WHY so few "other brands' left out there?( Admiral, Sylvania , Philco, etc)

[TVTim]

Originally Posted by Jon A.

Same here, and on top of that I haven't been around long enough to see that many of the older Sony sets. I'm just going by what I read here, such as a mere slap killing a newly-repaired Sony.

Count me in too Jon. When I was in my late teens, the closest I got to TV repair was pulling out tubes and checking them at Radio Shack. My dad was more adventurous. He changed out picture tubes too.

[Jon A.]

Originally Posted by TVTim

Count me in too Jon. When I was in my late teens, the closest I got to TV repair was pulling out tubes and checking them at Radio Shack. My dad was more adventurous. He changed out picture tubes too.

The only TV repair I did in my youth didn't even involve troubleshooting. I found a joint for a vertical transistor that was completely devoid of solder. I took apart many TVs and monitors back then with no attempt to discharge any residual HV. It was a wonder I didn't get zapped, not by anything with a CRT anyway. I got 110/120 mains voltage on a challenge from the super at my old building. The line was spliced to the radio from a motel TV he had just scrapped. I grabbed one bare wire... nothing. I grabbed the other one... again, nothing. He then told me to grab both of them at once. Well, I haven't done such a thing since. He could hold onto live mains wires no problem.

[jbattles]

when a sony from lets say 78 - 90 came in to my shop they were worn out, but every once a while you a good one not worn out.

[rca2000]

Originally Posted by jbattles

when a sony from lets say 78 - 90 came in to my shop they were worn out, but every once a while you a good one not worn out.

Sounds like the 91-98 Zenith tubes. Once in a GREAT while...you find a good one still to this day.


I tend to be one of the "majority" here--and have repaired many Sony sets--often for someone who had "tried and failed". I concede that the tube has a picture like no other set did...WHEN they worked. But by NOW_-those GCS sets are a TIME BOMB--just WAITING to send some poor tech into fits trying to fix one today !! And NO ONE here can dispute how TERRIBLE that 26 inch Sony tube was. A GREAT picture for a FEW years. I doubt one could exceed 10K hours from one...and they will NOT rejuv !!

and I TOO had to repair a lot of the somewhat newer Sony sets where someone had changed the H-out and inverter transistors (C_4834's, or that MX081 chip) But who did NOT bother to check the drive connections and BAM--ALL of it quickly vaporized. THAT point is where I would usually come in...and fix it RIGHT.

[andy]

...

[jr_tech]

Originally Posted by andy

That's a little unfair to Sony. Those Zenith tubes were just plain defective (like the 26" Sony). They would fail before the set got much use. Most of the worn out Sonys had a lot of hours on them.

Anybody here know what caused the problem with the 26" Sony tubes? ... were the 26" jugs perhaps among the first that were not made in the Japanese facility? It would make sense for the very heavy 26" console to be assembled in the San Diego facility, perhaps the 26" tubes represent the start up of non Japanese CRT production.

jr

[jbattles]

I had a 96 model Sony 32' I forget the model no, but I bought it from the thrift store in 2002 fixed some joints used it until my sister law needed it in 2007. Then her family wore it out tube was no good. I have a 2007 Sony 27fds120 awesome picture digital tuner built in I use it every day paid 20 bucks from goodwill back in December plus I have a parts set that some one dropped and crt is messed up it. now I will find them watch when and they tear up scrap them.

[Electronic M]

IIRC cathode requirements of larger CRTs are more stringent. I think it has something to due with current per square inch to achieve a certain brightness... If they used the same guns that were in the original 12" in all sizes up until that point I can see those guns probably being decent in a 19" set, but 26" could have been a bridge too far that required a cathode emisive surface redesign that was unforeseen.

[Jon A.]

Come to think of it, I had a spark jump to my finger when reaching for a piece of dangling glass after cutting the evac stem on a dying Hitachi CRT. The TV had been on recently and I didn't yet have my probe. It wasn't a full-on jolt, but it was enough to make me yank my hand back mighty fast.

[etype2]

Been thinking about it. As said before, I purchased the very first Sony models starting in 1969 like the KV 7010UA, KV 1210U, KV 1720U, KV 1722U, KV 4000, KV 8100, KV 5300. They all worked like a charm with strong performance to this day.

Then got deverted away from CRT televisions and started buying projection televisions like the Advent 710, Kloss Nova Beam 10 foot projection, rear projection sets from Pioneer, then a 40 inch Mitubishi CRT, then a RCA 38 inch 16x 9 HD CRT TV, then returned to Sony with the KD 34XBR960, finally, Pioneer Plasma, and three LCD sets.

Possibly from the reports here, Sony quality dropped off in the 90's. I can't speak to that because of lack of purchase and ownership. The very early Sony sets just last and last for me as you saw from my screenshots. I also purchased many good working Sony sets on eBay. My Sony KD 34XBR960 is still solid with no problems. Love that set.

[rca2000]

Originally Posted by etype2

Been thinking about it. As said before, I purchased the very first Sony models starting in 1969 like the KV 7010UA, KV 1210U, KV 1710U, KV 1722U, KV 4000, KV 8100, KV 5300. They all worked like a charm with strong performance to this day.

Then got deverted away from CRT televisions and started buying projection televisions like the Advent 710, Kloss Nova Beam 10 foot projection, rear projection sets from Pioneer, then a 40 inch Mitubishi CRT, then a RCA 38 inch 16x 9 HD CRT TV, then returned to Sony with the KD 34XBR960, finally, Pioneer Plasma, and three LCD sets.

Possibly from the reports here, Sony quality dropped off in the 90's. I can't speak to that because of lack of purchase and ownership. The very early Sony sets just last and last for me as you saw from my screenshots. I also purchased many good working Sony sets on eBay. My Sony KD 34XBR960 is still solid with no problems. Love that set.

IF you can move it without a crane or forklift !!

[ChrisW6ATV]

I am an odd combination here: A TV technician (for over 30 years so far) who has repaired hundreds of Sony sets (monitors, actually), and who would still to this day never buy anything BUT a Sony for a new CRT display (if we even still could do so!).

Trinitron CRTs just plain beat everything else by a mile, in all of the years I ever compared color CRT displays, from 1979 when I bought my first, through the 2000s when I liked the widescreen HD Sony sets but had moved on to rear-projection sets (which were also Sony CRT sets).

Back to the original subject of this topic, more or less: When Sylvania was advertising their "Supersets" and claiming they beat all others-including Sony-in comparisons, I never did go and see how those sets really did look. Are there very many "Supersets" still around, compared to the number of Sony sets still in existence? Do any of you have opinions on their quality at the time?

[jstout66]

I remember the ad, which I LOVED. "Ahhhh Sylvania beat Sony AGAIN?"
I DO have story when they were new. In the 79-81 time period, we sold Philco, which was a rebadged Sylvania. We were a Zenith dealer, and had to carry a secondary brand so as not to lose a sale (Zenith's were about the most expensive set at the time). We had carried a few other secondary brands over the years, and we would not fire them up next to a Zenith, because the Zenith picture would make the set look like crap, no matter how well adjusted it was. When we got those rebadged Sylvania's we discovered NOT to fire em up side by side, because that was the only set I ever saw that WOULD look as good, if not better than a CC2. It's because like the Sylvania's, they used that dark faced tube. However, as most have us have discovered, that tube was NOT long lasting. It averaged about a 5 year life span. A Trinitron tube you could get about 10 years. There are exceptions to the above, and I think people bag on Sony ( me included) because for the premium price you paid, one would think the tube would have lasted longer, but I agree with you somewhat... a Sony of that era out of the box looked fantastic, but I don't think the picture was any better than a Zenith Chromacolor out of the box.

[zeno]

Originally Posted by jstout66

I remember the ad, which I LOVED. "Ahhhh Sylvania beat Sony AGAIN?"
I DO have story when they were new. In the 79-81 time period, we sold Philco, which was a rebadged Sylvania. We were a Zenith dealer, and had to carry a secondary brand so as not to lose a sale (Zenith's were about the most expensive set at the time). We had carried a few other secondary brands over the years, and we would not fire them up next to a Zenith, because the Zenith picture would make the set look like crap, no matter how well adjusted it was. When we got those rebadged Sylvania's we discovered NOT to fire em up side by side, because that was the only set I ever saw that WOULD look as good, if not better than a CC2. It's because like the Sylvania's, they used that dark faced tube. However, as most have us have discovered, that tube was NOT long lasting. It averaged about a 5 year life span. A Trinitron tube you could get about 10 years. There are exceptions to the above, and I think people bag on Sony ( me included) because for the premium price you paid, one would think the tube would have lasted longer, but I agree with you somewhat... a Sony of that era out of the box looked fantastic, but I don't think the picture was any better than a Zenith Chromacolor out of the box.

I will comment on the GT-Matics then Super Sets. Long time ago
so dont hold me to dates etc.
GT matics were abt 1974. There were 2 chassii a non modular E08 IIRC
& a 3 board job with delta guns for top of line 19" & 25". I believe they
were the first sets with a countdown ckt for hoz & vert thus eliminating
hoz & vert holds. You could get the "Dark Light" CRT in better models
from 13" - 25". The pix could be spectacular, if a scene was black its
WAS BLACK not grey. . Its all in the face coatings & I think how hard they drove them as said. The delta jugs didnt last as long as the in lines on the cheaper sets, I would guess because the deltas were old designs
being run at there limits. All & all a very good set & 10% less
than Zenith & RCA, 20% less than Sony, a break even......
Trade names like System 3, Colortrac, etc went on sets that had a
list of "musts" to get the name. IIRC the Super Set was an updated GT-Matic. It probably "needed" RAT tuning, comb filter, dark-light
CRT etc to earn the name.
As for pix quality its mostly personal taste then actual specs.
I have had folks that hated there new sets pix even though the
old set had a near dead CRT. We would have to back them way off
& make them look crappy.

73 Zeno

[ChrisW6ATV]

Originally Posted by jstout66

I agree with you somewhat... a Sony of that era out of the box looked fantastic, but I don't think the picture was any better than a Zenith Chromacolor out of the box.

I was trying to think of how to describe what I saw that set Sony sets apart from all of the American-brand sets I saw in the late 1970s or early 1980s, including Zeniths, and here it is: Sony sets appeared to have their chassis better matched to their picture tubes, by tightly controlling their available adjustments. If I imagine the full range of a chassis or circuit's ability to drive a CRT, good or not-so-good, then Sony sets had contrast/picture adjustments that could drive their CRTs from, say, 20% to 60% of their maximum output (and they looked good in that full range, time after time). Other brands could be adjusted for 10% to 90% of their CRT's maximum output-but with a CRT and chassis that were only good up to 50% of that output. So, I saw a LOT of American-brand TV sets with over-driven CRTs with out-of-focus highlights, and blooming/poor high-voltage regulation from scene to scene. And again, I saw this over and over again. So, maybe those sets were capable of excellent pictures if adjusted right, but few people (or stores?) seemed to ever do that or to be capable of doing so.