The 30" CROSLEY TV RESTORATION

[ChrisW6ATV]

Nice work, John.

[Sandy G]

Originally Posted by ChrisW6ATV

Nice work, John.

Yeah-This brings up a point-Do WE do a better job re-doing this old stuff than when it was originally made ? I know in certain cases, we have better components-eg capacitors-now than they did "Back then", but I'd argue that we put an extra value of "Love" into these old sets that wasn't there when they were made.

[N2IXK]

Originally Posted by Sandy G

Yeah-This brings up a point-Do WE do a better job re-doing this old stuff than when it was originally made ? I know in certain cases, we have better components-eg capacitors-now than they did "Back then", but I'd argue that we put an extra value of "Love" into these old sets that wasn't there when they were made.

No doubt about that. When restoring or even simply repairing a set, we have the luxury of taking as much time as we want to make sure that things are done "right". This simply wasn't possible for production workers on an assembly line.

We can also choose to use better quality parts than the original manufacturer did. This covers cases where either the technology has vastly improved (capacitors), or where the original design cut corners to save money (higher wattage resistors to replace ones which have overheated and drifted).

[cwmoser]

In addition we have some history and knowledge about the pros and cons of the TV and can try to correct some issues.

Carl

[ohohyodafarted]

Nice work John! Wish I could have spent a couple days with you last week. Has the cabinet came back from the refinisher?

[John Folsom]

Bob, I am still waiting on the Admiral 21" color and Airline 7" TV cabinets to come back.

Chuck A will be by this weekend, and I plan to try and swap out the Crosley CRT and power it up for the first time.

[holmesuser01]

So exciting watching a 60 year old piece of electronics coming back to life after a long long slumber!

The first plug-in after capacitor replacements is always a feeling of anticipation to me.

[Sandy G]

Originally Posted by John Folsom

Bob, I am still waiting on the Admiral 21" color and Airline 7" TV cabinets to come back.

Chuck A will be by this weekend, and I plan to try and swap out the Crosley CRT and power it up for the first time.

PUH-LEEZE Be Careful !! You guys really oughta have me down there, wringin' my hands & worryin' for you...

[mpatoray]

As to weather we improve things or not.

I feel there are several factors where we can "improve" things when restoring/repairing these old sets.

Higher quality components, for Korean War Era 1950-1953 sets, wartime restrictions caused some components most notably resistors to be of lower quality, today's resistors are of MUCH higher quality if we chose good ones.

Capacitor tech has improved greatly in lets say the last 80 years (going back to 20-30's AC radios here) not only are they MUCH more stable and reliable and also take up MUCH less room, making subsequent repairs easier because of the extra space.

TSB's In many cases we have access to not only schematics through Sams and Riders but we also have Technical Service Bulletins (to use a GM term) from the maker to implement production changes and improvements.

Enhancements, we also have the opportunity to add things to earlier or less expensive sets that where never designed in them in the first place DC restoration is an example, and possibly extending video bandwidth on sets such as the post 1954 RCA B&W ones that had a 2.8 mHz bandwidth. Or even crazier stuff like direct AV drive or even component inputs!

Oh and lets not forget the biggest thing REVERSING BAD and BUTCHERED repairs!

All in all I think we make these wonderful sets even better.

Matt

[cbenham]

Originally Posted by Sandy G

Yeah-This brings up a point-Do WE do a better job re-doing this old stuff than when it was originally made ? I know in certain cases, we have better components-eg capacitors-now than they did "Back then", but I'd argue that we put an extra value of "Love" into these old sets that wasn't there when they were made.

The old sets we love to work on and devote much time to were manufactured on an assembly line, so the faster they were turned out the more money the mfgr. made. I doubt the old sets were assembled, tested and boxed in more than a few hours--may be far less, so there was no love for these sets at the factory, only for the bottom line.

The Cliff, who spent the weekend repairing and now listening to a 70 year old Philco console radio that was my dad's. It looks like a friendly fireplace in a dark room.

[mpatoray]

Cliff,

Do I see PreWar FM on that set?

Matt

[Einar72]

Originally Posted by cbenham

The old sets we love to work on and devote much time to were manufactured on an assembly line, so the faster they were turned out the more money the mfgr. made. I doubt the old sets were assembled, tested and boxed in more than a few hours--may be far less, so there was no love for these sets at the factory, only for the bottom line.

I think you have to separate the management from the the rest of the team before making such a broad-brush comment about ALL of us production workers. Managers cranked the production numbers as high as the workers could bear sometimes, but there were, and still are people who are proud to put their name on their work. Don't you take pride in your work? When I was a biomedical mfg. tech, I had to get it right, lest someone cash in their chips while being monitored or defibrillated by something I said was okay to ship.

Even some company founders had a customer-comes-first attitude. Find a copy of A First-Class Job about the life of Frank Murphy (of Murphy Radio in the U.K.) and see why his company's products are so revered among collectors. Not every manager in an expensive suit bowed to stockholder or Wall Street pressure, and tin-plate ladder-climbers often had strong union pushback when their blind ambition made life unbearable for the line workers.

And as far as better parts available, I feel the poly-film-dielectric capacitor was a great replacement for the paper-in-oil caps of the early 20th century. Precise resistors are readily available and cheap nowadays, but the ones available back then usually lasted a long time, and I prefer the look of a shiny A-B or Ohmite to those pale, ugly dog-bones you get off the boat.

And noone has been able to explain on here why I need low-ESR caps when the original versions perform just fine. Just sayin'...

[Tom Albrecht]

Just to follow up on the idea of sealing a CRT leak with caulk --

NO polymeric material is a good long term vacuum seal. Every plastic or rubbery material known has a finite permeability to gasses, including the constituents of air like nitrogen, oxygen, and water vapor. You can't even keep humidity out of enclosure with a polymeric mareial, let alone keep a high vacuum over time.

For a good vacuum seal, you need to use metal, glass, or ceramic. There is a reason why you never see any other materials used on something that needs to hold a high vacuum over extended periods of time.

[M3-SRT8]

Originally Posted by Tom Albrecht

Just to follow up on the idea of sealing a CRT leak with caulk --

NO polymeric material is a good long term vacuum seal. Every plastic or rubbery material known has a finite permeability to gasses, including the constituents of air like nitrogen, oxygen, and water vapor. You can't even keep humidity out of enclosure with a polymeric mareial, let alone keep a high vacuum over time.

For a good vacuum seal, you need to use metal, glass, or ceramic. There is a reason why you never see any other materials used on something that needs to hold a high vacuum over extended periods of time.

Yeah, that was my brain-child. I thought a high grade clear silicone bead was air tight, and that it would be held in place, or not disturbed, by vacuum pressure drawing it tight to the seam, if and when a leak did transpire.

I know about their shortcomings in the automotive world, but that involves OUTWARD pressure, not inward.

[Phil Nelson]

When I restored my RCA CT-100, I applied a product called Vacseal to the 15GP22 perimeter joint, thinking that it might help and it couldn't hurt. I believe John and Bob G. may also have experimented with applying Vacseal and curing in a heat box around that time.

They have done a lot of investigation since that time, and I believe the current thinking is, as Tom says, that you need something like glass or metal. The only proven method is frit glass. The RACS company in France did a frit glass seal on a 15GP22 some time ago, and the last I heard, it was still holding up at the ETF. My 15GP22s are still holding up, too, but that proves nothing, since they didn't leak before I applied the Vacseal.

Phil Nelson