DTV transition "Soft test" on 11-20-08 in Chicago

[ChrisW6ATV]

Unfortunately, despite all of the TV stations and extra digital channels here in the San Francisco Bay Area, we do not have Retro TV. It sounds like a good channel, kind of like TV Land (is or was; I have not had pay satellite TV for nearly three years) but for free?

We do not get thunderstorms here, so I do not know how my digital reception might be affected, but I do have a question: It seems that the people most at risk in severe weather (I am thinking of tornadoes in particular) are those most likely to be in rural/outlying/spread-out areas, who therefore probably also need large and/or tall TV antenna installations if they do not have cable TV (unless they have satellite TV, the limitations of which are a whole other, unrelated, subject). Those tall antennas in spread-out areas are also the most likely to attract lightning strikes, I am sure. If I remember from my days living in the Midwest, wasn't it safest to always disconnect any outdoor antenna cables from your equipment during storms to protect it? How are people then trying to watch TV under such conditions? (Are they tuning in weak, snowy pictures on rabbit-ear-type antennas?) To keep watching a TV connected to a large outdoor antenna during an electrical storm, with a lightning-arrestor system or not, seems very dangerous (to the viewer(s) as well as to any connected equipment).

[bgadow]

All my life, until about 5 years ago, I lived with outdoor antennas that were never unhooked in a storm. Never had a problem, but I know folks who did. Luck of the draw. Where I lived there were usually some tall trees nearby so that might have helped. There is something to be said for a very snowy but watchable picture. Here in my office I keep a 40 year old 12" bw set with just a UHF loop on the back. The reception isn't great, but when something big is happening (9-11 being the best example) it is more than good enough. I've reserved a converter box for here-I'm curious to see if anything will come in.
(analog tv has an impossibly low entrance fee. This old Philco-Ford cost me $2 back in the mid-90s.)

Regarding radio during storms: it can be a little iffy. The local stations have either no local news department at all, or just a minimal one. The only one nearby that makes an effort bascially just reads local AP reports (sounds like they are reading the headlines from the daily paper) and they run the same news all day without updates. Many times I have tuned in because of severe weather or a bad wreck on the highway or whatever, and instead of live, on-the-spot reporting of the impending catastrophe, they are playing Brittany Spears. Big help that's doing! The Baltimore/Washington stations are a lot better but are so far away that they wouldn't report something for this area unless it was a nuclear explosion. Meanwhile, the better of the 2 local TV stations does an outstanding job of covering breaking news and weather.

[peverett]

I lived in a rural area of Oklahoma until I went to college 30+years ago. Even then and at that long distance from the transmitter(70 miles) weather information was useful and receivable via an outside antenna. As bgadow indicates, we never disconnected the antenna. I only know of one instance where lightning struck a persons outside antenna(caused the tuner tubes to explode-but no fire). Of course all people have storm cellars there and get in them when extremely near. For some reason basements are not common there(or here in Texas).

Like bgadow, I find commercial radio to be useless in severe weather. The weather radio is a good concept(although I do not think it could ever replace TV) if it has been executed correctly. The problem is(at least with mine) that it alarms for both watches and warnings. You cannot change that-I asked the manufacturer. If you want to go to sleep during a watch(nothing in the area yet) you turn the alarm to silent and then you may sleep through an actual warning. You cannot seperate the two.

My mother still lives in rural Oklahoma area. She did have an outside antenna, but she has large trees near her house and the antenna and tree limbs collided during some windy days. We need to get her another one.

The area my mother lives in is on top of an old oil field and I do know of a few times lighting struck the oil storage tanks, but that is another story.

[zenithfan1]

In SE Wi they are going to do the "soft test" on Fox 6 Sept. 15 at 5:15. I am really dreading this analog shutdown. I plan to record the test and when they finally kill off the wonders of analog so I can show my kids what tv used to be like and for old times sake

[NowhereMan 1966]

The soft test here in Pittsburgh is November 17th, 2008 at 6:25 PM

[zenithfan1]

Well, the test is today in my area, It starts at 5:10 not 15. We'll see what it's all about, it's gonna look weird seeing channels I watched all my life go to static..... sad.

[Jeffhs]

I am not sure when the DTV soft test will be here in northeastern Ohio, or if it has already been conducted and I missed it.

DTV on cable may be more reliable than DTV over an antenna (OTA), but reception can still run into trouble on cable in bad weather. Case in point: I was watching a football game yesterday evening during very windy weather (my lights went out several times earlier in the day). Several times, the picture simply froze on the screen for a very short period of time (less than a minute) and I saw some pixelization as well. I no longer have a digital cable box (returned it to the cable company last Saturday when I downgraded to expanded basic, channels 2 through 99), but the entire cable system (I have Time Warner cable service) has been converted to 100-percent digital (every subscriber gets digital signals regardless of whether he or she has digital cable), so I'm probably getting a converted (at the cable system headend) ATSC signal on my 19" RCA CTC185. One thing has me puzzled, though. I was watching the football game I mentioned above (Browns/Steelers) yesterday with a friend of mine who lives in a Cleveland suburb, and I was amazed that he could tell me what was going to be shown about two seconds before the same picture appeared on my set; that is, the picture appeared on his TV first (when he told me what was on), then showed on mine an instant later. We both have the same cable company (Time Warner). How on earth was or is it possible for the same picture to be delayed by only a second or two between TV sets in two different areas? I live in an area of Lake County, Ohio, some 35 miles east of Cleveland; my friend lives in a Cleveland suburb which is only about eight miles east of downtown.

I'm baffled. What on earth could cause a short delay as I just described on two TVs in areas 30+ miles apart, on the same cable system? My friend has a 25" RCA Guide Plus+ TV; my CTC185, as I mentioned, is basically the same set (without Guide Plus+) but with a 19" CRT.

[andy]

It all depends on how many steps the signal has been through. Every time the signal is converted between digital and analog, it adds a second or two. Satellites also add a few seconds of delay.

[bgadow]

I was listening to CSPAN radio tonight and they had an FCC commissioner discussing the Wilmington test. The only problem he talked about had to do with people not buying boxes yet, and a major shortage in local stores. Also issues with people who bought the box but hadn't hooked it up yet, or couldn't figure out how to hook it up. He didn't mention any reception issues. The reporter brought up the fact that some stations may not renew their agreements with cable companies after the switchover, and that in some cases the super bowl would only be available over the air.

I have noticed some improvement in digital reception in recent weeks, but then it could just be sunspots or whatever. I turned the tv on late Saturday night and analog was hot, with some stations I hadn't seen in awhile. I should have hooked up the converter box but I was getting tired. Tomorrow night I'm going to do another experiment. A group I belong to wants to watch a tv show in our temporary headquarters-no tv hookups. I'm going to carry a GE 'AB', my best rabbit ears, and a convertor box. I know that I can get an analog signal there but it likely won't be good enough for anyone but me. But if I can get a strong digital signal I will really be impressed. Then I'll drag in a big set for the event.

[peverett]

As Andy indicates stages of conversion add delay. If I have an analog and DTV converter set to the local NBC station here, the DTV version is at least 1second later than the analog.

In addtion, I have seen two DTV converters delay the signal differently. The delay is fairly small, causing an echo effect in the sound from the TVs attached to them.

[Jeffhs]

Originally Posted by ChrisW6ATV

I will not miss analog TV at all when it goes away in February. Nothing about it, zilch, zip. Nada. Digital is so much more stable and smooth, with more channels, has higher quality (not even to mention HDTV which makes SD analog really look like garbage by comparison). And, all this is on the same antennas I have used for analog TV, though I use a smaller antenna now for my all-digital reception. I started watching digital TV in 2000 and have not watched anything analog (except to test my antique TV sets) in probably six years.

But... This forum is so full of people who whine and moan and groan about digital TV and nit-pick and concentrate on its relatively few drawbacks. Maybe I am in the wrong place.

I am looking forward to the DTV transition, even though I do not yet have an HD flat-panel TV. The cable system serving my area is Time Warner, which has converted all its systems to 100-percent digital. Even though I no longer have digital cable (returned the box to TW last Saturday and downgraded to expanded basic, channels 2 through 99), I must still be getting remodulated signals (from digital to analog) on the service as I can still get every channel on TW's expanded-basic tier, with no problems. The only difficulty I've had so far (not counting when my area's cable service was first converted to digital earlier this year, when I noticed severe freezeups and pixelization on several occasions, the most notable of which, for me anyway, was when I was watching NBC news one evening very shortly after the conversion of our area's system had been completed) was during a football game last Sunday, during very windy weather here in northeastern Ohio. The picture froze on the screen for a very brief period (only a second or two--the only reason I noticed it was I was concentrating on the game so intensely) and also slight pixelization. Other than that, however, the picture was solid, steady, just what I expect from cable. In fact, since Time Warner converted its northern Ohio/northwestern Pennsylvania systems to full digital, I swear the picture on every channel (including all eight local broadcast channels) is sharper and clearer than it was when the service was all analog. Believe me, the difference can be noticed on an analog set.

BTW, you mentioned in a previous post that you do not have thunderstorms in your area of California. I find that difficult to believe. I would think that, as warm and downright hot as it can be in most parts of your state, you would get storms off and on all summer long. Hmmm.

[ChrisW6ATV]

Jeff, I agree that a digital signal converted to analog locally can look very good. This past weekend, I finally hooked up one of the $20 (after coupon) "Zenith" ATSC tuners with its Channel 3 output to my RCA CTC-16 color console, and the picture is fantastic, within the limitations of a CRT-based display. Great colors with no noise, and no ghosts of course. The other stunning result I got is that the box tuned in every local digital channel, with a set of 1960's rabbit ears! I only had maybe two channels where I had to rotate the antenna base perhaps 45 degrees to make the signal solid. I live about halfway between San Francisco and San Jose, across S.F. Bay so I am perhaps 25-30 miles from the stations in either city, but they all came in. The coolest part is that I don't even know for sure if the antenna is even intended for UHF reception (location of all but one of my digital channels). The antenna has only one 300-ohm ribbon cable and all the ones I knew for sure were made for VHF and UHF have had two separate cables.

Regarding thunderstorms... Some parts of California, like the mountainous east half of the state, get dry lightning storms that often cause bad forest fires; there were some bad ones in early summer. The coast parts of the state, at least the middle and southern parts, only get lightning along with rain, occasionally (maybe once or twice per year in any given area), in the winter. Most of California gets essentially no rain at all between April and October. Once the rainy season begins, though, sometimes it seems we get rain every day for a month, though.

[peverett]

As I have in-laws in California, I have been there several times. CA(and some other parts of the west) are probably the most ideal places for DTV reception. The only wind out there is the Santa Anna in the fall. In addition, the largest danger from California "winter storms" is mudslides(unless you are in the Sierras). This is not at all representative of weather east of the rockies.

East of the rockies, you have thunderstorms that bring down airliners(Dallas, mid 1980s), spawn tornados that damage high rise buildings beyond repair(Fort Worth) and you have hurricanes that that actually cause damage-not just let surfers have a good time. In addition to the storms, some areas have consistantly high winds(compare a wind energy map of Texas vs CA sometime). These are the conditions that give DTV hell. I have seen it crap out several times here when only mildly turbulant weather was occuring-analog continuing on, snowy, but useable.

I am not saying that California does not have its dangers(earthquakes and fires come to mind)-but with the execption of the Santa Anna wind, these either have no affect on DTV reception or having TV reception makes no difference in the outcome(earthquakes).

[ChrisW6ATV]

Originally Posted by peverett

East of the rockies... you have hurricanes that that actually cause damage-not just let surfers have a good time.

[ARguy]

I too live in S.E. Wisconsin and dread the changeover. My cell phones had to be changed from analog to digital about a year ago and the reception got worse not better. I have more drop outs and a hard time hearing the caller...same company just different service. If the TV change is going to be like the cell phone service it won't be a better thing in my opinion. By the way, the Zenith DTT901 box is easy to set up and use and I would recommend it. The Magnavox that Walmart sells isn't even close and doesn't tune in as well or have a better remote.