View Full Version : Admiral Regent/C322C2 Score!


SwizzyMan
08-02-2017, 11:07 PM
Snagged this guy for $500 up in Ocala. 21AX tests good at first look, but I still need to let it cook for awhile. Cabinet is in remarkable shape too. It's missing most of its tubes and is covered with a thick layer of dust. Checked the flyback and there definitely is some wax drip, but I dont think that is a cause for concern. Uses the 29Z1 run 18 chassis. I probably wont really be able to get to this one till I finish the 4. I dont dare power it up until I replace the filters. I'll get the camera out and take better pictures here soon. Make that 9 surviving examples!

SwizzyMan
08-03-2017, 02:07 PM
Started to remove the layers of dust in the CRT areas. Set is confirmed to be from from 56' due to matching tube dates on the hv tubes and the crt. Chassis seems about 95% original. Flyback primaries ohm out good.

SwizzyMan
08-03-2017, 02:18 PM
More photos

zeno
08-03-2017, 03:10 PM
Fantastic find ! You da man:thmbsp:
After the filter cans take it slow. Get a raster up THEN slowly recap
starting with problem areas. Sry you know the drill......

73 Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !

Findm-Keepm
08-03-2017, 03:23 PM
Very nice. And if you save those bumble bee pulls and sell them on eBay, you might just pay for the set......:D

http://www.ebay.com/itm/585-Sprague-Bumble-Bee-Black-Capacitor-Pulls-0047-0068-0033-0039-/401324622251?hash=item5d70cfc1ab%3Ag%3ApWAAAOSw-K9ZEqFt&nma=true&si=W2l0YmeVzBeFZO9mvVlr8XemqpY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

:screwy: Those audiophiles....

SwizzyMan
08-03-2017, 06:33 PM
Continued to clean the set up. Let's do the safety glass next. I am pleased with how it came out. There is so much dust built up in this set!

Radiotronman
08-03-2017, 07:53 PM
Awesome rare set. It almost looks like it's a console, missing the legs. Can't wait to see the restoration in this set! I'm still trying to finish my RCA Westcott like yours.

SwizzyMan
08-03-2017, 08:47 PM
Awesome rare set. It almost looks like it's a console, missing the legs. Can't wait to see the restoration in this set! I'm still trying to finish my RCA Westcott like yours.

It is indeed a consolette. It was missing its legs so I bought a set of highboy legs for it. I will probably have to stain the legs though as they are not quite the right shade of mahogany.

kvflyer
08-04-2017, 06:13 AM
Very cool indeed. 61 year old set, who wudda thunk they would still be around and of interest to anyone?

Nice...

BigDavesTV
08-04-2017, 09:30 AM
Yes! Great score, looking forward to many more progress pictures on this restoration, very nice start, chassis looks un-molested, isn't rusty, CRT usable, large "plus-es!"

SwizzyMan
08-04-2017, 11:33 AM
Now to remove those proverbial, pesky white latex paint specks! Turned out pretty good I think. Some tiny specks just wouldn't come off though!

etype2
08-04-2017, 12:18 PM
Congratulations on acquiring this rare guy.

SwizzyMan
08-04-2017, 01:20 PM
Thanks everyone! I went ahead and did some more work on the cabinet. Next I added restor a finish to the top and left side of the cabinet. The results are really nice.

SwizzyMan
08-04-2017, 06:58 PM
I cant seem to find the getters on the 21ax. I know they are normally located in a slot on the neck near the end of the gun assembly, but I cant seem to find it. I do see what looks like silver getter material in the base though near the heaters of the guns. Were the getters ever placed inside the base of the tube rather than on the end of the gun? :scratch2:

mrjukebox160
08-04-2017, 07:20 PM
It does indeed look like getter flash in the base of the tube.

old_tv_nut
08-04-2017, 07:31 PM
It does indeed look like getter flash in the base of the tube.

That seems like a very strange location. My rebuilt GE tube has nothing like that, but of course rebuilt means it could have been flashed completely differently from the original.

SwizzyMan
08-04-2017, 07:43 PM
That seems like a very strange location. My rebuilt GE tube has nothing like that, but of course rebuilt means it could have been flashed completely differently from the original.

I have seen it in only one other 21ax and that was the one in Ben Moyer's colorcaster.

jr_tech
08-04-2017, 11:56 PM
It does indeed look like getter flash in the base of the tube.

It may be just evaporated metal from the 3 heaters... IIRC the getters are in the neck, closer to the screen.

Found a pix... there are 6 stirrup getters arranged in a circle toward the screen from the convergence pole pieces. There are no getters near the base.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4338/36334221516_1c8b788285_z_d.jpg

Sorry about the poor contrast.

Update: found an article with a better pix of the gun assembly.

http://www.earlytelevision.org/pdf/Recent-Improvements-in-the-21AXP22-Color-Kinescope.pdf

jr

SwizzyMan
08-05-2017, 11:36 AM
Ok here are the official tests on the CRT. The tube tests NOS! This has to be one of the best testing CRTs I've ever seen!

Jeffhs
08-05-2017, 02:16 PM
Ok here are the official tests on the CRT. The tube tests NOS! This has to be one of the best testing CRTs I've ever seen!

That TV either was not used much by its former owner(s), or else the CRT you tested is a replacement for the original tube. I cannot believe a 50-60 year-old CRT can be in such good condition. The set may have been used by a little old lady who only watched it, at most, once a week or less, and had the original tube replaced in the '60s-'70s.

Zenith6S321
08-05-2017, 08:28 PM
I cant seem to find the getters on the 21ax. I know they are normally located in a slot on the neck near the end of the gun assembly, but I cant seem to find it. I do see what looks like silver getter material in the base though near the heaters of the guns. Were the getters ever placed inside the base of the tube rather than on the end of the gun? :scratch2:

The 21AXP22A in my 21CT55 looks the same. There is a picture of it in post #81 of the thread:
http://videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=257587&page=6

Mine has a date code of 5704, about 8 weeks after your date code. It also tested good and makes a nice picture. My avatar is a picture from that set. I say don't worry about the CRT until you get the set operating well enough to get a raster. Nice save!

Dave

old_coot88
08-05-2017, 09:21 PM
...I do see what looks like silver getter material in the base though near the heaters of the guns.
A couple of questions - When you had the tester on it and got those unusually 'good' high readings, were the heaters glowing a nice healthy orange?

If not, was the neck around the gun area getting really, really hot really fast?

SwizzyMan
08-05-2017, 09:31 PM
A couple of questions - When you had the tester on it and got those unusually 'good' high readings, were the heaters glowing a nice healthy orange?

If not, was the neck around the gun area getting really, really hot really fast?

Seemed like the typical orange glow. Got really hot after about 10 mins. Hope it's not gassy?

old_coot88
08-05-2017, 10:06 PM
Seemed like the typical orange glow.
That's good. It's under vacuum. (If a jug has gone to air, the heaters won't glow, but the neck gets sizzling hot in half a minute due to conduction.)

Got really hot after about 10 mins.
That would be normal.

SwizzyMan
08-05-2017, 10:13 PM
That's good. It's under vacuum. (If a jug has gone to air, the heaters won't glow, but the neck gets sizzling hot in half a minute due to conduction.)


That would be normal.

Awesome! It should display a beautiful picture then.

SwizzyMan
08-06-2017, 03:12 PM
I do intend to document almost everything I do while I restore this set both cosmetically and electrically. I am doing this to use it a reference and as a step by step series of the restoration of this set due to how rare it is. Next I decided to get the latex paint specks off of the tuning knob. It was a lot harder to remove the paint on the knob than it was on the cabinet due to the risk of harming the fragile plastic. I soaked the affected areas in olive oil to loosen up the paint and then used a pencil eraser to remove as much as I could. As you can see, I wasn't able to get all of it off, but it looks a whole lot better than it did. :thmbsp:

walterbeers
08-06-2017, 04:02 PM
Very nice. And if you save those bumble bee pulls and sell them on eBay, you might just pay for the set......:D

http://www.ebay.com/itm/585-Sprague-Bumble-Bee-Black-Capacitor-Pulls-0047-0068-0033-0039-/401324622251?hash=item5d70cfc1ab%3Ag%3ApWAAAOSw-K9ZEqFt&nma=true&si=W2l0YmeVzBeFZO9mvVlr8XemqpY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

:screwy: Those audiophiles....

Gee $50-$100 for bumble bee and wax caps? Most always they are bad, leaky, or way off value. When I get a TV or radio with those in it I replace them with modern types. Gosh I have thrown tons of those away. I should have saved them and became rich!

miniman82
08-06-2017, 04:30 PM
You need to variac the chassis real quick to verify the crt has not gone to air, getting super high readings like that makes me question whether it has gas in it. In my experience an AX that has top of the scale readings on all guns is usually gassy, even the tube in MY COLORCASTER (I bought Ben's set) tests like new, but it doesn't tip the scales all the way on all guns like that one does.

If it is indeed good, you have a winner there. But until you've had HV and a picture on it, all bets are off. Remember: a gassy tube that hasn't yet burned out its heaters will show good readings on test, but still glow purple upon HV application. Hence the only quantitive test is to run it on a chassis, if you get something on the screen it's good.

SwizzyMan
08-06-2017, 05:24 PM
You need to variac the chassis real quick to verify the crt has not gone to air, getting super high readings like that makes me question whether it has gas in it. In my experience an AX that has top of the scale readings on all guns is usually gassy, even the tube in MY COLORCASTER (I bought Ben's set) tests like new, but it doesn't tip the scales all the way on all guns like that one does.

If it is indeed good, you have a winner there. But until you've had HV and a picture on it, all bets are off. Remember: a gassy tube that hasn't yet burned out its heaters will show good readings on test, but still glow purple upon HV application. Hence the only quantitive test is to run it on a chassis, if you get something on the screen it's good.

I would like to add,

When I first tested the CRT, it did not test this good at all. All guns tested maybe right above the G on the good scale. It didnt test this good until I let it cook for about 10 minutes at 6.3.

SwizzyMan
08-06-2017, 07:54 PM
So I put it on the variac and after maybe an hour and a half I was up to 100 volts and the 6CB5 started to red plate in the middle of the plate (No HV either). The set is missing most of its tubes, but I did have in the HV cage tubes, the damper, the H out tube, and the vertical out tube. I forgot to add the horizontal multiplier tube so that may account for the red plating 6CB5 and lack of HV. Current draw was about 2.5 amps and normal current is 3 amps at 117v. I must say I am very weary of applying full line voltage to the set with all the original filters, but I need to see if the Jug is gassy (Which I dont think it is.)by applying some HV to it. Everything else seemed to be normal, no burning smells and the power transformer only got lukewarm after being on for an hour and a half.

miniman82
08-06-2017, 08:15 PM
You can also power it with HV from another chassis, but it would be best to get the native horizontal circuit functioning.

SwizzyMan
08-06-2017, 08:29 PM
Aha! Cant believe I forgot the horizontal mult tube! We now have a nice and relatively bright raster with great height and width! This set sure is a winner!

miniman82
08-06-2017, 09:10 PM
There you have it, don't you feel better knowing you won't have to search for a CRT?

SwizzyMan
08-06-2017, 09:13 PM
There you have it, don't you feel better knowing you won't have to search for a CRT?

A lot better. I would have probably paid close to double what I paid for the set if I needed a new CRT.

SwizzyMan
08-07-2017, 11:39 AM
We are now a consolette!

Phil Nelson
08-07-2017, 03:25 PM
Wow, what a great score, and the early signs are encouraging.

To quote Bertie Wooster, "I shall watch your future progress with considerable interest!"

Regards,

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

SwizzyMan
08-07-2017, 05:55 PM
Thanks Phil. Here's another bit of progress. I went ahead and repainted the channel numbers on the channel knob with a gold pen. It was painstakingly difficult, but I think it turned out nice.

consoleguy67
08-07-2017, 07:04 PM
Very nice work on that channel knob!

Electronic M
08-08-2017, 01:17 AM
Amazing purchase!

I'm Jelly.....Matter of fact "I'm the slime" <--Frank Zappa (it is a funny song) :D

Once I'm back on my feet with finances I'll have to make you an offer on it.

DavGoodlin
08-08-2017, 12:57 PM
Awesome detail work. It encourages me as I typically get them working and move on to another TV. Seeing the Sams Schematic for this TV in my file 35+ years ago, I was sure Id never hear of a survivor and here it is.

SwizzyMan
08-08-2017, 07:34 PM
Thanks everyone. I spent most of my day today staining and refinishing the legs I bought for the set. I needed to darken their color to better match the color of the set. It isn't perfect, but I am by no means a professional woodworker. I had to use gold spray paint to shine up the brass inserts on the legs since the original plating was so thin it came off when I applied brasso to shine it up. The photos don't exactly indicate a big change in the color in the wood, but in person there is a definite difference.

BigDavesTV
08-09-2017, 12:56 PM
So glad to see a raster on that set!:) Looks good with legs and freshly painted channel numbers too!

Robert Grant
08-09-2017, 02:50 PM
Gee $50-$100 for bumble bee and wax caps? Most always they are bad, leaky, or way off value. When I get a TV or radio with those in it I replace them with modern types. Gosh I have thrown tons of those away. I should have saved them and became rich!


I had been watching a TV show a few years back, about people who use vintage electric guitar amplifiers.
They showed someone wanting to sell some amplifiers, and the buyers were interested, but demanded they be allowed to open the amplifiers to check the electronics inside.
When they opened them up, metal can (w/plastic cover) lytics were revealed. The prospective buyers refused to buy the amplifiers at any price, protesting that only paper lytics gave "The sound"!

Don't they know they can get "The sound" back by running a line from the power cord, through a resistor, to the grids of the input tubes?

Anyone who invested their money into a McIntosh, Scott or Fender amplifier "back in the day" certainly didn't want "The sound" A 60Hz buzz. There's a sucker born every minute!

Electronic M
08-09-2017, 04:27 PM
There are 2 schools of tube amp design that depend on the customer: HiFi source listener, or musician.

The HiFi listener wants the minimum distortion achievable when playing back their LPs, etc.

The musician wants lots of distortion, but very specific types, tuned so that the amp becomes an extension of the instrument they intend to play through it.

Ever wonder why most electric guitar (especially in rock music) sounds nothing like acoustic?....The amp's distortion is the answer. Many electric guitars sound like an acoustic if not passed through an amp that imparts the correct distortion.

The pre-amp stages of many guitar amps are purposely designed to go into clipping at higher settings of their sub volume control...That clipping adds desirable characteristics to the sound...The output stage clipping also has some bearing on the sound (those amps outputs are often also intentionally driven to clipping), and the stiffness of the power supply regulation/filtering will affect that. In some pre-amp stages having leaky paper caps is key to achieving the distortion wanted: the caps will act like diodes above a certain voltage threshold and change the wave shape of the signal passed.

Most musicians are, when it comes to electronics, completely non-technical people (and some of their tastes are based more on experience/superstition than science), but if you take an amp that has "the sound" they want and analyze how it changes the waveform of the signal it is passing and how the bad caps in it affect that, then it is possible to build modern amps with "the sound" and reliable parts....I know someone who does that type of work.

Sorry to go OT.

SwizzyMan
08-10-2017, 03:35 PM
Well since pretty much all of the cosmetic work on this set is done, I can finally move it into my room. It will sit next to the Pensbury for now. Its pretty crammed in here now :D. It will eventually take the place of the CTC-5 which will be moving up north to Minnesota here soon. Now it awaits its electrical restoration once the 4 is done (which should be very soon).

etype2
08-10-2017, 07:29 PM
It looks showroom new in the photo. Great work! Now on to the good stuff .... :-)

Steve D.
08-11-2017, 01:35 PM
Well since pretty much all of the cosmetic work on this set is done, I can finally move it into my room. It will sit next to the Pensbury for now. Its pretty crammed in here now :D. It will eventually take the place of the CTC-5 which will be moving up north to Minnesota here soon. Now it awaits its electrical restoration once the 4 is done (which should be very soon).

Beautiful cosmetic condition for this rare color set. Like most of the mid 50's entry level color sets it was pretty much a box with a screen. Admiral, like other manufactures, did have several sets that model year that were fine furniture. This Admiral Patrician model, I don't believe, has ever surfaced among collectors .

-Steve D.

SpaceAge
08-11-2017, 05:11 PM
Beautiful cosmetic condition for this rare color set. Like most of the mid 50's entry level color sets it was pretty much a box with a screen. Admiral, like other manufactures, did have several sets that model year that were fine furniture. This Admiral Patrician model, I don't believe, has ever surfaced among collectors .

-Steve D.

Is that thing one piece, or is the table it's sitting on seperate? Just wondering. :)

Edit: If none have ever surfaced, I suppose you don't know... :scratch2:

SwizzyMan
08-11-2017, 05:28 PM
I believe the table was separate. If you look closely you can see black objects on the bottom where the set meets the table which almost look like feet. The Patrician was the credenza version of the C322 series I believe.

Steve D.
08-11-2017, 05:36 PM
I believe the table was separate. If you look closely you can see black objects on the bottom where the set meets the table which almost look like feet. The Patrician was the credenza version of the C322 series I believe.

Actually I'm not sure if the set was on small feet sitting on the bottom platform or is attached to the platform as one piece. All the Admiral models had a C322 # followed by additional #'s to indicate cabinet style and finish ect.

-Steve D.

SwizzyMan
08-11-2017, 05:39 PM
Actually I'm not sure if the set was on small feet sitting on the bottom platform or is attached to the platform as one piece.

-Steve D.

I guess we wont know till one surfaces! :scratch2:

Steve K
08-11-2017, 07:27 PM
It was one piece. I had one years ago. Mine was blonde with a black base.

Steve D.
08-11-2017, 07:41 PM
It was one piece. I had one years ago. Mine was blonde with a black base.

Thanks Steve.

-Steve D.

SwizzyMan
08-30-2017, 06:55 PM
Does anyone here have a schematic for run 18 of the 29Z1 chassis? Sams only covers up through run 17.

tom.j.fla
08-30-2017, 07:51 PM
If you do not have the factory manuals, you need Admiral service manuals S592 and S592a. They are at The ETF listed with the SAMS. All the best,Tom.J

SwizzyMan
08-30-2017, 08:13 PM
If you do not have the factory manuals, you need Admiral service manuals S592 and S592a. They are at The ETF listed with the SAMS. All the best,Tom.J

Unfortunately, the ETF manual (S592) doesnt have a schematic for the run 18 chassis. Im guessing that S592a might have it, but the ETF does not have that manual on hand.

tom.j.fla
08-30-2017, 09:29 PM
Well SwizzyMan here is the link, www.earlytelevision.org/pdf/Admiral_Service_Manual_S592a.pdf I downloaded it at 9:20p.m. Its' a long URL so not all of it shows in the link. Tom.J

Steve D.
08-30-2017, 10:08 PM
Well SwizzyMan here is the link, www.earlytelevision.org/pdf/Admiral_Service_Manual_S592a.pdf I downloaded it at 9:20p.m. Its' a long URL so not all of it shows in the link. Tom.J

Swizzyman,

I also found the S592A service manual in my stash. But probably just as ez for you to download it from the ETF site.

-Steve D.

SwizzyMan
08-30-2017, 10:11 PM
Well SwizzyMan here is the link, www.earlytelevision.org/pdf/Admiral_Service_Manual_S592a.pdf I downloaded it at 9:20p.m. Its' a long URL so not all of it shows in the link. Tom.J

Oh...duh! Can't believe I missed that! Thanks Tom

SwizzyMan
09-22-2017, 10:41 PM
I am taking a break from the 4 for awhile. I'm now turning most of my attention to servicing a horizontal issue on the 5. But I am still doing some minor things with the Regent. Does anyone know how I could possibly replicate the metal insert on the channel knob? The volume knob lost its insert long ago. Any Ideas?

Electronic M
09-23-2017, 12:02 PM
IIRC I found a couple of those knobs a few months back. A transplant or replacement knob may be possible if the ones I'm thinking of are the same.

SwizzyMan
09-23-2017, 12:20 PM
IIRC I found a couple of those knobs a few months back. A transplant or replacement knob may be possible if the ones I'm thinking of are the same.

That would work perfectly if you have some. Let me know and I'll buy em!

SwizzyMan
10-04-2017, 02:41 PM
Still looking for knobs or ideas to fabricate a new knob insert. Were you able to search for those knobs Tom?

DavGoodlin
10-04-2017, 04:05 PM
Those inserts look like they could be made on a lathe from sheet aluminum. Shaping them using hardwood over a wooden dowel shaped on the end like the mating surface of the plastic knob.

The real trick would be to keep the center smooth as it needs the lathe's "dead center" to keep it in place while shaping.

Never tried it but just an idea from my experience in a shop. I have an HH Scott stereo receiver missing several similar aluminum "caps" from its knobs. The glue was not worth crap in the old days.

Electronic M
10-04-2017, 04:19 PM
Still looking for knobs or ideas to fabricate a new knob insert. Were you able to search for those knobs Tom?

Crap...I knew I was forgetting something.:stupid::withstpd: I'll check when I get home tonight.

Electronic M
10-04-2017, 09:14 PM
I found them, and they may work.

I'm trying to find a way to upload the pictures. My main PC melted down back on saturday so I need to figure out my flickr password or wait till the spare parts for my machine show up....

SwizzyMan
10-04-2017, 09:27 PM
I found them, and they may work.

I'm trying to find a way to upload the pictures. My main PC melted down back on saturday so I need to figure out my flickr password or wait till the spare parts for my machine show up....

No worries, just let me know when you can get them up. Just PM me or post it here.

Electronic M
10-07-2017, 10:29 PM
Now that my main PC is working again... Here are the pictures.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4505/36851018864_a799f7e2b5_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Y9p73d) https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4465/37302747320_b606eb2d7e_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/YQjkaS) https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4483/37302753440_01affd9dee_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/YQjmZo)

They are different in that there is more metal covering the plastic, but the plastic and the center of the metal caps appear the same. There are two avenues I see for using these: Cut the center out of the channel knob metal, or use the center of the knob you have to complete the knob I have that is missing it's center and have a set of knobs with more metal on them on the set.

I'll let you have one or both of the knobs for $5+whatever shipping costs.
My PM box is near capacity so use my Email, or PM me for my email address and we can work out the details.

SwizzyMan
10-13-2017, 05:32 PM
Sorry for the late reply, just saw this. The only thing I could really do is to cut out the centerpiece on the metal part of the knob. Question is, how would I do that cleanly?

Steve D.
10-13-2017, 06:12 PM
Suggest someone skilled with a fine blade band saw.

-Steve D.

SwizzyMan
10-15-2017, 11:15 PM
Suggest someone skilled with a fine blade band saw.

-Steve D.

Wish I knew of any. There's got to be a way to fabricate something to replace it. If worst comes to worst, I'll buy Tom's knobs.

Steve D.
10-16-2017, 12:33 AM
Any woodworking shop or metal fabricating shop will have a band saw. Also consider 3-D printing of the knob. You may have to do a little legwork to achieve your ends.

-Steve D.

snelson903
10-16-2017, 03:00 AM
wow awesome find,and a crt that stood the test of time , hopefully there are still more great finds still hiding out there just waiting to be found ..