and I put a $26 bid... This seller doesn't know what he/she has... They're in for a good surprise!

I can't bid near what it'll go for, but I am willing to go in the $200 range. I bet it goes for $400+, and probably to an overseas collector...

Charles

I didn't see any indication that it's currently working, just that they had used it once a long time ago and are assuming it works now?
A screenshot would be nice.

What is unusual/valuable about this TV? Are all 70's-90's small Sonys in high demand? I am curious, thanks.

Even though it works, it probably is going to fail soon. This TV has a very high failure rate. My dad had one, and it only worked for 1 year. His colleague also bought one, and it also worked only for 1 year. Both had no picture display after 1 year. I'm surprised that the one on eBay right now still works today. It's not worth putting your bid amount high, but it will not prevent me to bidding it.

It appears to be a near-flat crt face too-- Why arent these long lived? IS it the tube or some oddball parts that are NLA? I know that the SCRS in my KV1712 are nowhere to be found so I'm hoping they hang on...

What is unusual/valuable about this TV? Are all 70's-90's small Sonys in high demand? I am curious, thanks.

This isn't a "regular" CRT. It's an Indextron, which is a version of field-sequencial color like the CBS system. Probably someone else can elaborate on this with more technical accuracy than I can. Basically, rather than having three beams hitting three pixels as happens in a regular CRT, there is only one cathode and one beam. It scans first one color field, then the second, then the third, in sequence. I think the horizontal oscillator in that set runs at 4,270 cps, not 15,750. The only other index-field sequencial TV from Sony is the FP60/62 portable projector which was made in the early 80s.

The collector value comes because they're incedibly rare, and are possibly Sony's worst TV blunder. They all failed, and I think I read that they were all recalled by Sony.

There are no known working ones to exist, that I know of. If this one works, it won't for long.

There is a value to any of the early Sony mini-color sets, but this one is a different animal indeed.

Charles

Actually, the Indextron is closer in history to the Philco Apple color tube from the mid-50's. Almost identical, but shrunk to a 3.7" size.

It is a single-gun beam passing over then unheard of vertical color stripes with a secondary trailing "index" beam which hits a secondary set of green phosphor stripes on the backside of the screen. They are set at every third stripe.

This secondary set of stripes is reflected to a photocell which tells the scan where the primary beam actually is at any given time and then modulates the primary beam to produce the proper information at that time.

Steve has a page of original Apple information here which also has a link to Chuck A's original Philco documents on the development of the Apple;

http://www.earlytelevision.org/apple_crt.html

AK member Jerome Halphen has a thread on a French site "Forum Radiofil" which is translated here. It shows a working Indextron with his descriptions of the circuits. The translation is a bit rough, but readable.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://retro-forum.com/viewtopic.php%3Ft%3D11652&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=10&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dindextron%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26pwst%3 D1

I bought a dead Indextron a few weeks ago in ebay. When I got it, it was truely dead. A bit of Deoxit on a few connectors brought back a raster and for a few moments a picture with unsynchronized color. That went away and all I had was a shrunken white raster. Jerome was kind enough to email me the complete Sony service documents...in English! I gave it all to my local solid-state repair genius. He looked at me like I was nuts but took it anyway. Stay tuned.

Dave A

Thank you both for the notes and links. It is an interesting technology, especially the perfect convergence.

The one I saw had dozens of leaking caps. I suspect that this is the reason they were so unreliable. If so, recapping should be all that's needed to make a reliable indextron.

it does work,they sent me pics of it in operation,i tried to attach the pics to this posting,but they are too large,i have worked on the older fp-60's,but i have never seen one of the 4" ones at all

The thing I've never understood about the whole Indextron thing is WHY Sony bothered to fool w/it in the 1st place-They already HAD a world-beating CRT design-the Trinitron-why go to all the trouble to "re-invent the wheel" like that on something that, in retrospect, sounds like it was a VERY "iffy" technology at best ?

Bid is now up to $177. Who's willing to bid more?

The thing I've never understood about the whole Indextron thing is WHY Sony bothered to fool w/it in the 1st place-They already HAD a world-beating CRT design-the Trinitron-why go to all the trouble to "re-invent the wheel" like that on something that, in retrospect, sounds like it was a VERY "iffy" technology at best ?

I suspect they wanted something lighter, more durable, and smaller thean the Trinitron for a portable TV. Also, it would be immune to purity problems from being moved around. If not for LCDs, it may have become an important technology.

Okay. Back up. Don't get taken down with me if/when this :screwy: crazy idea crashes.

When Ford bough Philco, it sold the Apple patents to Sony. Somewhere along the way, someone way way up there in Sony had the TV engineering department cook up the Sony Apple, er, Indextron. Not to develop a profit center. Not by a long shot. He, someone like Ibuka maybe, did it for the same reason you or I would have. It's neat. But unlike us, he had the power to make it happen.

So I won this TV, and it wasn't cheap ($717.82). :tears: Who was the second highest bidder?

But, anyway, I'm looking for a techinican in southern California who is capable to fully-restore this Indextron. Who can do it? So far, kx250rider is the first person to contact, since he's the closest near me. Thanks.

WOW! $717.82. After you receive it you should probably look up the electrolytic caps and order mil-spec replacements to keep it working. Congratulations!
Richard.

Glad it went to somebody "In the Family"...<grin>

It's interesting, but the seller is not familiar with Indextron at all. This is the e-mail the seller sent me:

"Thank you so much for your bidding! We had no idea that this little tv would be so in demand. We will take great care in shipping this to you. I'll let you know once it's shipped! Thanks again!"

So I won this TV, and it wasn't cheap ($717.82). :tears: Who was the second highest bidder?

But, anyway, I'm looking for a techinican in southern California who is capable to fully-restore this Indextron. Who can do it? So far, kx250rider is the first person to contact, since he's the closest near me. Thanks.

I'm in the SF bay area, but I would be able to take care of it if you don't mind shipping it.

Change my mind in my previous post. I will be shipping this baby out anywhere in the US as long as you have no intention on stealing it. If you qualify yourself to be a great Indextron repairman, please PM me your estimate price (labor and parts) for all caps replacement, replacement of common failure parts, and restoration, and then I will decide. You don't want to miss this one-time opportunity restoring a working Indextron.

Update: I think andy may be the winner here to service my Indextron.

$717; HOLY MOSES with a cherry ontop and whipped cream!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Charles

$717; HOLY MOSES with a cherry ontop and whipped cream!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Charles
Yeah, you think I'm happy with that? :no: But at least it will never lose its value, since it's already the last working Indextron out there. :D

With that one already sold, predict when will the next Indextron show up on eBay? :D

According to my inside source(magic 8 ball) it says "situation cloudy, try again" My thoughts are that right now there are folks digging through attics and other storage areas for boxes that are marked, Work on Later.
Richard.

It'll be interesting to see when Walt gets how good it actually does work...I've bought "working" stuff offa You-Know-Where that "working" was, uhh, stretching the truth just a bit...We shall see what we shall see...

Hey Sandy, I have seen my share of "working" radios that do not receive actual radio stations but did have static. And as I have said before, when I had a working Indextron, late 1980s, early 90s the contrast and black level was no where close to a 1970s era 5 inch Trinitron. I had nothing else to reference it to so I hope mine was just a bad set and the one Walt purchased has a great picture.

I've never seen a picture on a direct-view Indextron, but I did have two of the FP series projectors that had a 12" Indextron tube. They looked pretty good.... for a single tube projection TV, that is. They have perfect convergence, but they look weird when you blink your eye. When you close your eyes, blink open for just a split second. You will see a monochrome or 2-color blended picture!

I shoulda kept the new-in-box Indextron like this eBay one that I sold to another AK'er about 2 years ago... I won't blab his name, but if he still has it, please post if it's been gotten working!

Charles

Congratulations on finding such a 'nifty' and rare collectible! :thmbsp:

I've seen several small-ish Trinitrons in the wholesale places here, along with other small TVs. I wouldn't even remember if any were Indextrons. :no: The mini-Trinitrons go for more than the others, but I'd bet money that an "indextron" would be so little-known to most dealers here that it wouldn't go for too much more ... certainly nowhere NEAR to $700+, anyway. Now I'll have to start paying more attention to those teensy TVs, in case one day one turns out to be an Indextron! :yes: :D

My Indextron arrived today. It's the same size of a Sony cube alarm clock. It's made in January 1989 and number 1,502 from production. It does work as stated (see attached photos). It is very clean inside the TV. My only concern is the geometry (pincushion issues), which is not so straight at the top and bottom, and there's a fish odor smell if I leave the TV on. Also, when powering on the TV, I notice that the picture shrinks a little with black bars at the right and left side and then loads completely with picture. I can also see the invisible vertical bars existing on the whole screen. Does it need repair, or is this normal?

Regarding the picture quality everybody is anxious about, the black levels are not very good but it makes the picture look more brighter and easier to see in black-scenes. Convergence is also perfect. The colors are a little muddy (unless it's defective), however. It looks like I'm seeing colors from a worn-out picture tube in a regular CRT. The whole picture, overall, looks like it's in warm temperature setting mode. Although Indextron is an interesting technology to learn about, I still think Trinitron produces a better picture than Indextron.

I'm not a TV repairman at all. I bought this because it's the cutest TV I have ever seen in my life and the Indextron technology it offered. It's my new (expensive) alarm clock for now. Good luck finding another Indextron on eBay, folks.

Wow, that just may be the only functional one left.:eek: All this talk reminds me of Matrecs.:lmao:

I've never seen a picture on a direct-view Indextron, but I did have two of the FP series projectors that had a 12" Indextron tube. They looked pretty good.... for a single tube projection TV, that is. They have perfect convergence, but they look weird when you blink your eye. When you close your eyes, blink open for just a split second. You will see a monochrome or 2-color blended picture!

Charles


Hey, I have a WORKING vidimagic projector. (At least, it DID work a few years ago--it is buried in the CLIMATE CONTROLLED basement, hopefully, the caps are still useable. ). The green "index glow" from the rear of the indextron crt is fun enough to watch, now I will have to try this "trick" out and see if I see "weird" things from the tube-IF it will still fire up.

On my little 1.5 inch camera color EVF from that RCA CCO30 camera- the CRT IS a BI type. BUT..it has the pickups IN FRONT of the screen!! If you cover ONE, the color turns to confetti and "screwed up" -if you cover BOTH--BW!!

My Indextron arrived today. It's the same size of a Sony cube alarm clock. It's made in January 1989 and number 1,502 from production. It does work as stated (see attached photos). It is very clean inside the TV. My only concern is the geometry (pincushion issues), which is not so straight at the top and bottom, and there's a fish odor smell if I leave the TV on. Also, when powering on the TV, I notice that the picture shrinks a little with black bars at the right and left side and then loads completely with picture. I can also see the invisible vertical bars existing on the whole screen. Does it need repair, or is this normal?

Regarding the picture quality everybody is anxious about, the black levels are not very good but it makes the picture look more brighter and easier to see in black-scenes. Convergence is also perfect. The colors are a little muddy (unless it's defective), however. It looks like I'm seeing colors from a worn-out picture tube in a regular CRT. The whole picture, overall, looks like it's in warm temperature setting mode. Although Indextron is an interesting technology to learn about, I still think Trinitron produces a better picture than Indextron.

I'm not a TV repairman at all. I bought this because it's the cutest TV I have ever seen in my life and the Indextron technology it offered. It's my new (expensive) alarm clock for now. Good luck finding another Indextron on eBay, folks.

I like Apple technology, but Apples can work better than Indextrons (i hope).
There are no many matters on Indextron in the web; only LITTLE Indextrons by Sony?:scratch2:

I have my vidimagic

The "fish" smell is a problem.

It is the electrolyte paste inside the capacitors leaking out and warming up. I'd suggest you get the set recapped before one of the failing capacitors fails and takes some unobtainable semiconductor with it.

I've experienced that smell when I'm un-soldering rotten capacitors from two way radios that experience the same capacitor failures as TVs.

I think this is another case of "old topic gets restarted by mistake".

If you read through it, you will see that the Ebay buyer did get the Sony TV repaired nicely. There was a separate topic for it as well.