Snagged this guy for $500 up in Ocala. 21AX tests good at first look, but I still need to let it cook for awhile. Cabinet is in remarkable shape too. It's missing most of its tubes and is covered with a thick layer of dust. Checked the flyback and there definitely is some wax drip, but I dont think that is a cause for concern. Uses the 29Z1 run 18 chassis. I probably wont really be able to get to this one till I finish the 4. I dont dare power it up until I replace the filters. I'll get the camera out and take better pictures here soon. Make that 9 surviving examples!

Started to remove the layers of dust in the CRT areas. Set is confirmed to be from from 56' due to matching tube dates on the hv tubes and the crt. Chassis seems about 95% original. Flyback primaries ohm out good.

More photos

Fantastic find ! You da man:thmbsp:
After the filter cans take it slow. Get a raster up THEN slowly recap
starting with problem areas. Sry you know the drill......

73 Zeno:smoke:
LFOD !

Very nice. And if you save those bumble bee pulls and sell them on eBay, you might just pay for the set......:D

http://www.ebay.com/itm/585-Sprague-Bumble-Bee-Black-Capacitor-Pulls-0047-0068-0033-0039-/401324622251?hash=item5d70cfc1ab%3Ag%3ApWAAAOSw-K9ZEqFt&nma=true&si=W2l0YmeVzBeFZO9mvVlr8XemqpY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

:screwy: Those audiophiles....

Continued to clean the set up. Let's do the safety glass next. I am pleased with how it came out. There is so much dust built up in this set!

Awesome rare set. It almost looks like it's a console, missing the legs. Can't wait to see the restoration in this set! I'm still trying to finish my RCA Westcott like yours.

Awesome rare set. It almost looks like it's a console, missing the legs. Can't wait to see the restoration in this set! I'm still trying to finish my RCA Westcott like yours.

It is indeed a consolette. It was missing its legs so I bought a set of highboy legs for it. I will probably have to stain the legs though as they are not quite the right shade of mahogany.

Very cool indeed. 61 year old set, who wudda thunk they would still be around and of interest to anyone?

Nice...

Yes! Great score, looking forward to many more progress pictures on this restoration, very nice start, chassis looks un-molested, isn't rusty, CRT usable, large "plus-es!"

Now to remove those proverbial, pesky white latex paint specks! Turned out pretty good I think. Some tiny specks just wouldn't come off though!

Congratulations on acquiring this rare guy.

Thanks everyone! I went ahead and did some more work on the cabinet. Next I added restor a finish to the top and left side of the cabinet. The results are really nice.

I cant seem to find the getters on the 21ax. I know they are normally located in a slot on the neck near the end of the gun assembly, but I cant seem to find it. I do see what looks like silver getter material in the base though near the heaters of the guns. Were the getters ever placed inside the base of the tube rather than on the end of the gun? :scratch2:

It does indeed look like getter flash in the base of the tube.

It does indeed look like getter flash in the base of the tube.

That seems like a very strange location. My rebuilt GE tube has nothing like that, but of course rebuilt means it could have been flashed completely differently from the original.

That seems like a very strange location. My rebuilt GE tube has nothing like that, but of course rebuilt means it could have been flashed completely differently from the original.

I have seen it in only one other 21ax and that was the one in Ben Moyer's colorcaster.

It does indeed look like getter flash in the base of the tube.

It may be just evaporated metal from the 3 heaters... IIRC the getters are in the neck, closer to the screen.

Found a pix... there are 6 stirrup getters arranged in a circle toward the screen from the convergence pole pieces. There are no getters near the base.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4338/36334221516_1c8b788285_z_d.jpg

Sorry about the poor contrast.

Update: found an article with a better pix of the gun assembly.

http://www.earlytelevision.org/pdf/Recent-Improvements-in-the-21AXP22-Color-Kinescope.pdf

jr

Ok here are the official tests on the CRT. The tube tests NOS! This has to be one of the best testing CRTs I've ever seen!

Ok here are the official tests on the CRT. The tube tests NOS! This has to be one of the best testing CRTs I've ever seen!

That TV either was not used much by its former owner(s), or else the CRT you tested is a replacement for the original tube. I cannot believe a 50-60 year-old CRT can be in such good condition. The set may have been used by a little old lady who only watched it, at most, once a week or less, and had the original tube replaced in the '60s-'70s.

I cant seem to find the getters on the 21ax. I know they are normally located in a slot on the neck near the end of the gun assembly, but I cant seem to find it. I do see what looks like silver getter material in the base though near the heaters of the guns. Were the getters ever placed inside the base of the tube rather than on the end of the gun? :scratch2:

The 21AXP22A in my 21CT55 looks the same. There is a picture of it in post #81 of the thread:
http://videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=257587&page=6

Mine has a date code of 5704, about 8 weeks after your date code. It also tested good and makes a nice picture. My avatar is a picture from that set. I say don't worry about the CRT until you get the set operating well enough to get a raster. Nice save!

Dave

...I do see what looks like silver getter material in the base though near the heaters of the guns.
A couple of questions - When you had the tester on it and got those unusually 'good' high readings, were the heaters glowing a nice healthy orange?

If not, was the neck around the gun area getting really, really hot really fast?

A couple of questions - When you had the tester on it and got those unusually 'good' high readings, were the heaters glowing a nice healthy orange?

If not, was the neck around the gun area getting really, really hot really fast?

Seemed like the typical orange glow. Got really hot after about 10 mins. Hope it's not gassy?

Seemed like the typical orange glow.
That's good. It's under vacuum. (If a jug has gone to air, the heaters won't glow, but the neck gets sizzling hot in half a minute due to conduction.)

Got really hot after about 10 mins.
That would be normal.

That's good. It's under vacuum. (If a jug has gone to air, the heaters won't glow, but the neck gets sizzling hot in half a minute due to conduction.)


That would be normal.

Awesome! It should display a beautiful picture then.

I do intend to document almost everything I do while I restore this set both cosmetically and electrically. I am doing this to use it a reference and as a step by step series of the restoration of this set due to how rare it is. Next I decided to get the latex paint specks off of the tuning knob. It was a lot harder to remove the paint on the knob than it was on the cabinet due to the risk of harming the fragile plastic. I soaked the affected areas in olive oil to loosen up the paint and then used a pencil eraser to remove as much as I could. As you can see, I wasn't able to get all of it off, but it looks a whole lot better than it did. :thmbsp:

Very nice. And if you save those bumble bee pulls and sell them on eBay, you might just pay for the set......:D

http://www.ebay.com/itm/585-Sprague-Bumble-Bee-Black-Capacitor-Pulls-0047-0068-0033-0039-/401324622251?hash=item5d70cfc1ab%3Ag%3ApWAAAOSw-K9ZEqFt&nma=true&si=W2l0YmeVzBeFZO9mvVlr8XemqpY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

:screwy: Those audiophiles....

Gee $50-$100 for bumble bee and wax caps? Most always they are bad, leaky, or way off value. When I get a TV or radio with those in it I replace them with modern types. Gosh I have thrown tons of those away. I should have saved them and became rich!

You need to variac the chassis real quick to verify the crt has not gone to air, getting super high readings like that makes me question whether it has gas in it. In my experience an AX that has top of the scale readings on all guns is usually gassy, even the tube in MY COLORCASTER (I bought Ben's set) tests like new, but it doesn't tip the scales all the way on all guns like that one does.

If it is indeed good, you have a winner there. But until you've had HV and a picture on it, all bets are off. Remember: a gassy tube that hasn't yet burned out its heaters will show good readings on test, but still glow purple upon HV application. Hence the only quantitive test is to run it on a chassis, if you get something on the screen it's good.

You need to variac the chassis real quick to verify the crt has not gone to air, getting super high readings like that makes me question whether it has gas in it. In my experience an AX that has top of the scale readings on all guns is usually gassy, even the tube in MY COLORCASTER (I bought Ben's set) tests like new, but it doesn't tip the scales all the way on all guns like that one does.

If it is indeed good, you have a winner there. But until you've had HV and a picture on it, all bets are off. Remember: a gassy tube that hasn't yet burned out its heaters will show good readings on test, but still glow purple upon HV application. Hence the only quantitive test is to run it on a chassis, if you get something on the screen it's good.

I would like to add,

When I first tested the CRT, it did not test this good at all. All guns tested maybe right above the G on the good scale. It didnt test this good until I let it cook for about 10 minutes at 6.3.

So I put it on the variac and after maybe an hour and a half I was up to 100 volts and the 6CB5 started to red plate in the middle of the plate (No HV either). The set is missing most of its tubes, but I did have in the HV cage tubes, the damper, the H out tube, and the vertical out tube. I forgot to add the horizontal multiplier tube so that may account for the red plating 6CB5 and lack of HV. Current draw was about 2.5 amps and normal current is 3 amps at 117v. I must say I am very weary of applying full line voltage to the set with all the original filters, but I need to see if the Jug is gassy (Which I dont think it is.)by applying some HV to it. Everything else seemed to be normal, no burning smells and the power transformer only got lukewarm after being on for an hour and a half.

You can also power it with HV from another chassis, but it would be best to get the native horizontal circuit functioning.

Aha! Cant believe I forgot the horizontal mult tube! We now have a nice and relatively bright raster with great height and width! This set sure is a winner!

There you have it, don't you feel better knowing you won't have to search for a CRT?

There you have it, don't you feel better knowing you won't have to search for a CRT?

A lot better. I would have probably paid close to double what I paid for the set if I needed a new CRT.

We are now a consolette!

Wow, what a great score, and the early signs are encouraging.

To quote Bertie Wooster, "I shall watch your future progress with considerable interest!"

Regards,

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

Thanks Phil. Here's another bit of progress. I went ahead and repainted the channel numbers on the channel knob with a gold pen. It was painstakingly difficult, but I think it turned out nice.

Very nice work on that channel knob!

Amazing purchase!

I'm Jelly.....Matter of fact "I'm the slime" <--Frank Zappa (it is a funny song) :D

Once I'm back on my feet with finances I'll have to make you an offer on it.

Awesome detail work. It encourages me as I typically get them working and move on to another TV. Seeing the Sams Schematic for this TV in my file 35+ years ago, I was sure Id never hear of a survivor and here it is.

Thanks everyone. I spent most of my day today staining and refinishing the legs I bought for the set. I needed to darken their color to better match the color of the set. It isn't perfect, but I am by no means a professional woodworker. I had to use gold spray paint to shine up the brass inserts on the legs since the original plating was so thin it came off when I applied brasso to shine it up. The photos don't exactly indicate a big change in the color in the wood, but in person there is a definite difference.

So glad to see a raster on that set!:) Looks good with legs and freshly painted channel numbers too!

Gee $50-$100 for bumble bee and wax caps? Most always they are bad, leaky, or way off value. When I get a TV or radio with those in it I replace them with modern types. Gosh I have thrown tons of those away. I should have saved them and became rich!


I had been watching a TV show a few years back, about people who use vintage electric guitar amplifiers.
They showed someone wanting to sell some amplifiers, and the buyers were interested, but demanded they be allowed to open the amplifiers to check the electronics inside.
When they opened them up, metal can (w/plastic cover) lytics were revealed. The prospective buyers refused to buy the amplifiers at any price, protesting that only paper lytics gave "The sound"!

Don't they know they can get "The sound" back by running a line from the power cord, through a resistor, to the grids of the input tubes?

Anyone who invested their money into a McIntosh, Scott or Fender amplifier "back in the day" certainly didn't want "The sound" A 60Hz buzz. There's a sucker born every minute!

There are 2 schools of tube amp design that depend on the customer: HiFi source listener, or musician.

The HiFi listener wants the minimum distortion achievable when playing back their LPs, etc.

The musician wants lots of distortion, but very specific types, tuned so that the amp becomes an extension of the instrument they intend to play through it.

Ever wonder why most electric guitar (especially in rock music) sounds nothing like acoustic?....The amp's distortion is the answer. Many electric guitars sound like an acoustic if not passed through an amp that imparts the correct distortion.

The pre-amp stages of many guitar amps are purposely designed to go into clipping at higher settings of their sub volume control...That clipping adds desirable characteristics to the sound...The output stage clipping also has some bearing on the sound (those amps outputs are often also intentionally driven to clipping), and the stiffness of the power supply regulation/filtering will affect that. In some pre-amp stages having leaky paper caps is key to achieving the distortion wanted: the caps will act like diodes above a certain voltage threshold and change the wave shape of the signal passed.

Most musicians are, when it comes to electronics, completely non-technical people (and some of their tastes are based more on experience/superstition than science), but if you take an amp that has "the sound" they want and analyze how it changes the waveform of the signal it is passing and how the bad caps in it affect that, then it is possible to build modern amps with "the sound" and reliable parts....I know someone who does that type of work.

Sorry to go OT.

Well since pretty much all of the cosmetic work on this set is done, I can finally move it into my room. It will sit next to the Pensbury for now. Its pretty crammed in here now :D. It will eventually take the place of the CTC-5 which will be moving up north to Minnesota here soon. Now it awaits its electrical restoration once the 4 is done (which should be very soon).

It looks showroom new in the photo. Great work! Now on to the good stuff .... :-)

Well since pretty much all of the cosmetic work on this set is done, I can finally move it into my room. It will sit next to the Pensbury for now. Its pretty crammed in here now :D. It will eventually take the place of the CTC-5 which will be moving up north to Minnesota here soon. Now it awaits its electrical restoration once the 4 is done (which should be very soon).

Beautiful cosmetic condition for this rare color set. Like most of the mid 50's entry level color sets it was pretty much a box with a screen. Admiral, like other manufactures, did have several sets that model year that were fine furniture. This Admiral Patrician model, I don't believe, has ever surfaced among collectors .

-Steve D.

Beautiful cosmetic condition for this rare color set. Like most of the mid 50's entry level color sets it was pretty much a box with a screen. Admiral, like other manufactures, did have several sets that model year that were fine furniture. This Admiral Patrician model, I don't believe, has ever surfaced among collectors .

-Steve D.

Is that thing one piece, or is the table it's sitting on seperate? Just wondering. :)

Edit: If none have ever surfaced, I suppose you don't know... :scratch2:

I believe the table was separate. If you look closely you can see black objects on the bottom where the set meets the table which almost look like feet. The Patrician was the credenza version of the C322 series I believe.

I believe the table was separate. If you look closely you can see black objects on the bottom where the set meets the table which almost look like feet. The Patrician was the credenza version of the C322 series I believe.

Actually I'm not sure if the set was on small feet sitting on the bottom platform or is attached to the platform as one piece. All the Admiral models had a C322 # followed by additional #'s to indicate cabinet style and finish ect.

-Steve D.

Actually I'm not sure if the set was on small feet sitting on the bottom platform or is attached to the platform as one piece.

-Steve D.

I guess we wont know till one surfaces! :scratch2:

It was one piece. I had one years ago. Mine was blonde with a black base.

It was one piece. I had one years ago. Mine was blonde with a black base.

Thanks Steve.

-Steve D.

Does anyone here have a schematic for run 18 of the 29Z1 chassis? Sams only covers up through run 17.

If you do not have the factory manuals, you need Admiral service manuals S592 and S592a. They are at The ETF listed with the SAMS. All the best,Tom.J

If you do not have the factory manuals, you need Admiral service manuals S592 and S592a. They are at The ETF listed with the SAMS. All the best,Tom.J

Unfortunately, the ETF manual (S592) doesnt have a schematic for the run 18 chassis. Im guessing that S592a might have it, but the ETF does not have that manual on hand.

Well SwizzyMan here is the link, www.earlytelevision.org/pdf/Admiral_Service_Manual_S592a.pdf I downloaded it at 9:20p.m. Its' a long URL so not all of it shows in the link. Tom.J

Well SwizzyMan here is the link, www.earlytelevision.org/pdf/Admiral_Service_Manual_S592a.pdf I downloaded it at 9:20p.m. Its' a long URL so not all of it shows in the link. Tom.J

Swizzyman,

I also found the S592A service manual in my stash. But probably just as ez for you to download it from the ETF site.

-Steve D.

Well SwizzyMan here is the link, www.earlytelevision.org/pdf/Admiral_Service_Manual_S592a.pdf I downloaded it at 9:20p.m. Its' a long URL so not all of it shows in the link. Tom.J

Oh...duh! Can't believe I missed that! Thanks Tom

I am taking a break from the 4 for awhile. I'm now turning most of my attention to servicing a horizontal issue on the 5. But I am still doing some minor things with the Regent. Does anyone know how I could possibly replicate the metal insert on the channel knob? The volume knob lost its insert long ago. Any Ideas?

IIRC I found a couple of those knobs a few months back. A transplant or replacement knob may be possible if the ones I'm thinking of are the same.

IIRC I found a couple of those knobs a few months back. A transplant or replacement knob may be possible if the ones I'm thinking of are the same.

That would work perfectly if you have some. Let me know and I'll buy em!

Still looking for knobs or ideas to fabricate a new knob insert. Were you able to search for those knobs Tom?

Those inserts look like they could be made on a lathe from sheet aluminum. Shaping them using hardwood over a wooden dowel shaped on the end like the mating surface of the plastic knob.

The real trick would be to keep the center smooth as it needs the lathe's "dead center" to keep it in place while shaping.

Never tried it but just an idea from my experience in a shop. I have an HH Scott stereo receiver missing several similar aluminum "caps" from its knobs. The glue was not worth crap in the old days.

Still looking for knobs or ideas to fabricate a new knob insert. Were you able to search for those knobs Tom?

Crap...I knew I was forgetting something.:stupid::withstpd: I'll check when I get home tonight.

I found them, and they may work.

I'm trying to find a way to upload the pictures. My main PC melted down back on saturday so I need to figure out my flickr password or wait till the spare parts for my machine show up....

I found them, and they may work.

I'm trying to find a way to upload the pictures. My main PC melted down back on saturday so I need to figure out my flickr password or wait till the spare parts for my machine show up....

No worries, just let me know when you can get them up. Just PM me or post it here.

Now that my main PC is working again... Here are the pictures.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4505/36851018864_a799f7e2b5_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Y9p73d) https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4465/37302747320_b606eb2d7e_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/YQjkaS) https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4483/37302753440_01affd9dee_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/YQjmZo)

They are different in that there is more metal covering the plastic, but the plastic and the center of the metal caps appear the same. There are two avenues I see for using these: Cut the center out of the channel knob metal, or use the center of the knob you have to complete the knob I have that is missing it's center and have a set of knobs with more metal on them on the set.

I'll let you have one or both of the knobs for $5+whatever shipping costs.
My PM box is near capacity so use my Email, or PM me for my email address and we can work out the details.

Sorry for the late reply, just saw this. The only thing I could really do is to cut out the centerpiece on the metal part of the knob. Question is, how would I do that cleanly?

Suggest someone skilled with a fine blade band saw.

-Steve D.

Suggest someone skilled with a fine blade band saw.

-Steve D.

Wish I knew of any. There's got to be a way to fabricate something to replace it. If worst comes to worst, I'll buy Tom's knobs.

Any woodworking shop or metal fabricating shop will have a band saw. Also consider 3-D printing of the knob. You may have to do a little legwork to achieve your ends.

-Steve D.

wow awesome find,and a crt that stood the test of time , hopefully there are still more great finds still hiding out there just waiting to be found ..

Work has finally begun! Just placed an order for the filters. I pulled the chassis yesterday and did some cleanup today. This involved having to pull out the jug to be able to get to everything and it will make working on the chassis a whole lot easier. The chassis was covered in a copious amount of dust. After digging it all out, I was surprised to find metal :D. I still have more cleaning work to do tomorrow.

More photos

Make sure to save the old caps so if the next owner wants to restuff them they can.

Make sure to save the old caps so if the next owner wants to restuff them they can.

I was planning to restuff them using the uncrimp method. I am restuffing all paper caps. A lot are bumblebees though so I dont know how I'll get around those.

If you are lucky some have split at the seams making them restuffable....The non-split ones I've never rebuilt.....My only idea for restuffing an intact bee is to cut the ends off then use a drill press or dremmel to gut one, then drill holes on the ends for the new leads to go through and glue the ends back on...I never tried that idea though so I may be way off base.

So nice to see all those pictures of it apart, looks great! I'm looking forward to more pictures after it's recapped and making a nice picture! So glad that set is in a collector's hands!

Thanks for the kind words Dave. I just finished cleaning off the dust and dirt on the chassis and anything left is just corrosion. Cleaning the HV area was like defusing a bomb. I knew If I screwed up anything on that flyback it was game over. Did a slow power up on the variac to make sure I did not hurt anything. Chassis produces a solid 14.3kv with no electrical work done. Now for a set of tubes and some new electrolytics. We are in good shape! :yes:

If the shunt tube drags down your HV, check the value of the resistors around the 6BK4 grid.

Just powered it up on the variac again, but this time I brought it up to 117 volts instead of 100v. Fly now produces 19.5kv regulated AND UNregulated. HV section is really in good shape! Going to start unmounting the lytics and will restuff them when parts get here on Friday.

Great news!

Should make more than that, horizontal section likely needs to be set up.

Should make more than that, horizontal section likely needs to be set up.

Im sure it will produce more as I replace caps and resistors in those circuits. Interesting as sams calls for 13 to 18.5kv with a target voltage of 16kv and the admiral manual calls for 20kv (which I am going for and then some.)

You're off to a very good start, I'd say!

Sams has an obvious error, if it’s tuned up right it’ll make 22kv easy.

I know my CTC-5 maxed out at around 19.5kv. It seems happy there.

This isn’t a CTC-5, and the 5 is an enigma anyway. The flyback in these sets looks closest to a 4 to me, but definitely makes more HV than a 5.

Well after receiving my yearly dose of Pcbs and other assorted carcinogens in a few days, the filter caps are finally restuffed and installed and all is well with the chassis. I'm torn on whether to keep recapping or install the jug and see what I get with a full set of tubes and new filters.

Here is my method of restuffing the cans.

Continued..

That's about the way that I do them. I have purchased over the years a few NOS capacitors specifically for the purpose of procuring the steel mounting ring out of them. The "Twist Loc" tabs are usually not in the best of condition when you remove the old capacitor from the phenolic mounting washer.

Nice job...

To the folks somewhere back up in the thread: What were you all saying about guitar amplifier snobs wanting the original caps in their amps? I've always thought that 'stuffing' old caps was quite a bit nutty too.

The whole thing about the caps in guitar amps primarily has to do with the tonal qualities of the amp vs. the types of caps used in its build. It's not necessarily the old caps that give it 'the sound'. It's what type of caps give it 'the sound'. It's usually a matter of PIO (paper in oil) vs. Poly/Mylar. (I call it "IT". PIO caps have "IT" while Poly/Mylar caps do not). The sound guitarists are looking for is a combination of tone coloration, breakup/distortion and compression/sag. Power filter caps do not generally affect the tone but rather the responsiveness of the amp. Old filter caps allow a lot of sag in the power supply which lends the amp to having a natural compression on it's output. Beefing up the power supply with new and/or larger capacity filters tightens up the amp and gives it's output a more aggressive attack. Replaced filter caps in the power supply are usually not viewed as a bad thing. Sag can also be adjusted with use of different rectifier tubes. Breakup/distortion is most easily achieved and controlled with preamp tube gain and speaker cone material, design and size.

The caps that matter the most in a guitar are in the tone stack/circuit. In a vintage amp the worst possible thing you can do is change these, especially if they were relatively in spec. It's generally agreed that PIO caps have a richer harmonic quality than Mylar. I know in theory it doesn't make any sense but when you hear them side by side, there is a difference. I didn't believe it either until I tried it. Aside from the amp, the PIO caps in the tone control in the guitar have an even more dramatic effect than they do in the amp. Most guitars have the tiniest most basic of Mylar caps(some even use ceramic caps) on their tone controls. When you swap those out for a PIO cap, it completely changes the harmonic richness of the guitar's output. The tone control becomes much smoother and more responsive to change. Any PIO is good for this but the general consensus is Sprague Bumblebees, Black Beauties and Vitamin Q's are the best(hence they want the "old" caps).

SO, in the future, don't go knocking somebody about wanting old caps in their guitar amps and they won't laugh at you for being anal enough to spend countless hours stuffing new caps into old caps. Because both schools of thought are a little nutty. :lmao:

Didnt really need to write a book to prove your point pal...
It is well known that more people believe "audiophiles" are nuts than people that restore vintage TVs. I would never use any black beauty caps in my tube amps that will short, explode, and kill my amp. That's just common sense, or maybe it isn't since you think it's ok? Most of the TVs I find I just toss. There are so many old b&w sets out there that when I do restore them, I use the cheapest parts available simply because I want the damn thing to work. I spend a bit extra on the hard to find sets since there are none. There are hundreds of thousands of tube amps out there that were cheaply made back in the 60s and 70s and the audiofools try to make a cheap piece of equipment better by using leaky caps and expensive parts, where is the thought process in that pursuit? My fender super twin reverb ( which is uncommon ) was restored with the cheapest caps and tubes and it sounds amazing. While you are welcome to voice your opinions about a side topic of this thread, all it is going to do is start a pointless war of words between all of us and in the end no one will win. Take your complaints and post about them in the off topic section. That's why we have it. :yes:

Checked HOT cathode current and it settles out at around 185 to 190 ma. Seems pretty good but will still do a horizontal alignment. Going to try to throw the jug on it tomorrow and see what happens.

Now that I finally have some time on my hands, it's time to get back to work on the Regent. I will start recapping tomorrow. As you all know, I am trying to keep everything as original looking as possible. This means restuffing all caps and finding a full set of Admiral branded tubes. However I have one major obstacle when it comes to restuffing caps, most paper caps are bumblebees and plastic case which are especially difficult to restuff. Has anyone done this before and can it be done efficiently and effectively? Only I can think of is just splitting them at the seems with a small screwdriver.

Might be better off molding some material silicone/epoxy/clay/etc. over the new caps then paint it to look like the black beauties. Or restuff some paper shell caps of the same value and use those.

Here is the first attempt at replicating bumblebees. This took me over an hour to do and it didn't turn out that great. Well it's better than nothing I guess. Can you guess the value?

Personally I would never waste my time re-stuffing any paper or bumble bee caps. As far as I am concerned, what is under the chassis nobody can see so why bother. Now if we are talking about a historically significant pre-war set, that is a different story, But as they say "to each his own"

So as I read this thread, it got me to thinking. Would it be possible to re-stuff a bakelite Bumble Bee????

The answer is a resounding YES...Provided you have the right equipment and skill set. So here is the procedure I developed this afternoon and you can do this if you have a machine lathe.

1. First step is to take you bumble bee and cut the leads off as close to the body as possible. Then using a grinder or a small belt sander grind the wire stubs till they are flush with the Bakelite as seen in photo #1

2. Now mount the capacitor in the chuck of your lathe and using a centering drill make a small starting divot in the end of the capacitor. Then swap your centering drill with a 1/16" twist drill and drill into the end of the capacitor until the bit gets into the foil bundle inside. Then repeat this on the other end of the capacitor. Photos #2 and #3

3. At this point we need to cut one end of the Bakelite body off. With the lathe running, I use a hack saw and cut through the capacitor as seen in Photo #4. The result is the 2 pieces shown in Photo #5

4. Now it is time to remove the insides from the Bakelite body. I start by drilling a 1/4" hole down the center to remove some of the foil and paper bundle. The drill should not advance to quickly. Advance and withdraw the bit over and over until you have reached the end of the foil bundle. Be careful not to drill through the end of the Bakelite. The foil and paper should come out as shavings if you are advancing at the correct speed. Drilling too fast will create heat and stress the Bakelite and risk breaking it. I broke a couple before I got the technique down correctly. Photo #6

Continued in the next post because of the 6 photo limit on VK.

5. In this step, we continue to remove the foil bundle with successively larger drill bits. Your drill bits need to be Factory Sharp. Dull drill bits will crack the fragile Bakelite. As with the 1/4" drill, advance and withdraw the bit and slowly work you way down to the opposite end, being careful not to break through the opposite end of the Bakelite body. I was able to drill as large as 29/64" which was able to accommodate a .2uf 630v yellow metalized polyester axial capacitor. All you have to do at this point is insert the new capacitor and use some 5 minute epoxy to re-attach the Bakelite end piece. Photos #7 thru #10

I would imagine your first thought is can this be done without a lathe? Perhaps on a drill press? It will never happen, take my word for it. If you try to drill the foil bundle out using a drill you are going to break the Bakelite when you start to enlarge the inside diameter to accommodate the diameter of the new cap. This is not just a mater of removing the old foil bundle, this involves machining the inside diameter of the Bakelite.

Shop time is about 20 minutes per capacitor once I developed the skill set and methodology so that the Bakelite did not break. If you were to hire a machinist to do this I would expect it would cost about $20 a pop.

These were large Bumble Bees. .2uf and .15uf 400 volt caps. I would imagine this would be possible with physically smaller Bakelite caps as well, just as long as your new cap is small enough to fit inside the old Bakelite body.

Ready to get back on this with some newly discovered free time. There are a couple of oddball caps in the grid circuit of the CRT and I am wondering if I can use ceramics in place of the old paper caps or if I should stick to film caps. The caps in question couple the center tap of each screen control to the grids themselves. I can't help but worry that as the set warms up with ceramics, the values may drift and so will my screen levels thus affecting temperature. So bottom line, paper or ceramic?

...The caps in question couple the center tap of each screen control to the grids themselves...

I don't understand what you're saying compared to the little snip of the schematic. It looks like these couple all three (of something) to a common point, not each screen control to each grid (?)

Edit: also, there should be no way that the cap's values would affect the DC screen voltage, so that should not be a concern.

Whoops. Here's a bigger snippet of the schematic. My bad.

OK, still looks like there's no way these could affect the screen control voltages.

Little late to the party. But congratulations on acquiring that rare Admiral Regent model. Here's an ad featuring your set. Should look good on the wall behind your color tv.

-Steve D.

Alright then ceramics it is then. And thanks Steve! I'll make sure to frame those when I finish this up.

I wonder why the red screen has a lower voltage range than the other 2?

I wonder why the red screen has a lower voltage range than the other 2?

The red phosphor is the least efficient of the three phosphors. In order to produce balanced white, the red gun must supply 47 to 67 percent of the total anode current, whereas blue is 11 to 24 percent, and green is 20 to 33 percent.

This is why with the early color CRTs that are under vacuum but weak (say a 15GP22, 19VP22, 21AXP22, or 21CYP2), it is more often than not the red gun that is toast with the blue testing fine, and the green somewhere in-between.

I wonder how many of those sets were sold. Most TV stations and networks, except NBC, weren't broadcasting much color programming in 1956; many if not most local TV stations were not even set up for color telecasting then. Cincinnati's NBC affiliate, WLWT channel 5, was a pioneer in local color telecasting, being one of very few stations at the time to have the capability to broadcast color film, videotape, network and local programming. The only other TV stations to have such full color capability at the time were probably the network O & O (owned and operated) stations in (at the time) New York, Chicago and Los Angeles. The rest broadcast network color shows in b&w, converting to color as their finances permitted; some stations in smaller cities may not have done so, again for financial reasons, until the 1960s or even the '70s. The networks all had color presentation logos (NBC's peacock, ABC's lower-case "abc" in the middle of a large black dot, and CBS' animated logo in which the letters "CBS" dropped into place on viewers' screens, with the network's "eye" logo appearing at the very far right of the screen, and an announcer proclaiming "CBS presents this program in color"), but most folks saw these in b&w.

I am sure color TV sets were out of reach of most folks in the 1950s because of the $500 price tag at the time. I think most folks who had a TV at all in those days were watching black and white, not getting color until years or decades later (see my comments above). The only time many of these folks ever saw color TV was at a friend's or neighbor's home, and then only for extra-special programs. Add to this the extra cost (and frequency) of service calls on color sets (much more often than b&w) in the 1950s, and it isn't difficult to imagine why color TV did not become popular (i. e. did not "take off") until the 1960s-'70s. NBC may have been the first US television network to broadcast 100-percent color programming, starting in 1966, but I am sure, as I said, most folks didn't see many of those programs in color, on their own sets, for years or decades after that because of the sheer cost of color TV receivers at the time.

Me curios: what made early color sets so unrelaible? (black and white ones could work for years with no problem).

Me curios: what made early color sets so unrelaible? (black and white ones could work for years with no problem).

In color television's early days, the technology was brand new and had a lot of bugs that had to be worked out, as with all new technologies; yes, even flat screen HDTVs when they first appeared on the American TV market. The first flat screens were also very expensive and had bugs, not the least of which was a phenomenon called "image burn-in" in which an image could and all too often would permanently burn itself onto the screen; this ususally occurred if a stationary image was left on the screen for an extended period of time. It was for this reason owners of plasma flat screens, now obsolete, were warned not to view stationary pictures or images, such as network or TV station logos, for any length of time, otherwise the image would burn itself into the screen, ruining said screen. Such damage would not be covered by the manufacturer's warranty.

Color television sets are also much more complicated than b&w sets, which meant the early ones, especially, had more to go wrong with them. Another problem with early color sets was that the set could not be moved from one location to another, even in the same room, without the CRT becoming magnetized; this meant having to "degauss" the tube every time the set was moved any distance, using a degaussing coil. Black and white (monochrome) television CRTs did not require degaussing, since they had no shadow mask to become magnetized. B&W tubes did, however, have a device called an "ion trap", a magnet which fit around the neck of the CRT. As its name implies, the ion trap traps negative ions and prevents them from burning the CRT screen, which of course would ruin the tube immediately. The ion trap must be adjusted for maximum brightness, usually only after the CRT is replaced.

Later color sets (and all sets up to the end of the NTSC era) had automatic degaussing systems, with the coil mounted permanently to the bell of the CRT; the coil was activated by a thermistor. These auto-degausser systems degaussed the tube every time the TV was turned on. This auto-degaussing system made it possible to move a color set from one room to another (or anywhere, for that matter), without having to worry about the CRT's shadow mask becoming magnetized. A magnetized shadow mask would cause purity distortion and other problems that would degrade the picture. This would not harm the CRT or the television itself, but it would cause ugly color blotches on the screen, most noticeable on b&w programs, although these blotches will also be seen on a solid color raster (usually red) which is normally used for purity adjustments.

Me curios: what made early color sets so unrelaible? (black and white ones could work for years with no problem).

A few things. First, most color sets made before 1960, the earlier the more this is true, had paper capacitors in them while post1960 sets used more film based caps. Monochrome sets before film caps were about as bad as color sets were. Earlier models tended to be overcomplicated and the more parts with fixed failure probability the higher the probability of the device failing as a whole.
Many color sets into the mid 60's were RCA based and RCA used circuit boards. Boards are not the best thing to put tubes on and tend to fail from heat.

When Zenith entered the game it was not uncommon for their sets to last a solid decade maybe with some work. GE potracolors somehow use fewer parts than some monochrome sets of their day and tend to last longer than those sets as well...Ultimately in a really good design (there were many mediocre/bad ones) the more parts in the set the sooner it dies...Color had more parts on average.

Got tired of seeing this collect dust on the bench so I'm back at it. Halfway through the recapping procedure and decided to do a mid course status check. I noticed the tuner has no effect on the picture and is completely dead. So I had to inject a composite signal to G1 of the video output. The video circuit is new to me atleast. There is not a video amp tube before the output tube. I'm guessing the 4 stage IF eliminates the need for one? Considering most of the newer production sets (CTC 5, 7, 10 etc) use a 3 stage IF instead of 4 and add a video amp tube. This setup threw me off guard when I went to inject a composite signal, I didnt think it would work since the output is past the delay line and the signal would effectively not even pass through the delay line so the chromanince and luma signals would be all out of wack. I was able to get a picture which is pretty incoherent, but it does show signs of life! I still am wondering if composite video can be effectively injected in this set, I have moy doubts. The carrier video voltage is only 1 volt though so no preamp should be needed.

You got me to look at the schematic.

The 4 stage IF doesn't necessarily eliminate the need for a first video amp in terms of video voltage, at least not in terms of luma amplitude. In sets with a first video amp, the first amp is used as a cathode follower for luma to drive the delay line, so there is no voltage gain, just a low impedance output to drive a defined resistance into the delay line. It's hard to know, however, if the final IF output transformer in the Admiral is actually providing a lower impedance than in other maker's designs (supplying more current, not voltage), thereby replacing the impedance matching effect of a cathode follower stage. To answer this speculation, you need to know the turns ratio of the last IF transformer that drives the detector and also calculate how much load the detector and its following circuitry represents.

The luma circuitry in this set also contains some mutually coupled coils that look like video phase correction. Very interesting.

The IF stage is horribly out of alignment so I'd like to just bypass it and the tuner for now and inject a direct video and audio signal into the set. Of course with the absence of a video amp before the luminance line, I'm not sure where to inject a composite video signal. Anyone here know where I should inject the composite video signal? Here is the schematic http://www.earlytelevision.org/pdf/admiral_c322c_sams_383-1.pdf

It's hard to trace through where the grid bias of the video amp comes from, but a good thing to try first might be to open the connections to the detectors by disconecting L20 and L28, then tie L20 and L28 together as a video injection point. This should work OK for chroma, as it is capacitively coupled, but you may have to supply some negative grid bias for the video amp (schematic says -.8 v at the grid). But that is after the delay line, so just try coupling video through and see what happens first. Or, measure the DC at the detector output before you modify anything, to get an idea of what's needed.

It's hard to trace through where the grid bias of the video amp comes from, but a good thing to try first might be to open the connections to the detectors by disconecting L20 and L28, then tie L20 and L28 together as a video injection point. This should work OK for chroma, as it is capacitively coupled, but you may have to supply some negative grid bias for the video amp (schematic says -.8 v at the grid). But that is after the delay line, so just try coupling video through and see what happens first. Or, measure the DC at the detector output before you modify anything, to get an idea of what's needed.

Alright ill try that and see what happens. Will eventually align the IF.

Decided to just align the IF and the difference is night and day. The picture is crystal clear aside from the slight hv interference since my video cable was pretty much touching the hv wire. The sound is crisp and clear and it overall looks SO much better. Now I gotta do some basic setup before I move on to color setup. Make that another living c332!

:thmbsp:

And we now have color and a decent picture! Went ahead and just aligned everything yesterday and today. Chroma and If are now aligned and the picture is pretty damn good. Dynamic convergence is an absolute nightmare on this one though so ill have to spend a few hours trying to sort that out tomorrow. I'll post more pictures after I do some touch ups of the basic setup.

Nice work.

I have been having trouble getting the chroma to stay in sync. Sometimes when the set is turned on, the chroma is working but then 15 minutes later the frequency goes off and the chroma dies leaving me with a black and white picture. And sometimes the set turns on with no chroma but then after 10 minutes im able to bring it back by adjusting the reactance coil. I have already tried replacing tubes to no effect and the resistors in the oscillator circuit seem to be fine with none grossly out of tolerance. Ill post a picture of the oscillator circuit and see if any has any ideas on what to check.
Oh and one thing that I think may be causing this is the fact that the -6v bias needed on pin 1 of the 6al5 and part of the color killer circuit drifts slowly. The chroma has been aligned so im not worried about improper alignment being an issue.

R178 12 meg could be drifting with heat. These high megaohm resistors are notorious for drifting.

Also check R179 10 meg going to 295 volts.

If I read the schematic correctly, pin 1 of the 6AL5 is the phase detector output, and the voltage *should* vary somewhat to keep the oscillator in sync as other circuit components drift. This is the voltage you monitor when adjusting the oscillator frequency, so if it varies after adjustment it means either that the oscillator frequency is drifting or some other input connected to the oscillator control is drifting, or the oscillator control itself is drifting, and causing the detector output to compensate and keep lock. When the drift is too big, the phase detector reaches its output limit, and the oscillator continues to go off frequency and out of lock. Once the circuit is out of lock, the output of the detector becomes a beat note (AC waveform) with less DC control voltage (average offset), so checking the DC when the oscillator is not locked doesn't tell you much.

Replacing those resistors seems to have no effect. I wonder if the actual coil is drifting?

Have you tried replacing the 6U8 oscillator/control tube?
Also note C141, 2.0 pf NPO and C146, 82 pf NPO are both critical to frequency stability, which is why the temperature coefficient is specified.
I would suspect these components before the coils, I think.

Also C136, C145, C142, and C143 are supposed to be 10 or 100 times too big to affect the oscillator frequency, so I would check if they are in nominal range or not.

why not have Elizabeth Taylor advertise it for you..

I have made a few advancements in the past week which I will discuss later. But first I need an answer on whether the cathode current I am getting is safe. I’m getting 176 ma after dipping the horizontal linearity coil. Is this Ok for a 6cb5 and more importantly my fly back?

If it were a CTC-12/15/16, I'd say that is an excellent dip current...at the very least I'd imagine it is decent. You can only make that system so efficient with tubes and still have it work. If anyone knows the figure by all means correct me.

A good rule of thumb is temperature after 10, 30 min and 3 hour run times. If it is just a pinch warm holding it immediately after power off, but not very warm/ hot it is.probably fine.

Was able to get it down to 170 with adjusting the drive. I feel a bit better now about it. I’ll let it run for a while and see how hot the fly gets.

OK im in need of some help here with the color phase alignment. I have already completed the sync setup so im not worried about that. The scope steps of this procedure are very confusing and im not really sure what im looking for in the wave forms. Particularly steps 2 and 5-8. Can someone here tell me what im looking for when making those adjustments on the scope? I really want to get this project wrapped up before Christmas so any help is greatly appreciated!

Scope adjustments:

Step 2: you are adjusting the 3.58 MHz trap for minimum dot pattern on the screen, which will be seen as minimum "fuzz" or line thickness on the scope. (Scope sweep set to horizontal rate)

Steps 6 and 7: you are adjusting the B-Y demodulator to have null ouput on R-Y and the R-Y demodulator to have null output on B-Y. If you don't have the specified bar generator, you can use a gated rainbow pattern and null out the appropriate bar.

Set scope to horizontal rate.
To adjust B-Y demod, one peak of the waveform should be on the burst and the opposite peak 6 bars later. The midpoint bar (third after the burst) should be nulled, that is, halfway between the peaks, and equal to the black background between bars.

The red (R-Y) drive should have opposite polarity peaks on bar #3 and #9 and null on burst and bar#6.
The blue (B-Y) drive should have opposite peaks on burst and bar#6 and null on #3 and #9.

These waveforms are from a Zenith, but the lower ones of each pair are essentially the same as you expect on any set with a gated rainbow signal

It also would have helped if I used the correct color bar pattern. I was just using a ntsc pattern which isn’t right. But I don’t have a generator that will produce that type of bar pattern. I don’t know if my lcg 400 will make those bars or not.

I looked at the control panel of the lcg 400 and apparently there is no way to turn off the B-Y or R-Y phases independently. With a full screen color bar pattern, you should get patterns like the attached on the CRT
(left to right):
cathode will be inverted luma (left waveform, but inverted))
Blue grid will be the middle waveform when B-Y phase is correct;
Red grid will be the right waveform when R-Y phase is correct

Relative amplitudes of the three waveforms may be different due to need to drive red gun harder.

It's much harder to get this exactly right this way than using the gated rainbow and adjusting for the correct nulls, which are very sensitive to correct phase; but it can be done close enough.

Bump: have you had a chance to try the color phase adjustments?

Hey everyone it's been awhile. It's time to get back to work on the Regent after a long hiatus. I've since moved and started my journey for my electrical engineering degree and my motivation to finish this project has sparked. I am now in need of a new 3.58 trap coil. My current one has a chunk missing from the ferrite core. It seems like a pretty hard part to find with only an Admiral part number listed on both the sams(L23) and Admiral (L211) service manuals.
The part number is listed as 72D165-5. Does anyone here have a way to possibly cross reference this part? Or better yet someone may have one?

I just looked at the schematic, and phooey, it's a center tapped coil, so no easy replacement.

How much core is missing, and is the remainder seized? If all the stars are aligned, you still may be able to tune it. If not, just adding a short core to what's there might work.

Here's a picture of the coil. It's a sizable chunk missing, but not huge I guess. Not sure how much it would affect tuning.

I'm having trouble telling how big the missing part is from the photo. Is it just that lighter colored part, and how deep is the cavity? Anyway, if it's less than 5% or so of the core, I'd bet on it working. Just have to be careful about it seizing up when you try to adjust it.

I'm having trouble telling how big the missing part is from the photo. Is it just that lighter colored part, and how deep is the cavity? Anyway, if it's less than 5% or so of the core, I'd bet on it working. Just have to be careful about it seizing up when you try to adjust it.

Agree. If it doesn't tune or the remainder of the slug is split, then *gently* heating the coil may loosen the wax enough to allow the slug to be rotated out. Once out, another can be matched.

John

Agree. If it doesn't tune or the remainder of the slug is split, then *gently* heating the coil may loosen the wax enough to allow the slug to be rotated out. Once out, another can be matched.

John

+1
If you know how long the original was you can find one the same length (or cut a longer one down to match).
If you have the part that broke off you could super glue it back on, but if a core is brittle enough to crack I try to replace with a newer less brittle one...Life sucks when it cracks down the length of the slug when it's in the coil and if it that happens because you ignored the warning signs you will want to kick your self (ask me how I know).

Luckily the slug came out with ease. Now that I can see the whole slug, I'm inclined to think that the chunk missing may not be significant enough to really affect tuning in my opinion. Here are some photos of the damage and measurements of the slug.

Looks promising - good luck!

Do you have any of the end that chipped off to know the original length? It's hard to say if it is within 5% of the original amount of material if you don't know how much material was there originally...

I don't have any of the remaining material. Im pretty sure the longest edge of the chipped side is equal to the full length of the slug.

I recently purchased one of these early, '56 Admiral color roundies in Florida to add to the collection.

Anyone have any thoughts of burnishing some graphite into the slug before reinserting it? It might decrease stiction enough to prevent it splitting and becoming an expanding brake in the coil core..

John

Anyone have any thoughts of burnishing some graphite into the slug before reinserting it? It might decrease stiction enough to prevent it splitting and becoming an expanding brake in the coil core..

John

That's only effective if you first clean the inside bore of the coil and the threads of the slug with a Q-tip soaked in a fluid that dissolves wax (such as Goof Off)... Many coils are exposed to enough heat in opperation to soften or melt wax and once wax has melted in to the threads it's only slightly less bad than glue...

I went through and replaced a bunch of off value resistors in the chroma and IF section and am going to attempt another IF and chroma alignment. I am debating putting the crt back in the chassis since having it installed makes the chassis awkward to work on and puts some mechanical stress on the crt when tilted on its side. Do I really need the crt installed to do alignments and dip the HOT cathode current?

Well the coil troubles have gotten worse. While trying to perform an IF alignment on the set I ran into a coil (L9-41.25 and 47.25mhz trap) that had its slug frozen inside of the shaft. Long story short no amount of heating would make it budge so I ended up having to break up the slug inside of the shaft. I now need a replacement slug and luckily the top slug in the coil was able to be removed so I was able to get some measurements of the replacement I need. Coincidentally, the slug out of this coil appears to be identical in size to the chipped slug in the 3.58 trap. Does anyone have 2 of these slugs? Or is there somewhere I could possibly find some? Can't continue any work until I get this problem sorted out so any help is appreciated.

Heating alone is only half the solution. You need to be able to dissolve the hardened wax. I use a squirt of WD40, wait overnight, and if it still will not turn, then hit it with heat gun and more WD40. Also, never use anything besides a plastic alignment tool. Allen wrenches are a sure way to crack the ferite core.

I was originally going to try using WD40, but I was concerned on how it would affect the cardboard tube so I held off. I'll keep that method in mind from now on. And I have confirmed that that the thread size of the slug is 1/4-28 so that should help.

SwizzyMan, I'm amazed that you write so well. You even know the difference between "affect" and "effect", seemingly a rarity among most engineers these days! Bravo!!! Good luck in your projects.

Checking out your photos early on in the thread, I noticed the crazy browned glass on the rectifier. Also, great job on the cabinet restoration. I need to try that Restore a finish on a similar cabinet.

Appreciate the kinds words guys. Still trying to solve my slug problem though. Does anyone have some input here? I really would like to get back to work on this set.

Sorry don't have anything - do you have a donor chassis you could borrow a core from? Probably doesn't even have to be a TV - a radio might do.

The only other chassis I'm positive would have some is my ctc4, but I'd rather not borrow from that one. I do have a 50s rca junker b&w set that may have some so i will check that tomorrow. I was able to pull a few slugs out of some of my other junk chassis, but they were all too short or either had the slot adjustment instead of hex.

Ok so I think I may have found a suitable replacement slug, but I still have some questions before I re-install the IF transformer. My main concern is the fact that the replacement I found has the slot adjustment. My main concern with using this type in place of the hex style is the possible tuning frequency range differences caused by the slot slug having more ferrite mass than the hex slug. Would it really cause any issues when aligning the set? Keep in mind the slot slug will be paired with a hex slug in the transformer I am dealing with since it is a two "slugged" coil. What do you guys think?

The only problem I really see is reaching the bottom slug through the top one. The top will either be the slot slug and block a tuning tool, or be the hex and block a blade tool. There were some plastic hex tools with a short blade detail on the end of the hex. Do you have one?

Edit: I didn't mean that it's impossible the slot slug may produce too much inductance. The best way to find out is to try it. What's most likely is that its position will be a little less into the coil. In the extreme case, this could affect the Q of the coil, but I'd guess not to worry.

I do not have one of those. I am beginning to think that this slug may not be a good replacement after further examination. It will thread fine into the coil, but once the threads reach the area where the coil winding is located, it starts to get pretty hard to turn with any plastic alignment tool. I'd rather have a hex keyed one anyways, but the slot was worth a try. I checked every extra chassis I have and parts piles and still can't find anything identical to the original. Searching online yields no good results on replacements either. Really at a loss right now. Someone has to have one right?

If you have a longer hex coil you could cut it down to match. I have a couple of convergence boards I keep for spare rheostats and slugs and have cut down slugs from them before. A dremel with a one of those thin cutoff wheels works well for cutting slugs down.

That's my problem. All the hex slugs I found were too short.. If you have a few spare slugs on any of your convergence boards that atleast match the thread and diameter let me know if you'd be willing to sell some.