Low number of tube type TV's around anymore

[Sandy G]

Yeah, you're weird. So am I. So is Bryan, & Charles, & Tim, & all the rest of us wahoos who love old TVs 'n' stuff. An' you know what ? I don't care. Everybody else thinks you're a mite tetched 'cause you like old TVs 'n' stuff ? Well, f*ck 'em all-Feed 'em fish heads 'n' cow cocks if they don't like it. Just because I don't particularly give a tinker's damn when some lumbering lummox carries an oblong shaped ball down a field in the fall, doesn't mean MY interest is any less important to ME. We just happen to be the guys who never lost the wonder of looking at a majickal box that displays pictures from far, far away. As Bryan said, Hang in there !

[Jeffhs]

Back in the early '70s I had no trouble finding old tube-powered TV sets. My neighbors in my old neighborhood were putting out old sets for the trash almost every week; eventually I had a collection of old sets that filled almost fully half my basement; they were of every major U.S. make except Magnavox. Where I live now (a small northeastern Ohio village 35 miles from Cleveland), I see a b&w portable on a treelawn every now and again, but even those are becoming scarce (I did, however, see a color portable TV about two years ago in back of the apartment building, as well as a 32" Mitsubishi table model). I pass up those portables because of space limitations in my small apartment; however, if I were still living in a house I'd have snapped them up without thinking twice. The only console TV I've seen to date on any curb in this town, in the nearly seven years I've lived here, was a 1978 RCA color set, 23", IIRC; about a year ago, I saw two stereo consoles just a few doors up the street from my apartment as well--didn't pick them up because of their size; I couldn't have horsed them down to my place myself, and even if I could, again there's the space problem.

The foregoing is why I now collect small antique/vintage radios, rather than televisions. One reason, of course, is that small table/portable radios take up far less room than even small portable TVs; the second is that old radios are still far more plentiful on ebay, for example, than are TV sets. Almost every vintage Zenith radio I have today, including an antique 1951 H511 table model, was an ebay score; the only one that wasn't is my C845, which was given to me by an AK member in the antique radio forum.

Antique and vintage television sets are indeed rare these days; let's face it, they will eventually become all but extinct, or at least extremely difficult to find. The sets we'll be seeing by the side of the road, on curbs, treelawns and such these days, and in the future for certain, will be small and not-so-small black plastic table model and portable color sets, as they go bad and are replaced by flat-panel HD TVs.

Today's televisions have little or no value to collectors, and there are few consoles anymore; today, folks put their large-screen offshore-built color TVs, stereo gear and perhaps a cable box and a DVD player in an entertainment center cabinet, kind of a 21st century version of a three-way console TV. (My avatar shows how I used a small oak utility cart to house most of my entertainment gear, except my stereo system which is next to my desk.) A friend of mine has his entertainment system in a huge floor-to-ceiling entertainment center cabinet that takes up almost fully half of one wall of his family room. The last time any American television manufacturer ever made a TV or three-way console anywhere near that large was maybe 50 years ago or more. These are the "consoles" of today (and the future), like it or not.

The few consoles that were made in the 1990s were manufactured by Zenith/LG. However, these sets, not to mention the black plastic Zenith/LG portables (and every other make of black plastic cube TV sets), are hardly collectible, as the console cabinets are now made of particle board covered with photo-finish material; the chassis of these sets are el-cheapo LG-made stuff as well that won't last more than a couple of years before going West. Please don't get me started on the CRTs in these LG-manufactured, rebadged consoles/table sets; they are every bit as bad as the TVs themselves, from what I've read here and elsewhere on other electronics message boards.

The foregoing is why I also have said before in this forum that those of us who collect old antique and vintage TV sets should keep them, as they are becoming very difficult to find. As the Big Lots ad says, "When they're gone, they are gone". The same may be said for the old TVs some of us, like Doug, drh4683, have in collections. Once you give up any of these old sets, they will be gone forever, so I would think twice before getting rid of any of them. Of course, if you are disposing of old sets to make more room in a basement, for example (Doug has mentioned here having to thin out his TV collection for just that reason), that's OK; the same if you are moving and must reduce or even clear out an entire collection, as I had to do back in 1972 when I moved (the first time). It nearly broke my heart, for example, to throw out a 23" Zenith K2739 (1963 vintage) that I had retubed and gotten working like a fine Swiss watch only about a year before (gee, I wish I would have kept the tubes--they were practically new). I was able to keep three old sets when I moved (a 1961 Philco Briefcase 19 nineteen-inch portable, a Sharp 12-inch b&w set I had bought just two years before which was my daily watcher for awhile, and a 1964 Silvertone roundie), but the rest of them went out for the trash about a month before the move. The Sharp and Philco portables (and the Silvertone color set) had to be trashed as well when they eventually developed serious problems (I wasn't in a position to do much serious troubleshooting in those days and this was long before the Internet, not to mention AK), although the Philco didn't really bite the dust until some time after I moved back to my old neighborhood in 1975. By then I had purchased a cheap 12" b&w tube-type portable which was my daily watcher until two years later, when something shorted out (I turned the TV on one afternoon and saw a plume of white smoke rising from the air vents in the back of the cabinet). That set was replaced by a Zenith SC300 19" portable, which I should have held on to because it would have been a collector's item by now as well. The SC300 was replaced two years later (!) by a 12" Zenith solid-state portable that lasted over 20 years, and was still working very well when I got rid of it in 2000, the year after I moved here (no room for three TVs, as I mentioned in another post). I've seen an earlier model on ebay, the Zenith "Spirit of '76" 12" portable made in 1975 and offered for sale the following year, in honor of the U. S. Bicentennial. That set was a limited edition and is almost certainly a collector's item today, as it had a replica of the U. S. Constitution (the document) gracing the sides of the cabinet. If you are lucky enough to have one or to have won one in an ebay auction, hold on to it, as they don't make them anymore. (BTW, that set was manufactured to the standards of Zenith Radio Corporation, Chicago, by Zenith of Taiwan.)

I haven't seen the likes of those sets since then. For example, I had an old (probably '50s-vintage) 21" Philco "Microgrid 390" console that worked very well until the socket came off the neck of the CRT, a white 21-23" Admiral table model with the control cluster under a trap door on top of the set, an Admiral 21-23" console . . . and the list goes on. These sets certainly would have been collectors' items today; I haven't seen an Admiral TV in the trash, either in my old neighborhood or here, for example, since trashing my white table model 34 years ago.

Come to think of it, it has been several years since I've seen any name-brand TV set in the trash--no, I take that back. I did see a 12" RCA portable near my apartment the first year I lived here (1999), probably made by a subsidiary of RCA, not Thomson, I don't think, as that TV looked like it may have been made a decade or more before--besides, Thomson makes only color sets now and doesn't do b&w anymore, if they ever did. The few b&w portables available these days are the small 5" AC/DC sets with AM/FM radio that sell for $11.99 or less in discount stores, and aren't worth repairing when they go bad. They aren't collectible either, except for the 5" Zenith AC/DC set with radio that shows up on ebay now and then, but some folks might say even that set isn't worth collecting. Liking Zenith radios/TV as I do, I might bid on the next 5" AC/battery Zenith I see on the bay, but I'd better be careful. It might get me started collecting old TVs again.

[JCFitz]

Originally Posted by bgadow

Bobby, I know the feeling of being odd-man-out. Not a good feeling and yes, discouraging. I hope nobody has to feel that way in this group. Sometimes there will be postings on here and nobody comes back and answers-probably because nobody has a good answer to the question. I think we have been welcoming to new members. Not all that long ago that I came here for the first time. Soon I felt like part of the group. There is nowhere locally that I could ever meet such a group of likeminded people. One of the great things about the net.

I once had a good sized collection of tube color sets but in those pre-internet days there was no way to know that anyone else cared about them. I felt kinda guilty having them, as if I was wasting my time. I concentrated on my radio collection for over a decade before discovering this site and realizing it was "okay" to collect later model tube TV's.

The hobby will only grow. Someday the sets we are saving now will be in demand. Why should we be ashamed of collecting old TV sets? Really, is it any more strange than such mainstream hobbies as model trains, beanie babies, postage stamps?

Hang in there!

Or jukeboxes. I'm not a tv collector like the others on here but I'm a tv repairman for a living. I try to look out for any tube tvs I find to pass on to others who appreciate it.I have lots of old solid state tvs and I hate to throw any away.I'm hoping someone will appreciate them sometime. I used to pick up any tv I could get my hand on in the old days to fix and sell at the flea market. but even the most modern tvs are hard to get rid of in the used market anymore.I am a jukebox and record collector and pick up old turntables and record players I find interesting. I just added a jukebox to my collection and it was only 5 miles from my house. Found it in The Guide( a local weekly advertising publication). Everybody thinks I'm nuts too.When I get help to pick it up there will be 8 jukeboxes in my singlewide mobile home.I do find old tube tvs fascinating and if I had my own place in 2000 may very well have ended up with my uncle's 1968 Zenith combo when he got rid of it because he didn't have room to keep it when he got a 50" projection Toshiba. My daily watcher is over 20 years old(a 27" Zenith Advanced System 3) and to me it has a better picture than a Sony Wega and probably will still be going strong when most of the 1st generation of Wegas is in the landfill. I to tinkered on tvs all through high school.

[daro]

I am the same as I grew up in the 60's & 70's when the tubes still ruled & the transistor was taking over. I used to cut my teeth working on those old B&W TV's that you could get for next to nothing in the late 70's & early 80's as colour TV's were taking over from the old B&W ones. I used to tinker with old tube radios as well before these became collectible. These days it is very hard to come across an old B/W let alone a first generation colour TV from the mid 70's as a lot of these have now became landfill in council tips in the march of progress in our throw-away society of today

[Arkay]

Leyden jars became capacitors...
Piles became batteries...
Glow Tubes became Geissler Tubes which became rectifiers and CRTs and modern valves/tubes and even light bulbs... before they got (at least partially/sometimes) replaced with transistors, followed by integrated circuits.

OK, I'm simplifying slightly, but you get the idea. Things develop, change and evolve, albeit often in sloppy and irregular fashion. Most of the time, we hope things improve, and in many ways, things do improve and have improved. Today's digital BPC can be produced more cheaply and in greater quantities than anything sonically equivalent from earlier times could have been (let alone the better-sounding higher-end stuff), despite the fact that many of us are not wholly satisfied with the sound of them. Television pictures have better resolution and larger screens and smaller side-profiles/footprints than ever before.

Along the path of all this "improvement", however, there is some loss. No longer are cases made of beautiful solid hardwoods like walnut or mahogany. [Then again, if they were, these endangered trees would have been extinct years ago.] First the hardwood cases were replaced with wood-veneered cases, both cheaper and more resistant to splitting. Then the real wood veneers were replaced with vinyl faux-wood veneers. Now it's painted plastic stuff. Progress? For the industry, yes; for the consumer, well, yes and no, maybe mostly "no".

"Planned obsolescence" means that nothing is designed to last, and many of us regret that, feeling that there is value, if only psychological and emotional, in things that have some stability and longevity. Where once only wealthy families would have a radio or television in their living room, today people have them in many rooms, and teenagers can carry thousands of songs around in their pockets. Progress in many respects, but progress with some regressive aspects.

The computer industry has a lot to do with the changes that have occurred in recent years. People today assume when they buy a computer, that in a few years the computers will be both much faster and somewhat cheaper, and so far that has always been true. That mentality carries over to other areas, including TVs and audio gear, especially since those things now have many "computer chips" inside them. The "MTV generation" or "Generation X" (or is it GenY or GenZ or neo-retro-GenX this week?) expects things NOT to last, and would rather stay trendy than seek quality that lasts.

Then there is the issue of nostalgia and memory, both individual and collective: the TVs (and other gear) from the past remind us of our past, the past of our parents and grandparents; of where we came from and where we have been. It reminds us of simpler times, of more elemental times, often with the "rose-colored glasses" of nostalgic hindsight. When the gear itself is gone, we feel that those times, with all their warmth and values, will also be lost, gone, forgotten... and we regret that. Therefore, we wish to preserve what we can of those times, and hope that others who come later will share some glimmering, some memory, of where we and they came from...

We cannot stop the passage of time. We cannot stop evolution, change, or progress... but perhaps by slowing down the disappearance of certain segments and bits from the passage of time, we may help preserve some memories and some values. That isn't a bad thing. In centuries past, village storytellers kept the "collective memory" of the community in their heads, and passed it along by telling stories around the campfires. Today, in our expanded-yet-shrunk and connected-yet-fractured world, perhaps we serve a purpose that isn't entirely different, although not remotely as central to the greater community.

On a more practical level, we gain pleasure from our hobby, a valuable benefit in itself. If we are lucky, our acquisitions will increase in market value. Most of us hope that our children will share our appreciation of these things, but recognize that they may not. At least we can hope that if they don't, they will be able to gain economically when they pass the things on to someone who does/will appreciate them. We can't take our gear with us when we depart this world, but perhaps we can be good custodians of it for future generations, while it is in our possession.

A waste of time? Perhaps.... but that can be said about most vocations and avocations, depending on the perspective one adopts. With that in mind, I'll shut up now... waffled on long enough, already!

[Chad Hauris]

I have always enjoyed collecting and working on the things I do just for the enjoyment of it. Have never felt the need or desire to sell anything nor do I care if it goes up in value, etc. I guess the only thing I have that has any collector value may be Hammond organs.
Another thing I collect is 60's and 70's school buses and those have mostly disappeared as well. The last ones I got were from churches for $200.00 each.

The thing is I have not experienced any ridicule or put-downs for what I do...everyone who visits our shop really enjoys our collection of jukeboxes, radios, etc. and a look at how a repair shop was in the good old days.
Have had some articles in the paper about my TV and bus collection and also about our shop.
I personally think if your "friends" think what you do is weird then it is time to find new friends! Seriously. I have been lucky enough to meet friends who appreciate old electronics, cars, musical instruments etc. and also most business acquintances too seem to find what we do at our shop interesting.

[NowhereMan 1966]

Originally Posted by Sandy G

Yeah, you're weird. So am I. So is Bryan, & Charles, & Tim, & all the rest of us wahoos who love old TVs 'n' stuff. An' you know what ? I don't care. Everybody else thinks you're a mite tetched 'cause you like old TVs 'n' stuff ? Well, f*ck 'em all-Feed 'em fish heads 'n' cow cocks if they don't like it. Just because I don't particularly give a tinker's damn when some lumbering lummox carries an oblong shaped ball down a field in the fall, doesn't mean MY interest is any less important to ME. We just happen to be the guys who never lost the wonder of looking at a majickal box that displays pictures from far, far away. As Bryan said, Hang in there !

Yeah, i've been there, there are some people who think that our hobbies of collecting old TV's, radios, stereo equipment, etc., is the equivalent to pulling wings off of flies or something. I know there are people that like to whack a little white ball with a wooden or a metal stick with a semi-circular thing at the end of it so they can get it into a hole in the ground. If you ask me, I say, well "that's a dumb thing to do." Still I realize it is "different strokes for different folks" so live and let live. If I want to watch a 1982 Zenith or a 1966 sony B&W TV, well, it is my choice and also it is my choice to fix an old TV or radio for my pleasure.

I think too, besides the electronics of it, being a child of a single mother and still experience economic scaricity from time to time, I'm use to keeping old stuff working as well as I can along with finding old stuff as well. I've been through the financial ringer with health emergencies of 3 cats this year, two passed on, we pulled one through. I'm down to playing Playstation on my 1966 Sony B&W set, my 9 incher. It is weird but a B&W TV is better than none at all.

Hey, to all here, who cares, as long as we enjoy it and as long as we don't blow up the world or something, who cares what others think? I also like to target shoot too, I guesswe all need to find our challenges in different places be it on the golf course, shooting range or trying to get an old piece of equipment to work again.

One interesting problem I've had to is trying to explain the appeal of listening to music over AM radio to someone born in 1983. Now that is a challenge.

DE KA3WRW

[peverett]

Chad Harris mentioned old school buses. I just saw an article on the Internet stating that a lot of these (at least on the east coast) end up in Africa as city buses. The purchaser quoted in the article stated that US school buses are stronger than European ones.

In any case, hobbys are for enjoyment, not making money. To each his own, whether it be Golf, woodworking, auto restoration, electronics restoration, or whatever.

[Sandy G]

I remember a rumor running around that the Russians were buying every clean, used Crown Vic/Marquis De Sade they could get their hands on, & using them as cop cars or taxis...wouldn't surprise me...almost nothing does anymore...

[Bobby Brady]

Anyone who thinks collecting TVs is weird, wouldn't think so anymore if I admitted that I'm going to drive 250 miles and take a day off this Friday just to hear an old Federal Thunderbolt air raid siren blowing

Charles[/QUOTE]

I would do the same thing!

Thanks everybody for the encouraging words.

You guys are the greatest!

[Bobby Brady]

Originally Posted by Sandy G

I remember a rumor running around that the Russians were buying every clean, used Crown Vic/Marquis De Sade they could get their hands on, & using them as cop cars or taxis...wouldn't surprise me...almost nothing does anymore...

A freind in the car business would tell of Chevy Caprices and Crown Vics, etc. being purchased to be given to chosen citizens in the middle eastern areas like Saudi Arabia.
They buy nice condition cars and also buy new odometers to install in them.
I imagined the people being told they are new cars and I am certain they would not dispute that. I saw a 60 Minutes show where a king over there would allow his people to line up to speak to him personally to ask for a gift.

Apparently he is such an awesome king as to even give them new cars... for free!

[rca2000]

Cause I have found a LOT of older TV's in the last several mths. or so. I'll see if I can remember and list them all::

Last monday night-- 16" Zenith BW-- 1966 model-- 14m21. ALL tubes, hot chassis. In pretty good condition, needs cleaned up and doubler cap needs replaced. CRT good(as usual) good fly and such-- gets a raster, but not much RF coming through yet.

Last saturday-- Drove about 200 miles to pick up a Motorola ts-915 SS color set. 1968 model, works-in-the drawer. CRT replaced in '81, with 25ajp22 according to sticker in set. (was) in very good condition cabinet wise(till zenith portable scratched corner of cabinet(!!), Set came with warranty card. still in van.

3 weeks ago-- Found THREE old BW sets::

1961 RCA console(not anymore, 2 legs are broke) KCS-136 set. 23" tube all tubes, including 5u4 rect. and 3a3 HV rect. GREAT crt-- works somewhat.

1964 Mgnavox 21" table model-- has a 6gc5 Audio out. tube. Trans. powered, ss rect. has sound(a little) but no hv- suspect fly.

1958 Zenith 21" table model. Chassis 17a31. Nice set, usual boilerplate zenith chassis. Trans. ower, 5u4 rect. has raster, no pic or sound CRT seems good.

Early august-- Found a 1974 Sylvania EO-3 console color set on garqge sale run. Solid state, Tranny power. Has early PLL type countdown V and H osc. Does NOT work, shorted diodes (I think) in B+ supply.

July-- Zenith 1961 SC300 portable 19" chassis 16f21. Metal cabinet, tranny powered. FULL space command chassis, ALL tubes including remote. Good CRT. Has a bit of picture, (cap problems in B+ and vert foldover).

July-- GE '70' s 13" Bw SS set. Good CRT, works pretty well. Chassis Xa. Hot chassis.

May-- Acquired Admiral 19a21 at Hamfest. 1949 model 7" Electrostatic set.

Ok so Im the odd-man out here. I grew up in the 70's and 80's and saw the 8-track revolution to cassette to CDs, video pong to Atari-400s then Nintendo but one thing that has not escaped me nor have I let it go was being raised on vacuum tubes. My elmer Tom introduced me to to the world of tubes when I was 8 years old shortly before he retired from Northwest Airlines. Tom went from the spark gap transmitter to the pentium over his lifetime but his past was never far behind, more like his whole house. The only thing "modern" was his XL-100 set and that was a gift but everything else was early 70s or older. Tom introduced me to the workbench and taught me the art of fixing old radios starting with a Zenith "racetrack" AM set and went up from there. By the time I was 11 I was building my own tube radios, a QRP rig and everything else under the sun. When I was maybe 10 or so I remember someone asking me if transistors were better than tubes I said no and to this day I will stand by my answer. Tom was a foreman in the radio and avionics shop and had a hand in maintaining the various nav/com stuff that was being used before the MSP airport was completly overhauled in the late 80s. I might have been the only teenager of the time to actually have "stick" time in a Douglas DC3.
During my teen years I also began to branch out and started hanging around a few of the local real TV service shops one being Marties TV and the other was Jensen TV and I was the only teenager around with a 22" RCA new vista color in his room along with a monster pioneer 1280. Spoiled? nah earnings plus dumpster diving paid for that one. Ok so Im a little spoiled. I still have that pioneer and Zenith racetrack radio today.

It has become a personal quest to wind the clock back in time and forget that these lifeless plastic and glass chineese cubes even exist. Im so sick of reading "made in china" on everything I buy I have made it a rule to avoid this junk anymore. Sometimes its not always possible but if I put a little effort into looking maybe I can keep some of my money in the good old USA after all.

My sets so far to date:
Magnavox Total Automatic Color Astrosonic Combo, works perfectly
Zenith 20Y1C37 metal works good but has "snake" on left side scan
Motorola Quasar Works In A Drawer works perfectly
Sylvania Hybrid 25" console cant remember model but works perfect
Zenith Racetrack AM radio
Tram D201 CB
Drake TR4C 80-10 ham
several Heathkit "hifi" amps AA-100 AA-111
RCA stereo FM exciter model unknown tube based
homebrew 6146 based stereo amp
tons of WW-2 vintage radio gear, parts 30+ dynamotors
3 BC348 receivers
Hammerlund HQ-170A receiver
an excess of motorola radios and related I cant even think of!
so Im a little wierd
109

[truetone36]

I seem to have long dry spells, and then I suddenly find a treasure trove! I went today to look at an old house about 10 miles from me, as the owner wants me to tear down all buildings on the property. Behind a 1940's bungalow is a ca. 1900 house that was used for storage for 50 years or so. The contents of these 2 houses as well as 4 sheds are mine for cleaning up the place. A lot of goodies here, antique furniture and household stuff, 2 wood-burning stoves. But the first thing I noticed were the t.v.'s that are stacked in the living room of the back house. they are;
RCA CTC-38 console (looks good, no cataracts on CRT)
Zenith Space Command 600 console
RCA B/W 21" table set, ca. 1958
Muntz 21" B/W console, ca. 1953
there's also a 19" table set there as well, but I don't know what it is as there's a bunch of stuff stacked in front of it right now.
I haven't even really looked through the sheds yet.
I'm moving the t.v. sets home tomorrow.
I brought home a Silvertone radio and a Silvertone accoustic guitar today, as well as some antique kitchen utensils


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