What analog stations are still out there?

[AUdubon5425]

I don't have a rotor on my aerial yet, but in New Orleans I am picking up three low-power stations and WWL (4) and WDSU (6) doing twilight duty. Both are running the same film about hooking up a DTV box. Honestly, their explanations are bound to confuse anyone needing help with this.

And such a shame, WDSU is still coming in with a gorgeous picture:

[Adam]

I got that channel 3 in again tonight. This time it had it's call letters up: WKYC 3 out of Cleveland. I turned on channel 2 this afternoon and they varied the looped message about the dtv converters with a different one they recorded themselves.

[compucat]

Out local NBC affiliate (WAVY TV 10) here is still broadcasting analog on channels 23 and 56. I watched NBC Nightly News on my 12" black and white GE last night. Channel 27 is continually broadcasting the DTV upgrade message. Other than that, it's snow on every channel.

[zenithfan1]

Just for the record, there is a severe thunderstorm going on right now(sirens and all) and satellite and DTV are out. The two LOW POWER analog stations are coming in like they always do. As are the "night light" ones.

[Jeffhs]

Originally Posted by Adam

I got that channel 3 in again tonight. This time it had it's call letters up: WKYC 3 out of Cleveland. I turned on channel 2 this afternoon and they varied the looped message about the dtv converters with a different one they recorded themselves.

It's a good thing you saw the channel 3 station in Cleveland last night, as the station will discontinue its nightlight service permanently on the 29th of this month.

[tshoejohn]

Just checked today, I get only stations from Ontario.

[Jeffhs]

Originally Posted by AUdubon5425

I don't have a rotor on my aerial yet, but in New Orleans I am picking up three low-power stations and WWL (4) and WDSU (6) doing twilight duty. Both are running the same film about hooking up a DTV box. Honestly, their explanations are bound to confuse anyone needing help with this.

And such a shame, WDSU is still coming in with a gorgeous picture:

Sheesh! And to think these nightlight messages are supposed to help folks with installing/rescanning their converter boxes, not hopelessly confuse them. I think what happens is that these videos are made by television engineers who forget (or, worse, do not even consider) that most people outside the TV service business (or outside the television industry itself) know little or nothing about how a TV set works or how to connect anything to it, and do not generally even think about the wiring behind their sets. Telling the average person that a DTV converter box converts ATSC signals to NTSC, for example or trying to explain the technical details of connecting a box, will get you nowhere, as the average TV viewer does not know or care what either of those abbreviations stand for or about the technical side of the DTV transition. The information given in the nightlight videos must tell viewers how to connect and use their converter boxes step by step, and in plain English, not TV industry jargon. Most people, for example, are baffled when they find out they cannot receive certain stations in their area after the DTV transition; they think either the box or their TV are out of order. (There are still people out there, yes, even now, one week after the transition, who think their TVs, connected directly to antennas without a converter box, are broken because they can no longer get their local stations.) Telling these folks to "rescan" their converters often doesn't register because, as I mentioned, many non-technical viewers do not get the idea of rescanning, and all the buttons on the remotes included with DTV converters confuse the dickens out of them. Most non-technical people know nothing about their TVs other than how to switch them on and off, change channels, turn the volume up and down, and mute the sound--those other buttons for menus, color controls, etc. on TV remote controls mean absolutely nothing to them. Anything even remotely resembling a "rescan" button on a DTV converter's remote will stop these people dead in their tracks. This sort of thing must not be allowed to occur in this age of digital TV. People want their TV and generally do not know or care about the behind-the-scenes details. The sooner the producers of the video loops or PSAs (the latter probably resembling infomercials, without advertising) on the DTV nightlight stations realize this, the smoother the DTV transition, from the viewer's standpoint, will proceed.

[Jeffhs]

Originally Posted by tshoejohn

Just checked today, I get only stations from Ontario.

At least you'll have something to watch in analog for the next couple of years, since the DTV transition in Canada will not occur until 2012 or '13. CBET-TV 9 (formerly CKLW-TV) in Windsor is a CBC affiliate with excellent programming. I used to see it quite a bit in the summer, before I had cable; I live near Cleveland and can receive most Detroit/Windsor FM stations (and TV, of course), as I am within a mile of the south shore of Lake Erie. Used to like to watch network programming on WDIV (NBC4) in Detroit, as NBC was for many years my favorite TV network. That station, along with all other Detroit television stations, would come in to northeastern Ohio like gangbusters in the summer until early fall, with excellent pictures (sometimes even in color) just using an indoor or built-in antenna on my TVs. Before the advent of the two new TV networks, UPN and The WB (now MyTV and The CW), I liked to watch independent programming on Detroit's channels 20 and 50 when the bands opened up, as these stations often had programming Cleveland's UHFs (channels 43, 55 and 61) didn't have or would not carry for whatever reason.

I have what I call "bare-bones basic" (local channels only) cable service now from Time-Warner (rabbit ears do not work well in my area), and I miss being able to DX the TV channels as I used to before DTV. I suppose I could try DXing the Detroit/Windsor stations on my analog sets with rabbit ears, but the all-or-nothing nature of DTV (either you get a picture or you don't, no in-between as it used to be with analog) will pose a heck of a challenge for today's TV DX enthusiasts, and may not be possible at all with indoor antennas.

It is possible, however, to DX the "nightlight" analog stations--at least for now. These stations are permitted to operate for 30 days at most, then they will leave the air forever, never to return. For example, the "nightlight" station in Cleveland is WKYC 3. However, the station will discontinue nightlight service on Friday, June 26 at midnight; this will end, for all time, analog TV DX in northeastern Ohio, as every one of the area's other local television stations (RF channels 5, 8, 17, 23, 25, 43, 49, 55, 61, 67) have yanked the plug out of the wall on analog and are now operating 100-percent digital; channel 3's main signal (NBC) is, of course, also full-digital, but once their nightlight is extinguished at 12:01 a.m. 06.26, the station will be all-digital, with a UHF antenna being required to view their DTV transmissions. This could and likely will pose a problem for viewers still trying to get this station on its pre-transition DTV channel (2), as unscanned converter boxes will still try to find the station on that channel, to no avail. The boxes must be rescanned so that they will find WKYC on its present DTV channel, 17; otherwise, viewers will not find the station at all, and may get the idea their TV or box is out of order or that something is wrong with their antenna. I think most converter boxes in this area will have to be rescanned, as many if not most of the TV stations here are now on UHF DTV post-transition channels.

It would not surprise me if some people stop watching TV altogether after having problems getting their DTV converters to work, or trying to get DTV reception with an indoor antenna in anything other than prime signal areas (DTV station signals are less powerful than and do not reach as far as analog signals did); even then, DTV reception can be anywhere from iffy to non-existent, in some cases veering hard toward the latter extreme. The current state of DTV technology requires that an outdoor antenna with a rotor be used to get optimum (or in some cases any) OTA reception of local TV stations, even in very strong signal areas. I read in a recent issue of the e-mail newsletter of Broadcasting&Cable the story of a man who could not receive any OTA DTV whatsoever with an antenna despite the fact that he lives only three miles from the Chicago TV transmitters, most or all of which are located atop the Sears Tower in the downtown area of that city; therefore, IMO, the man should be getting city-grade reception--even in ATSC digital. (Maybe they are too strong and are overloading the converter box or the ATSC tuner in his flat-panel HDTV, as the case may be.) He said his only option now is to get cable.

And so it goes. I'm afraid this scenario is playing out in many areas of the US that are close (within several miles) of their local TV transmitters, such as, here in northeastern Ohio, the city of Parma, which is a southwestern suburb of Cleveland. Most of the TV transmitters serving NE Ohio are in or near that city, and viewers there should logically be getting excellent reception from all seven of them; however, I would be willing to bet (if I were a betting man, which I am not) that many folks there are having problems galore getting decent, or even any, OTA DTV reception.

Getting back to the man in Chicago who is now without TV since the transition, despite being within shouting distance of the local stations' transmitters: One would think that being only a few miles from the transmitters would mean there would be incredible signal strength, more than enough for optimum DTV reception; but I guess that's not the case. Does DTV produce no picture even in the presence of extremely strong signals that used to produce excellent analog reception, by virtue of overloading the converter box? Hmmm.

Sheeeeeesh! I love new technology and try to keep on top of it the best I know how. I read almost everything I can get my hands on regarding radio, TV, broadcasting and computers, and understand it perfectly myself (I grew up around technology, as my dad was an electrical engineer), but I am still baffled as to why the DTV transition has become such an obstacle to people with analog TVs and antennas. The FCC and the NAB have spent millions on TV and print public service announcements and nationwide advertising campaigns, all in the name of informing and educating the public on the transition. It has worked out well for the most part, but in some cases it has hit major roadblocks, as there are still too many people out there (1.5 million or so) who are still either totally unprepared for DTV (and are doing without television as a result), or are prepared and using a box, with the proper antenna (and it all works well, bringing in local DTV stations just fine), but don't know how to use it from the standpoint of rescanning (if the stations in their area have changed from UHF to VHF DTV channels or vice-versa). The DTV boxes should have an option on their main menus for rescanning which is easy enough for a child to invoke. If these boxes had such a menu option which is easy to find, without making the user go through layer upon layer of menus, the rescanning problem would be all but solved.

It has been stated on at least one DTV transition website (I don't recall which one; maybe it was the FCC's own DTV site) that DTV converter boxes are not plug-and-play devices. I believe very strongly that they should be. The people who use these boxes are not, by and large, television experts. They install the converters on their televisions and expect them to work as well as their old analog TVs did, with just an antenna. Many times, however, this is not the case and these viewers, now very frustrated, just throw up their hands and quit watching television altogether. This is a disastrous and potentially ruinous scenario for all full-power TV stations (not to mention the networks), which will lose a certain amount of advertising revenue with every lost viewer.

Good grief. The foregoing cannot and must not be allowed to continue if OTA television stations are to remain on the air. Converter boxes must be made so that the average person with no technical knowledge can set them up and operate them (including rescanning for relocated or new channels, if and when necessary). The average viewer wants to see his or her favorite TV shows and does not care, by and large, about the technical behind-the-scenes details involved in the production and transmission of television programs. Don't go into long discourses with most nontechnical people about the nuts-and-bolts aspect of DTV, as you will be going well over their heads. All most people need to know about DTV is how to operate the converter's remote control; the rest of it, as far as most nontechnical viewers are concerned, is black magic.

[radioactive]

The switchover date of August 31, 2011 was still being mentioned
in Canadian news reports of the U.S. transition this morning. Regards
to all.

kinda sad as it will happen on my birthday if that's the actual date

[Trance88]

Originally Posted by MRX37

Slightly better picture of my 1984 Trinitron pulling in Channel 32...


It'll be nice to have, until 2011 anyway...

Looks like a mini version of my '84 trinitron. Is that a 10 inch?

[45rpm]

Will someone please define a nightlight station for me?

And also, why are the remaining stations running confusing films on how to set up a converter box? If I wanted to know, I'd do a Google search. I can take as much of my time as I want, and I can definitely find a clear explanation.

[MRX37]

Originally Posted by Trance88

Looks like a mini version of my '84 trinitron. Is that a 10 inch?

Dunno. It's something like that.

Will someone please define a nightlight station for me?

And also, why are the remaining stations running confusing films on how to set up a converter box? If I wanted to know, I'd do a Google search. I can take as much of my time as I want, and I can definitely find a clear explanation.

You answered your own question. The nightlight stations are the few stations left that are broadcasting instructions for converting over to DTV.

[Dave A]

Here is a comprehensive update on East Coast DTV transitions and particulars. Scott Fybush, the author, is a fun read each week.

http://www.fybush.com/nerw.html

June 15 edition if you find an updated version.

And two LP stations from NV and WY have been sold and will be moved to NJ an DE. DE will be on Ch. 2 in analog. All 178 watts of power. Stay tuned,

Dave A

Dave A

[AUdubon5425]

Originally Posted by 45rpm

And also, why are the remaining stations running confusing films on how to set up a converter box? If I wanted to know, I'd do a Google search. I can take as much of my time as I want, and I can definitely find a clear explanation.

My contention is with the fast-talking complexity of these films, which are aimed at a segment of the population who are not technically savvy and probably do not have access to nor know how to navigate the internet. The TV used as an example on the film broadcast in my area is a fairly new one with multiple jacks. While sets like these should be addressed, I think it would be more helpful to illustrate how to hook a box up to an older set through a 75/300 balun, as well as a set with a simple single 75ohm RF connector. These two sets would properly represent over 90% of the TVs using a converter box.