Who Actually had the Best Picture?

[zenith2134]

First off, I have firsthand experience with Orion picture tubes from the two sets I owned with them. One was a 1981 Portland, really cheap (rudimentary) for 81, not even having auto color or an electronic tuning scheme. It had a 19 inch Orion tube- I don't recall the number, but that set is still going strong in my aunts basement almost 7 years later. She has it hooked up to a yagi-type rooftop antenna and the pic is actually quite good.

Next I fixed my neighbor's Daewoo 19" set, I would say it was a 1984-5 model, but a very simple design. he says he bought it new and it never gave any trouble until it was hit with a lightning strike. I basically replaced the whole power supply section of the mainboard(it seemed it wheeew) but expected a terrible picture. I saw the set operating around dinner time last thursday. He has it on DTV digital cable and the raster is just as bright and crisp as ever. Maybe Orion has gone downhill now and Toshiba chose them because they are cheaper? Who would have done that back in the 60's-70's....? Eh.

The only piece of ....equipment.... of Rca I own now is a clockradio circa 2004 with blue large Led's. (Gift). The radio makes me ears hurt its so weak and the display is undimmable and buzzes so that no one can sleep near it at night. Gee, i miss my 1978 Colortrak Console!!!!

[andy]

Originally Posted by zenith2134

First off, I have firsthand experience with Orion picture tubes from the two sets I owned with them. One was a 1981 Portland, really cheap (rudimentary) for 81, not even having auto color or an electronic tuning scheme. It had a 19 inch Orion tube- I don't recall the number, but that set is still going strong in my aunts basement almost 7 years later. She has it hooked up to a yagi-type rooftop antenna and the pic is actually quite good.

I know for a fact that some Orion branded CRTs from the 80's were made by Zenith.

[kx250rider]

I associate Orion with the ghastly Emerson sets of the 80s & early 90s. Never gave it any thought though... Maybe the picture was OK on those sets, but I don't recall ever fixing one that stayed fixed, and I don't remember seeing any still in use that were more than 3 or 4 years old.

Charles

[bgadow]

When I was younger & dumberer (ha!) a semi-retired TV repairman sold me a bunch of stuff that included 2 pickup loads of used picture tubes. He saw me coming. At least half of them were Emerson/Orion. This guy did work on LOADS of those sets. I saved those crts for about 10 years before realizing they would never come in handy so out they went-every one of them save for a portacolor crt. The only one I should have saved was a 23V Admiral but it was too heavy for me to lug around so into the dumpster it went, too. (then I found AK & realized it really was okay to save stuff like that-D'oh!)

[andy]

Originally Posted by kx250rider

I associate Orion with the ghastly Emerson sets of the 80s & early 90s. Never gave it any thought though... Maybe the picture was OK on those sets, but I don't recall ever fixing one that stayed fixed, and I don't remember seeing any still in use that were more than 3 or 4 years old.

Charles

And now they make Toshiba!

[waltchan]

Originally Posted by zenith2134

First off, I have firsthand experience with Orion picture tubes from the two sets I owned with them. One was a 1981 Portland, really cheap (rudimentary) for 81, not even having auto color or an electronic tuning scheme. It had a 19 inch Orion tube- I don't recall the number, but that set is still going strong in my aunts basement almost 7 years later. She has it hooked up to a yagi-type rooftop antenna and the pic is actually quite good.

Next I fixed my neighbor's Daewoo 19" set, I would say it was a 1984-5 model, but a very simple design. he says he bought it new and it never gave any trouble until it was hit with a lightning strike. I basically replaced the whole power supply section of the mainboard(it seemed it wheeew) but expected a terrible picture. I saw the set operating around dinner time last thursday. He has it on DTV digital cable and the raster is just as bright and crisp as ever. Maybe Orion has gone downhill now and Toshiba chose them because they are cheaper? Who would have done that back in the 60's-70's....? Eh.

Couple of wrong infos regarding Orion...(I have over five years of experience understanding the Toshiba-Orion connection, so you can believe me, although I don't go to this forum too often.)

Your 1981 Portland TV was actually made by Daewoo with Orion tube that was a Korean firm and owned by Daewoo. This is not the same Orion company found in the TVs that are Made in Thailand today, in fact, they are not owned by each other. Back then, Orion Electric Co. Ltd. Japan produced video products for Emerson and TMK (Toyomenka) in Japan until they moved the entire production to Thailand beginning in 1990. The Orion Electric Co. Ltd. Korea has only made CRT picture tubes for televisions and monitors for Daewoo, Funai, Goldstar, Samsung, Sharp, and Zenith.

If you are talking Toshiba, you must be referring to the Orion Electric Co. Ltd. Japan one. Orion did not go downhill, actually. Orion sold the Emerson brand to Funai in 2000 so they can start expanding their facilities and dream of making products for major brands that they can actually sell in stores. Orion sent an invitation to Toshiba way back in 2001 to try outsourcing to them, and Toshiba agreed to join. So, the first Toshiba products to be made by Orion ever were the CRT TVs sized 27" and smaller, some VCRs, and one DVD/VCR combo (model SD-V280). As time goes on, Toshiba starts to be more satisfied with Orion because off its production performance and low-cost, so Toshiba begins to outsource their products to Orion more. Today, Orion makes ALL of Toshiba-branded CRT tube televisions, LCD televisions sized 23" and under, plasma televisions, and DVD/VCR combos. More than 65% of Toshiba TV/video products sold in the market today are made by Orion. It has been predicted that next year, Orion will be making all of Toshiba televisions (CRT, LCD, and Plasma, but not DLP projection), regardless of what price. So, if you see a TV with a Toshiba brand in store, it is made by Orion. Toshiba is the first and only major brand so far to outsource their entire TV/video production to a third-world supplier, including Orion. Nobody is doing this yet. I wonder how long will Toshiba stay in business before the consumers will know that they are getting Orion-made TVs for the premium price they pay? Just to be clear, Orion is NOT owned by Toshiba. Toshiba is a LOYAL Orion customer who fills out a lot of order forms to them waiting for the products to be made. Orion will soon be the world's most powerful OEM maker and will beat Funai in a couple of years. Because Orion has Toshiba, and Toshiba has kindly asked Orion to hide from the public, Orion was forced to discontinue making all of their own off-branded products (Broksonic, Memorex, Orion and Sansui), and they are no longer available at stores, which means consumers will not be aware of the Orion company anymore. Toshiba still refuses to admit the public that the TVs are made by Orion, and they will always lie to their customers saying that the TVs are still made by Toshiba (give me a break). Don't ever try contacting Toshiba's customer support.

[waltchan]

Originally Posted by andy

I know for a fact that some Orion branded CRTs from the 80's were made by Zenith.

Are you sure? My records tell me that the Orion-branded CRT TVs have always been made by Orion and never by anyone else. Maybe they used Zenith picture tubes back then, although I highly doubt they do, but the TVs were definitely not made by Zenith. The first Orion-branded TVs launched in 1993 in the United States as an exclusive Wal-Mart store brand. It's surprising to see the Orion brand came late to the market, but the Orion company has been around for years.

Unless you are referring to the Zenith TVs with Orion CRTs that were made in Korea or the TV/VCR combo one?

[andy]

Originally Posted by waltchan

Are you sure? My records tell me that the Orion-branded CRT TVs have always been made by Orion and never by anyone else. Maybe they used Zenith picture tubes back then, although I highly doubt they do, but the TVs were definitely not made by Zenith. The first Orion-branded TVs launched in 1993 in the United States as an exclusive Wal-Mart store brand. It's surprising to see the Orion brand came late to the market, but the Orion company has been around for years.

Unless you are referring to the Zenith TVs with Orion CRTs that were made in Korea or the TV/VCR combo one?

The ones I'm thinking of were from the late 80's. The CRTs were branded Orion, but had Zenith's EIA code and a very small Zenith lightning bolt on the label. They also stood out because, unlike most Orion CRTs, they produced an excellent picture.

[waltchan]

Originally Posted by andy

The ones I'm thinking of were from the late 80's. The CRTs were branded Orion, but had Zenith's EIA code and a very small Zenith lightning bolt on the label. They also stood out because, unlike most Orion CRTs, they produced an excellent picture.

Hmmm, maybe that's the Daewoo one, but I don't know. Since you work in a TV repair shop, be prepare to see more and more Toshiba TVs (even high-end ones) coming in for repairs beginning next year. Maybe not now since they are all recent purchases (most are under one year old), but this is the perfect time stocking more Orion parts in your shop. Last thing, never forget the famous Orion service menu procedure "turn volume all the way down to 0, then press 9 on the remote for about two seconds."

[JCFitz]

Originally Posted by kx250rider

I associate Orion with the ghastly Emerson sets of the 80s & early 90s. Never gave it any thought though... Maybe the picture was OK on those sets, but I don't recall ever fixing one that stayed fixed, and I don't remember seeing any still in use that were more than 3 or 4 years old.

Charles

The 25" Emersons of the early 90s were awful. The picture tubes were worse than Zenith and they loved to eat HO transistors and regulator ics when the guns shorted. And the late 80s 19"ones sold by Ames and Roses before Walmart took over loved to eat HO transistors. Lots of bad flybacks but the CRTs were good. Some of them that belonged to the lucky are still going. Usually as a spare tv. All the bad ones are in the landfill by now. I still have tons of carcasses of those sets in my junker chassis. I've thrown quite a few chassis away. Recently a guy was using a 13" from the late 80s as a spare while his big Sony was down. It had a no red and pretty ugly color but I suspect the connections on that little standup board with the AKB circuit on it rather than the CRT. Was pretty common back when they were newer. 13" CRTs of all brands seem to outlast the larger size tubes.

[waltchan]

Originally Posted by JCFitz

The 25" Emersons of the early 90s were awful. The picture tubes were worse than Zenith and they loved to eat HO transistors and regulator ics when the guns shorted. And the late 80s 19"ones sold by Ames and Roses before Walmart took over loved to eat HO transistors. Lots of bad flybacks but the CRTs were good. Some of them that belonged to the lucky are still going. Usually as a spare tv. All the bad ones are in the landfill by now. I still have tons of carcasses of those sets in my junker chassis. I've thrown quite a few chassis away. Recently a guy was using a 13" from the late 80s as a spare while his big Sony was down. It had a no red and pretty ugly color but I suspect the connections on that little standup board with the AKB circuit on it rather than the CRT. Was pretty common back when they were newer. 13" CRTs of all brands seem to outlast the larger size tubes.

Do the new Orion-made Toshiba TVs also have the HO transisters, flyback, and regulator ICs problem, found in the Emerson TVs in the early 90s?

[Jeffhs]

Originally Posted by JCFitz

13" CRTs of all brands seem to outlast the larger size tubes.

I agree. I had two 13" Zenith color sets, 1979 and 1983 vintage respectively, that were still going strong after 20 years, with good pictures. Never had to have anything done to them in the way of repairs, either.

[andy]

Originally Posted by JCFitz

It had a no red and pretty ugly color but I suspect the connections on that little standup board with the AKB circuit on it rather than the CRT. Was pretty common back when they were newer. 13" CRTs of all brands seem to outlast the larger size tubes.

That reminds me that Orion was one of the first companies to use AKB on all their sets. It was a strangely advanced feature for such cheap TVs. At the time, only a hand full of high end sets used AKB and many TVs still lack AKB. I know it can be frustrating when the Sony AKB blanks the picture, but I've never seen one blanking that still had a good picture. AKB maintains correct gray scale for as long as the CRT can manage it.

[andy]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

I agree. I had two 13" Zenith color sets, 1979 and 1983 vintage respectively, that were still going strong after 20 years, with good pictures. Never had to have anything done to them in the way of repairs, either.

I think small CRTs last longer because it requires much lower beam current to produce the same brightness picture as a larger set. Even when the CRT starts to get weak, it can still produce enough current for a small picture.

[JCFitz]

Originally Posted by andy

That reminds me that Orion was one of the first companies to use AKB on all their sets. It was a strangely advanced feature for such cheap TVs. At the time, only a hand full of high end sets used AKB and many TVs still lack AKB. I know it can be frustrating when the Sony AKB blanks the picture, but I've never seen one blanking that still had a good picture. AKB maintains correct gray scale for as long as the CRT can manage it.

My 1985 Zenith Advanced System 3 has it.RCA had it on a couple of chassis around the same time.CTC131 ,132 and 133 had it I think.Then they stopped using it until the the 178 and 179 series of the early to mid 90s.Some RCA projection sets use it.Zenith stopped using it after this chassis for a couple of years.It was used again in the Digital sets they only made a couple of years and then off and on in some chassis.None of the ones with the rotten tubes had AKB.Probably was a good thing.Philips AKB is even worse than Sony.If the G2 control in the flyback drifts or the CRT gets weak the set shuts off.The early XBR Wega flat screen chassis on Sonys would shut down if it detected an AKB error.We replaced a CRT under service contract because of this.The customer didn't seem to notice the lack of green ,just that the set shut down.Had a blue background and the highlights were mostly red. Sony must have eliminated the blanking of the picture as I just went to check a 36" Wega that the green gun was shot and it was still playing with a purple picture.