I guess some people still don't get it that analog TV is gone

[roundscreen]

Originally Posted by peverett

Roundscreen, the ad is talking about the FCC proposal to take even more spectrum away from broadcasters and give it to various wireless services. In other words, make us pay for spectrum that is ad-supported and costs the average person nothing at present. The FCC has already done this with 90% of the spectrum obtained via the DTV transition. I, for one, do not appreciate being forced to make companies such as Verizon rich.

See below:
http://broadcastengineering.com/news...221/index.html
http://broadcastengineering.com/news...217/index.html

I have already let one of my representatives know what I think of this and plan to contact the others.

Thank you.
I should have known it was all about the money. Not to mention that they lied about it in the first place when they told us the bandwidth was going to be used for police and fire protection.

[Robert Grant]

Originally Posted by Carmine

Another decade of digital and analog (99-09) at the same time, yet digital just wasn't winning in the marketplace. The equivalent would have been a government decree in 1964 that all broadcasts will be in color, and non-compatible with B&W. Because they didn't, we saw manufacturers forced to make more reliable and less expensive color TVs. Broadcasters felt similar pressure to offer more colorcasts.

There was no "marketplace" for digital to win or lose in.

Consumers were systematically denied the choice of digital tuners until (far too late) they were made mandatory.

[Robert Grant]

Originally Posted by AUdubon5425

I'll say it again - I think it speaks volumes:

I can see the transmitters from my yard - 1 mile away. A good set would pull in an analog color picture without an aerial. Digital breaks up in heavy rain on a set hooked to an outdoor antenna 20 feet in the air.

At least I have strong weather band reception, a great geographical knowledge of the area and even a local radio station that breaks in most of the time. Unfortunately, the majority of America is rural and may not have such assets.

By "digital", do you mean terrestrial (OTA) or satellite.

NO amount or rain (alone, ignoring the wind or lightning that often accompanies it) should affect VHF/UHF reception at all (and, in my own experience, it doesn't).

Last time there was a big winter storm in Detroit, I had satellite. Even though the satellite signal was perfect, and all of the nationwide channels were coming in, all of the Detroit stations were replaced by a slide, stating the local stations were not available, and asking viewers not to call anyone about the problem. As this was going on, I was getting the stations perfectly by OTA DTV. (My guess is that whatever uplink dish sent the Detroit stations to the satellite provider got covered with snow [the literal kind])

[Carmine]

Originally Posted by Robert Grant

There was no "marketplace" for digital to win or lose in.

Consumers were systematically denied the choice of digital tuners until (far to late) they were made mandatory.

High-end, HDTV sets were available for many years with ATSC (digital) tuners. Several people on this forum had them years before the required switch. Why would flagship stations in major markets like LA & NY have been broadcasting a ATSC digital signal for nearly a decade if consumers were "systematically denied" digital tuners?

Now if broadcasters and manufacturers did a poor job making the public aware of the "advantages" of digital TV, that would be their fault... But why bother advertising when Uncle Sam is going to force the market for you?

In other words, if I saw Detroit Dance Party & The Rockford Files were available on channel 38.2 back in 2001, I might have said "Hot damn! I need to get down to Highland Appliance and get me a new-fangled digital TeeVee!"

But I didn't. Because although they did exist (The RCA f-38310 is an example) there was nothing to watch on a digital subchannel, and the dual tuners only came in $5000 TVs! What do you suppose the extra cost of a digital tuner was, at the manufacturer level? Less than $10 for a board and some ICs.

You can bet that sometime in 2008, the lobbyists pulled strings to get that mandate going... "Tell those sheep it will prevent another 9/11 if we get rid of analog TV, yeah, they'll be begging you to do it!"

And we did.

[Robert Grant]

Originally Posted by Carmine

High-end, HDTV sets were available for many years with ATSC (digital) tuners. Several people on this forum had them years before the required switch. Why would flagship stations in major markets like LA & NY have been broadcasting a ATSC digital signal for nearly a decade if consumers were "systematically denied" digital tuners?

Because of an FCC mandate that required broadcasters in major markets to construct and operate DTV facilities early.

They knew that their DTV signals were being watched by no one, but did not want to lose their analog licenses, and with it their network affiliation and cable must-carry status, if they refused to comply.

Originally Posted by Carmine

But I didn't. Because although they did exist (The RCA f-38310 is an example) there was nothing to watch on a digital subchannel, and the dual tuners only came in $5000 TVs! What do you suppose the extra cost of a digital tuner was, at the manufacturer level? Less than $10 for a board and some ICs.

:

Like you said, on very high-end TV sets (likely sold by high-end home theater specialists that did not sell cable or satellite subscriptions).
The big box stores did (and still do) act as agents for subscription TV services, getting a cut for every new customer they sign up. A customer who could have bought a digital tuner with their set had a chance of saying "no thanks" when the salesman pushed a cable or satellite contract.
So the big boxes told the manufacturers "Don't ship us anything with a digital tuner"

Originally Posted by Carmine

You can bet that sometime in 2008, the lobbyists pulled strings to get that mandate going... "Tell those sheep it will prevent another 9/11 if we get rid of analog TV, yeah, they'll be begging you to do it!"

And we did.

Actually, the tuner mandate (47CFR15.117) was actually passed well before 2008 (2005, IIRC), with the largest sets mandated first, then, any device with a TV tuner, including VCRs and DVD recorders, manufactured 3/1/2007 or later, (TV sets still in inventory could be sold after this date. In the case of VCRs, most complied by eliminating the tuner altogether).

[andy]

000

[peverett]

I had an ATSC tuner (not coupon compliant) for at least a year prior to the switch over. Using this tuner, I noticed the cutout issue with DTV when severe weather is near. In one case, DTV cut out for a full 10 minutes with analog NTSC continuing to work fine. Of course, the DTV power levels may have been lower at that time ,but I am only 30 miles from the transmitter and was using a better antenna. We have been in a major drought here, so I have not had an opportunity to see DTV operation in severe weather again. However, as mentioned previously, with rabbit ears, 30 miles from the transmitter, it cuts out for small amounts of time(very irritating) when windy. I have seen this several times.

As to Satellite, I know for a fact that this is pretty much useless in severe weather. I was at my mothers house in rural OK when some severe storms, containing hail, passed over. Satellite reception was useless with the picture freezing repeatedly and no sound. I have also seen her satellite cut out for several minutes in just heavy rain. At present, she does not have an antenna good enough for either analog or DTV reception at 70+ miles from the transmitter. Luckily she does have a weather radio and neighbors with a storm celler.

[NowhereMan 1966]

Originally Posted by Robert Grant

If you don't have an HDTV, then Blu-Ray is of no benefit to you.

You should be aware, however, that Blu-Ray should not obsolete your DVD collection. Currently, all Blu-Ray players will play your existing DVDs just fine (in 480p, or course). IIRC, The patent holders will not license Blu-Ray player production unless DVD compatibility is provided.

I got Blu-Ray player for Christmas, now I have to hook it up to my 1982 Zenith. I know it is hi-def, but as long as I can see the movies in any form, I don't care as long as they are good and entertain me. Heck, I'd use a Blu-Ray on a British 405 line set, if I could, it would not matter as long as the movie is good.

[Jeffhs]

Originally Posted by NowhereMan 1966

I got Blu-Ray player for Christmas, now I have to hook it up to my 1982 Zenith. I know it is hi-def, but as long as I can see the movies in any form, I don't care as long as they are good and entertain me. Heck, I'd use a Blu-Ray on a British 405 line set, if I could, it would not matter as long as the movie is good.

Good to hear from you again. Haven't seen your posts here in quite a while.

I feel the same way you do about DVDs. These and VHS tapes (most are of TV series and some TV movies that were new and popular 25 years ago or more, although I do have some professionally-recorded movies and two Arizona travelogues) are my primary source of TV programming since the networks (especially NBC since Comcast bought them out and even before then, in the GE years) went downhill; I like shows from the 1970s, the decade in which I grew up, and a lot of these programs just aren't shown on cable anymore, so I downgraded my cable to basic (broadcast channels only) a couple of years ago and now use my VCR and DVD player if I want to watch my favorites (I rarely watch broadcast TV anymore these days except for news and the occasional nature show on PBS).

I had to replace my 3-year-old CyberHome DVD player last year when it just quit reading discs, after working like a champ since 2005. Its replacement is a Memorex full-size DVD that works very well with my RCA CTC-185 XL-100 TV. One good thing about the Memorex player (besides having a vacuum-fluorescent time/track/function display on the front panel, which my CH player did not have--the latter only had an on-screen display for those parameters) is that I can use any universal remote control with it (I'm currently using a 4-function GE universal, made by Jasco Products); the CH player would not work with anything other than its own remote.

I'm glad I'm rid of the CH player for another reason: the company went out of business some time ago, so service and parts will be all but impossible to find, if any of these players are still in active use. That's why I put my CH-DVD300S player out for the trash shortly after purchasing the Memorex; however, the latter has worked like a charm for over a year, despite a problem I read about somewhere on the Web (FixYa.com comes to mind). This problem affects recent Memorex full-size DVD players, and has to do with an underrated capacitor that swells and splits open after anywhere from nine months to one year after initial purchase of the player. Mine has been working very well for over a year, as I said, so maybe I got lucky and got a player with a good cap in it that won't cause me any problems. Time will tell.

The only regret I have regarding my purchase of the Memorex DVD player is that it seems to have been built more flimsily than my CyberHome player. The CH player had a metal shell that fit over the top of a metal chassis with screws holding the whole unit together, whereas the Memorex player seems to have a plastic top and rear panel; the front control panel looks flimsy as well. The whole thing is probably plastic and would crack if one were to sneeze on it.

The remote control that came with my Memorex MVD-2042 DVD is about the cheapest-looking wireless remote transmitter I have ever seen. It is much smaller than my GE universal, the buttons are very small, not well identified or backlit (the legends near the buttons are in tiny type that is darn near impossible to read in poor lighting), and the thing runs on an oddball, dime-size watch battery (CR-2025 three-volt lithium) that may or may not be available at this time. If you should ever purchase a Memorex DVD player, I suggest using a universal remote with it, using the original remote only if or when you need to use functions not supported by the latter. The player itself works great and fits in very well with my TV and VCR, but I wouldn't trust that tiny remote any further than I could throw it.

BTW: You're still using that 1982 Zenith System 3 TV you've had I don't know how long, and it still works well? Good for you! That speaks volumes for the quality of Zenith televisions before Goldstar got their hooks into the company and lured them away from Chicago 25 years ago or so. I have a 14-year-old Zenith Sentry 2 19" table model that still works as well as when I got it. It is presently in my bedroom and is in line to replace my RCA CTC185 XL100 when the latter eventually goes belly-up, whenever that may be; the CTC185, now ten years old and in daily use, is like the Energizer battery--it keeps going and going and going . . . The Zenith may not see much more than standby duty (or it may just sit there on my dresser gathering dust) for several more years, the way the RCA is going.

[NowhereMan 1966]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

Good to hear from you again. Haven't seen your posts here in quite a while.

I feel the same way you do about DVDs. These and VHS tapes (most are of TV series and some TV movies that were new and popular 25 years ago or more, although I do have some professionally-recorded movies and two Arizona travelogues) are my primary source of TV programming since the networks (especially NBC since Comcast bought them out and even before then, in the GE years) went downhill; I like shows from the 1970s, the decade in which I grew up, and a lot of these programs just aren't shown on cable anymore, so I downgraded my cable to basic (broadcast channels only) a couple of years ago and now use my VCR and DVD player if I want to watch my favorites (I rarely watch broadcast TV anymore these days except for news and the occasional nature show on PBS).

I had to replace my 3-year-old CyberHome DVD player last year when it just quit reading discs, after working like a champ since 2005. Its replacement is a Memorex full-size DVD that works very well with my RCA CTC-185 XL-100 TV. One good thing about the Memorex player (besides having a vacuum-fluorescent time/track/function display on the front panel, which my CH player did not have--the latter only had an on-screen display for those parameters) is that I can use any universal remote control with it (I'm currently using a 4-function GE universal, made by Jasco Products); the CH player would not work with anything other than its own remote.

I'm glad I'm rid of the CH player for another reason: the company went out of business some time ago, so service and parts will be all but impossible to find, if any of these players are still in active use. That's why I put my CH-DVD300S player out for the trash shortly after purchasing the Memorex; however, the latter has worked like a charm for over a year, despite a problem I read about somewhere on the Web (FixYa.com comes to mind). This problem affects recent Memorex full-size DVD players, and has to do with an underrated capacitor that swells and splits open after anywhere from nine months to one year after initial purchase of the player. Mine has been working very well for over a year, as I said, so maybe I got lucky and got a player with a good cap in it that won't cause me any problems. Time will tell.

The only regret I have regarding my purchase of the Memorex DVD player is that it seems to have been built more flimsily than my CyberHome player. The CH player had a metal shell that fit over the top of a metal chassis with screws holding the whole unit together, whereas the Memorex player seems to have a plastic top and rear panel; the front control panel looks flimsy as well. The whole thing is probably plastic and would crack if one were to sneeze on it.

The remote control that came with my Memorex MVD-2042 DVD is about the cheapest-looking wireless remote transmitter I have ever seen. It is much smaller than my GE universal, the buttons are very small, not well identified or backlit (the legends near the buttons are in tiny type that is darn near impossible to read in poor lighting), and the thing runs on an oddball, dime-size watch battery (CR-2025 three-volt lithium) that may or may not be available at this time. If you should ever purchase a Memorex DVD player, I suggest using a universal remote with it, using the original remote only if or when you need to use functions not supported by the latter. The player itself works great and fits in very well with my TV and VCR, but I wouldn't trust that tiny remote any further than I could throw it.

BTW: You're still using that 1982 Zenith System 3 TV you've had I don't know how long, and it still works well? Good for you! That speaks volumes for the quality of Zenith televisions before Goldstar got their hooks into the company and lured them away from Chicago 25 years ago or so. I have a 14-year-old Zenith Sentry 2 19" table model that still works as well as when I got it. It is presently in my bedroom and is in line to replace my RCA CTC185 XL100 when the latter eventually goes belly-up, whenever that may be; the CTC185, now ten years old and in daily use, is like the Energizer battery--it keeps going and going and going . . . The Zenith may not see much more than standby duty (or it may just sit there on my dresser gathering dust) for several more years, the way the RCA is going.

Yeah, I had to replace my 2003 Toshiba VCR/DVD combo that just died, the DVD died last year, the VCR died a few weeks ago. I might try to salvage the VCR, see if it needs new belts or something since it was easier for Mom to program than the new Magnavox DVD/VCR combo I have now. Now I have this Blu-Ray player, I don't know where to put it exactly, tell you the truth, right now, I need one like a hole in my head although when Blu-Ray becomes more mainstream, I have a way to view them. If the Toshiba was still in use, I'd use it as a replacement DVD player. I also have a DVD player I go from my cousin, it was made in 2004.

1982 Zenith, well sometimes the girl shows her age a little, the screen goes red when she acts up, a heating problem I think but she can go several months or more before it happens again.