I miss clicking around the channels with old remotes!

[jr_tech]

Good questions, Jeffhs, I will answer them as best I can.

“I'm curious. How do you know every television station in northeastern Ohio? Are you from the area, or are you from Detroit or Toledo and receiving these stations when the weather is good? If the latter, I'm amazed, as TV DXing ended the day all television went digital almost one year ago. UHF television signals do not travel nearly as far as VHF ones.”

No. I am not from the area, The information mostly comes from the FCC website, individual station sites and wikipedia. I still DX, but agree that it is more difficult... but still fun!

“BTW, putting Cleveland's "CBS 19" on digital channel ten was, IMO, a huge mistake, as there is a Canadian television station on the latter channel, in a city not far from Cleveland. I bet 19's digital channel ten makes a mess of Canada's channel ten, and vice-versa, when the weather is clear. “

Perhaps it is a mess during decent tropo skip, but since one station is analog and the other digital, the interference may not be as bad as if they were both analog.

“And then there's channel 17 in Canton--how on earth can that station operate when channel three in Cleveland uses 17 as its digital channel? I get channel 17 on my cable, but it is some religious station called "WDLI" that has nothing whatsoever to do with channel 3. Channel 2, the channel Cleveland's channel 3 originally used for digital, is now occupied by a station calling itself "WRLM" and which is affiliated with something called the "TCT" network. "

After the Analog shut-down, there is no station in Canton transmitting on Ch 17. WDLI (branded Ch 17, its former channel) transmits its digital signal over the air on Ch 39, but they have a construction permit filed with the FCC to move to Ch 49. (Possibly they have already moved). http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state...&slon2=&size=9

“Sheeeesh. How much more confusing can or will the television channel assignments get in this age of DTV? The TV guide that comes with my Sunday paper has a conversion chart for cable, but it is stuck way in the back of the magazine where most people won't see it. Moreover, this chart does not have conversion information for analog to digital -- for people with converter boxes that show the channels as, for example, 3.1 for channel three. What is that number to the right of the decimal point, anyway, and what does it have to do with the station's regular channel number? That decimal number shows on just about every station in this area except channel five, which for some reason does not use this numbering system. This is why I do not use online TV listing services such as TitanTV, et al. -- they do use this crazy channel numbering system that shows channels I do not get on my cable, which often leaves me baffled. The listing for channel three, for example, shows normal channel 3 programming, most of which is from NBC, at the top of the listing, then underneath there is channel 3.1 which carries a weather radar scan. Channel five does not have a digital listing at this time. I am not sure at all what the other stations carry on their split channels -- or whatever those decimal-point channels are called. Why isn't my cable carrying those other channels? “

These sub channels are one benefit from digital broadcasting, a station, if it wishes, can transmit several programs at once. One station in my area transmits 5 different programs (24.1,24.2,24.3,24.4 and 24.5) but none are in High Definition, another transmits 1 High definition, and 3 low definition channels, another merely uses the digital channel for one HDTV channel. As I understand it the cable companies are not required to carry the sub-channels. In many cases these programs may already have been carried on your cable somewhere else.

“Another thing I cannot figure out is why, if the TV stations all operate on digital channels that are completely different from their regular numbers (e. g. 3 on 2, 17, 39 or whatever), channels 3, 5, 8 and 23 on my cable do come in on those numbers? “

The cable company has the capability of placing any channel wherever it chooses. It appears that in the case of some of the major channels in your area the cable company placed them according to their traditional or “branded” channel numbers.

“Oh, how I wish the FCC had left the old, reliable NTSC analog TV system alone. The DTV transition has caused more confusion and problems than it has solved. “

You are not alone in this feeling, but many people enjoy the benefits of a truly spectacular 16:9 high definition picture, and also the extra sub-channels.

"The FCC, IMHO, should have made DTV compatible with standard televisions the same way NTSC color TV was compatible with black and white (backward compatible or whatever the term is). Why the agency decided on a DTV standard that forces people to buy converter boxes, cable or satellite service, or a new television, when the old analog set was and still is working perfectly well, is way beyond me."

The requirements for High definition broadcasting simply could not be met with the existing analog system. A different approach was necessary.

"II understand the digital TV signals are somehow converted to NTSC for subscribers with standard TVs--how is that done?) and the pictures are every bit as good, IMO, as a good photograph, thanks to the new DTV standard. My TV reception was always very clear in analog, but I swear it is clearer now in digital than it ever was. "

The conversion at the “head end” of the cable system is similar to that of one of the small $40 DTV converter boxes that you might purchase.

“I am an amateur radio operator (my callsign appears after my signature) and should understand this DTV stuff, but I don't. The reason is that I do not adjust to change very well. I was against the DTV transition almost from the moment it was announced, and for the longest time I did not believe it would ever happen. When June 12, 2009 finally arrived, I was amazed at the horror stories I was reading (and still read from time to time) on the Internet and elsewhere concerning DTV OTA reception problems; these were mostly from people who were still using antennas, and would not pay for cable or a converter box. Many folks were confused by having to "rescan" their boxes when local TV stations changed channels from VHF to UHF or, in at least one case (New York or Philadelphia, IIRC), vice-versa. (Cleveland still has one station -- CBS 19 -- that is now telecasting in DTV over channel 10, while most of the rest of the stations in the area have moved to UHF.)"

Relax, many are confused over this transition. The channel jumping was the result of the necessity that TV stations had to transmit both digital and analog signals during the transition period. I must have been quite a chore for the FCC to “double up” on channel allocations to allow this. When the time came to shut off the Analog channels, each station had a choice of staying on its digital channel assignment or moving its Digital transmission to its old analog channel. High band VHF channel transmitters consume less power than those for UHF channels, so in many cases, High band channels were chosen, to save money. There was also some "horse trading" among broadcasters... in my area, for example, an analog Ch 49 transmitted digital on Ch 48 during the transition but ended up on Ch 30 after the analog shut-down. Viewers had to rescan their Digital converter boxes to detect the changes after analog shut-down. Many Broadcasters that chose High Band VHF were somewhat surprised that the coverage that they obtained was not as good as they had on UHF, Many have applied to the FCC to increase power or move again to UHF! Low band VHF channels appear to be somewhat undesirable for Digital transmission, but there are a few in use.

hope this helps,
jr

[Jeffhs]

jr_tech --

Yes, it has helped -- a lot. Thanks for answering my questions -- it makes it somewhat easier now for me to make sense of the new US DTV standard, and the problems many stations had or are still having regarding channel shifts, power increases and the like. Very interesting reading. I printed out your reply for future reference.

BTW, if you don't mind mentioning it here, what area are you from? Anywhere even close to Cleveland or Akron-Canton-Youngstown? I live in the small Lake County, Ohio village of Fairport Harbor in northeastern Ohio, 35 miles east of downtown Cleveland, within one mile (more or less) of the southern shore of Lake Erie. I am originally from and grew up in Wickliffe, an eastern suburb of Cleveland located 16 miles east of downtown. I moved to my present location ten and a half years ago; as I said in my post, my TV reception (analog) was fair to poor on most stations but one (CBS 19), so I had to get cable to get anywhere near the good TV reception I had when I lived in Wickliffe. It's ironic because, while my analog OTA TV reception here was awful (digital OTA is probably even worse), my FM radio reception on every one of my radios, including three vintage sets, is excellent, just using indoor antennas. Hmmm.

[jr_tech]

" I live in the small Lake County, Ohio village of Fairport Harbor in northeastern Ohio, 35 miles east of downtown Cleveland, within one mile (more or less) of the southern shore of Lake Erie."

Nice! I am also fairly close to a large body of water, about an hour from the Pacific Ocean

Got a little more info on the Ch 10 situation...it appears that when WOIO gets up to full power, its directional antenna will somewhat limit coverage to the north, protecting the Canadian station.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DT1250972.html

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=39746

Also, if the Ch 10 station in Canada that you are concerned about is CFPL in London, they will not be running very much power after they convert to digital:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=179801

It appears as though they will just do a "flash cut" to digital and stay on Ch 10 (perhaps they already have). They also have an application for more power on Ch 57:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=163449

Difficult to tell what is going on with that station, as the FCC information on Canadian stations is minimal.

jr