What do you think abot today's tv sets? I think that with few exception, all are nothing but junk!

I think you are right. I am ultra picky about what electronic equipment I will own at any price and most of today's sets are lacking in style and quality. In the Sixties and Seventies TV advertising bragged about build quality and reliability. Today it is all about bells and whistles. If my wife did not have trouble using mechanical tuners and insisted on remote control, all the sets in my house would be at least thirty years old. Newer sets may require less maintenance but the vintage stuff is serviceable and built to last.

I voted they are all junk, assuming you were talking about specifically sets made in just the past few years. My experiences have been:
sets from the early 70's and earlier -- they are good:yes:
sets from late 70's - early 80's -- some are good some are bad :)
sets from the late 80's to early 90's -- with few exception all are junk :no:
late 90's and up -- all junk, never had one I liked :yuck:
I mostly just work on tube sets, I rarely pick up a solid state set anymore, but I've had lots of them.
The latest model TV I've really liked was the Zenith System 3, I've had 3 of these, all 25", 2 with space command, (1982,83,and 84) and they all worked great. I currently have the 83 with space command, I watched it this morning.
The newest TV I've had that I liked was a 91 RCA proscan 20" -- I still have it up at my parents house, and it has never given me any problems.
I've had several 90's and up Sonys I've found on the curb, none of them worked,I put them all back where I found them, now I don't even pick these up any more. My grandmother has one of these, after you turn it on you get nothing but snow for about 20 minutes until the TV "warms up".
I'm open to the idea that there are still a few good sets out there. Not that I would actually pay for a new set, but I see these on the curb, in dumpsters, at the thrift store, and other places, and if there was one worth picking up I would like to know about it.

I think we're past the peak of quality, and not just with quality of sets. Signal quality is a big issue. I'm considering dropping my DirecTV because of all the compression they use to cram all those channels on to their bandwidth (think Contadina). My ProScan shows me artifacts on Direc that never used to be on Dish, and now that I think about, not on cable, either.

Back to the TVs: Rarely will I see a set in a thrift store that's less than 10 years old. I can't say whether it's because the newer sets are being used or being tossed, but I'd be inclined to vote for the latter. Even Sony's sets seem cheap these days. And let's not get started on those Chinese "RCA" sets. I'll keep my '95 ProScan as long as it's fixable. Hell and a half of a set, especially compared to the newest sets.

I say that for American sets, there were two "great periods"... The late 40s (DuMont, RCA 630 series, and most others of that time except the electrostatics). The other great period for American sets would be the early 70s. In the 50s & 60s, it looked like price went ahead of quality in many sets (Muntz, Cheaper RCAs, Many Many cheapified cutdown versions of the RCA licensing lab chassis by dozens of mfrs), and again in the late 70s and 80s the same thing happened when RCA went to the unitized chassis and Zenith went to Mexico with the SystemIII.

For Japanese sets, clearly the 70s and up to about '82 was the best quality and workmanship. I include up to '82 for Sony's Profeel line.

ONE EXCEPTION to the "newer junk" rule is Toshibas from the 90s. They just seem to work and work and they are almost always super-easy to fix. However this comment EXCLUDES the Toshiba projection sets of the early 90s that had the leaky liquid CRT coolant that went onto the boards.

Now we are plagued with the Plasma; which is purely a fraud on the Public. The best plasma I have ever seen had a picture like an early Sears inline CRT with 3 brighteners stacked on it.......... And a VHS tape being played on a 2-head Kumho VCR through it. Again; that was the BEST plasma I have seen :thumbsdn:

Charles

<<<The best plasma I have ever seen had a picture like an early Sears inline CRT with 3 brighteners stacked on it.......... And a VHS tape being played on a 2-head Kumho VCR through it. >>>

That's the best thing I've read all week, I spewed iced tea all over my keyboard laughing when I read that.

I think Zenith should never have stopped using the hand-wired chassis. I once pulled one of these (an early 70's metal-cabinet B&W) out of a pile of broken dishwashers and other junk. I took it home, plugged it in, and it worked (not just sort-of, but like it was new). I still have it and 3 years later, I have not so much as had to change a tube in it. Not only do they just keep working, they are nice to work on. But I won't say anything against the System 3s because the ones I've had have all produced a good picture and never had any problems. I do think that the first two System 3s I had didn't make as nice of a picture as the Chromacolors I've had (and as my 1967 25" all-tube rectangular color Zenith might, if I ever get around to changing those leaky filter caps, and setting the convergence properly). But then the 83 Zenith I have now (which I don't think saw much use) comes really close to producing the best picture I have seen on any TV. It might just be that those in-line picture tubes didn't last as long under heavy use, rather than they didn't work as well to begin with. I will say that the Zeniths of the System 3 era had poor cabinet quality: too much particle board and plastic. But then everything has better cabinet quality than these plastic junkers they make now.
I don't really know much about the 91 RCA I mentioned above, I've never looked inside it or one like it. I just know it has never given me any trouble.
I've never had as bad an experience with TVs as all those 90s Sonys though. They all had that tuner trouble, you would be watching the TV and then all of a sudden it would be nothing but snow and static. I had 4 of them, :yuck: :thumbsdn: :yuck: :thumbsdn:, they all did this.

I think there were still some very good sets made well into the 80's and 90's. Late 80's Sonys were still pretty good for the most part. There are even some current sets that don't look too bad. You have to go top of the line to get anything decent and even that's no guarantee, but good sets are still out there.

The thing I have no tolerance for is rebranding a crappy TV with an expensive brand. It's like selling cut glass as diamonds and should be illegal without making the true manufacturer known.

Most, if not all, Toshiba TVs are made by Orion (the company behind Emerson and Broksonic). I used to like Toshiba.

Sony's TV/VCR combos from the 90's were made by GoldStar (before LG made anything decent).

Sony sold a number of PC monitors in the 90's that were made by another company and were much worse quality than real Sonys.

Sony also used Funai VCR mechanisms for a while in the 90's (Funai is behind such stellar brands as Symphonic and those Magnavox TV/VCRs).

Hitachi was selling rebranded Zenith TVs for a while in the late 90's (after Zenith became a junk brand).

Philips/Magnavox sell a lot of Funai junk for VCRs and TV/VCRs.

If I bought a new TV today I'd have the back off as soon as I got it home just to make sure I got what I paid for!

I bought a Zenith 27" console in 1997 which has needed service only once (thankfully very minor since due to a lightning strike) and still has a picture as nice and bright as when new on the supposedly doomed-to-early-failure CRT. It's on every day and almost always has been. I guess I'm lucky, but from my experience I wouldn't have a clue about that era's Zenith's junky reputation were it not for this forum. Some of 'em must've gotten built right somehow.

I think the really bad Zenith CRT's were mostly around 1993 or so...1997 is probably past the bad CRT years.

The really bad ones were from 1993 and 1994, but the later ones were only a little better. All the 1993 and newer Zenith CRTs I've seen looked like crap, even as late as 2000. You might have found a rare good one, or it might have been a CRT Zenith bought from another company. It wouldn't surprise me if they sourced CRTs from other manufacturers at times while they were having trouble with the Zenith plant.

<<<


I don't really know much about the 91 RCA I mentioned above, I've never looked inside it or one like it. I just know it has never given me any trouble.
I've never had as bad an experience with TVs as all those 90s Sonys though. They all had that tuner trouble, you would be watching the TV and then all of a sudden it would be nothing but snow and static. I had 4 of them, :yuck: :thumbsdn: :yuck: :thumbsdn:, they all did this.

Those Sonys had a common problem with that but it was an easy fix.Take the tuner of the board and carefully resolder the ground tabs where the shield soldered to the pc board.If they were early 90's they were fairly good sets except for the tuner grounds.They had 2 other problems.Bad connections on the coils in the IF pack and leaky caps on the MTS board which is dirt cheap and commonly available.The CRT and flyback in those sets seem to be much better than the mid 90's and up Sonys.A lot are still going with great pictures.The later ones are more junky.Especially the 32" ones.The worse thing is when 1 gun goes weak they start blanking out the picture.We actually fixed one of the 36" XBR Wegas from 2000 because it was under service contract.The green gun had gotten weak and this particular model shuts down when it can't balance the 3 guns.Sony had a real big problem with the CRTS in certain projection tvs from 2002 and 2003.They're still extending the warranty to 4 years to change all 3 CRTs and some resistors.One of them the filament resistor.They get intermittent shorts causing flicker or 1 gun showing retrace lines or actually going full on causing the set to shut down.A lot of them you can see sparks fly when you tap the neck of the tube.


As for System 3 Zeniths I have an '85 Advanced System 3 that still has a beautiful picture.My uncle has a mid 90's Toshiba projection still going strong.Needed the convergence chips changed about a year ago.Mistsubishi sets in the 80's seemed to be made well.My mom has an '87 projection set still going strong and I saw an '81 model(the one with the flip down mirror and curves screen)still going.They went down the crapper in the 90's.I've worked on a lot of them.The sets still seem to be built well otherwise but they used bad electrolytic capacitors.They leak.By the time the set starts giving problems there are usually 30 or more electrolytic capacitors leaking and must be replaced.My record was 80 capacitors.Also the contamination must be removed from the board and a lot of times eaten traces must be jumpered and other damaged parts sometimes.And the projectors leak coolant fluid on the circuit boards.It's a shame because they give excellent pictures and the CRTs last and last.Mysteriously they still use the same capacitor vendor though I haven't seen the later ones leaking.Did have one with about 20 or more with high esr causing interfence lines in the picture.Hitachi seems to be a well made projection tv.Only the convergence chips fail on most and they keep running.
DLP tvs and Plasmas are a headache.If a driver chip fails on the panel in a Plasma it's not replaceable .The panel has to be replaced.In some cases it's a line or a few lines of different colors running down the screen.If one really shorts out it won't play at all.Dlps have expensive lamps often costing $200 or more that rarely last over a year.And the bearings go bad on the exoensive color wheel too.BTW talk about energy hogs Plasmas use more electricity than an all tube color tv.I've seen 450 watts on the back of one.

DLPs just plain suck. We have a couple at work. I've heard stories about the wheel actually shattering in a couple we've had to get fixed. One is still out, and the other 2 don't impress me much (they're NECs, if you're wondering). Better than some I've seen but I still see the rainbow stripes some people talk about if I glance at it the right way. LCDs are NOT for analog or SDTV. Plasmas are close, but I'd still go tube for best picture.

The really bad ones were from 1993 and 1994, but the later ones were only a little better. All the 1993 and newer Zenith CRTs I've seen looked like crap, even as late as 2000. You might have found a rare good one, or it might have been a CRT Zenith bought from another company. It wouldn't surprise me if they sourced CRTs from other manufacturers at times while they were having trouble with the Zenith plant.

Andy do you have any experience about 1991 zenith CRT's? I got a 1991 console that looks just like the infamous bad crt 1993-94 units and I thought maybe it had a chance at being good...however crt was very weak. When was the real start of the bad crt problem?

Those Sonys had a common problem with that but it was an easy fix.Take the tuner of the board and carefully resolder the ground tabs where the shield soldered to the pc board.If they were early 90's they were fairly good sets except for the tuner grounds.They had 2 other problems.Bad connections on the coils in the IF pack and leaky caps on the MTS board which is dirt cheap and commonly available.

Thanks for the information on these sets. Next time I see one (which will probably also have this problem) I might just pick it up and try this out.

I've heard from others, and my observations agree, that the problems started in something like Oct 1992. Sure, I've seen plenty of earlier Zeniths with bad CRTs (along with lots of Sonys, Panasonics, Toshibas...), but most seem to be ok. On the other hand, I've never seen a good 93-94 CRT. Well, I had one good one on a set that had almost no use. Even that one looked a little blue in the highlights.

The bad ones had two problems. They would lose emission in one or more guns very early and they would short and take out the power supply. You could fix the power supply and it might even have an acceptable picture, but they would always short again. These were the first sets I stopped bothering with back when a 4 year old 27" TV was worth good money.

New sets may have great pix and potentially longer lives, but on the flipside they have all the personality of a box of rocks and are disposable. No emotion. No attachment. No character!
Tom

Exactly - No character, No commitment, just throw-aways what a shame no one cares anymore

One of the things that I hate at modern sets it that they have plastic cabinet, in stad of wooden cabinet :yuck: :no: I dind't sow any modern set (not even a luxury one) to have wooden cabinet. :thumbsdn: :tears:
And I think I know why: an woden cabinet provides better sound and an higher volume-the plastic cabinet not-those jerks from the corporations want U to buy some amplifiers and loudspeakers fromt they too (they say those sistem provides better sound); P.S. anyone knows from where I can rent an firing squad? :uzi:

Nothing is worse than those plastic that looks like wood monstrosities that became popular in the 70's! TASTEFUL real wood is nice, but when it looks like a coffin it should be burried.

One of the things that I hate at modern sets it that they have plastic cabinet, in stad of wooden cabinet :yuck: :no: I dind't sow any modern set (not even a luxury one) to have wooden cabinet. :thumbsdn: :tears:
And I think I know why: an woden cabinet provides better sound and an higher volume-the plastic cabinet not-those jerks from the corporations want U to buy some amplifiers and loudspeakers fromt they too (they say those sistem provides better sound); P.S. anyone knows from where I can rent an firing squad? :uzi:

I think this 13" Sony on my desk might be the very last wood (particleboard) small TV... KV-1371RSX
. I didnt' pull it out to look at the date, but it's at least late 80s or newer because it has full 181 CATV channels. In the 80s, Sonys only went to Ch 36 on cable. I picked it up because you just don't see 13" wood sets!

Charles

My nickname haves wooden cabinet-the front cover is plastic made-too look like wodd. My 2000 "Sony" have plastic cabinet :yuck: