Most embarassing movie - "O' Brother..."

[Whitehall]

Guess I have little sympathy for anti-social criminals.

Remember that "Cool Hand Luke" was filmed during the civil rights clashes when the Yankees tried hard to make the South look unappealing. It too had a hidden political agenda.

Boys, there's a reason that road camps are not Club Med.

[Fisherdude]

If you're looking for films that didn't exactly portray the South in the best light, it's tough to beat Deliverance and Easy Rider.

As far as O Brother goes, as was mentioned, any film that is set in the past would need to reflect the times, or it wouldn't be accurate.

It's a tad painful to be reminded of how we all thought 50-75 years ago.

[Whitehall]

Re: "Easy Rider"

"It's a tad painful to be reminded of how we all thought"

Yes, when I was a punk hippie teenager I thought a pair of f*cked-up, dope-dealing motorcycle criminals were too cool to kill too. Today, if they showed up in my neighborhood, I'd at least call the cops if not reach for my own gun.

As for "Deliverance", "Brokeback Mountain" won how many Oscars?

[soundmotor]

Originally Posted by Whitehall

Sorry, but I saw this movie as an attack on red-state Americans and part of the "culture wars." Guess I see a hidden agenda, like a lot of Hollywood's recent output.

Having recently watched OBWAT again, hyperbolic & allegorical would best describe it, but not agendized. By your diktat, Paper Moon & Grapes of Wrath would also fall into that category. I just don't see an attack nor buy a wheels within wheels subversion either. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[fotno]

Whitehall - Bless your heart - You're thinking much too hard ol' son. I am from the south, I still live in the south (and wouldn't trade my little house for the Hearst Mansion). God willin', they'll bury me here. I loved the movie, and contrary to feeling insulted, I thought that it was (fantasy excepted) a fairly accurate representation of not only the south of the 1930's, but also the south of my youth as well.

I've known those people, I've been around those folks all my life. I was baptised in much the same manner as the movie shows. Chain gangs just like those in OBWAT were still active when I was a boy, and sad to say, the KKK isn't dead yet either, although they're a good deal deader than they were 70 or even 30 years ago. We had an outhouse until I was nearly grown, a blacksmith in the center of town, no air-conditioning, and I NEVER wore shoes till school started.

I was born poor, likely as not, I'l die in that same condition. But don't fret over us poor ol' southern fellers, we can take care of ourselves. Matter of fact, I don't recall ever hearing a southerner say he was offended by what people in other parts of the country thought of us. To tell the truth, I'm still trying to figure out how you could be embarassed or offended over something you know little to nothing about.

Thanks for the concern and all, but we're not a bunch of pitiful, backward children who need to be protected from our own reflection in a mirror, no matter how warped that mirror might be. Two of my Great-great Uncles fought at the battle of King's Mountain in October 1780 (about a hundred years after my family originally reached these shores), we KNOW who we are, we don't need anybody else to tell us. If you wanna concentrate on what pisses a southerner off, here's a starter; People from Hollywood using "ya'll" to address ONE person. See if you can get 'em to quit doin' that!

[Whitehall]

Thinking? Nay, just a gut reaction to an uncomfortable movie. My thinking is after the fact - why was this movie so irritating?

If nobody else sees or worries about the putdowns and the holier-than-thous behind it, then fine. Maybe I'm just too sensitive a soul.

[Sandy G]

Well, I got that impression from "The Grapes of Wrath." The message was larded on thick 'n' heavy in THAT one-when they get to the Gov't Camp, it's like they've died & gone to Heaven. And the guy who ran the Gov't Camp-Hoo, boy ! Talk about the Great White Father....I guess that's what people were lookin' for in the late '30s-early '40s...an all powerful, paternalistic Government to save them from themselves.-Sandy G.

[Jack Lord]

Rednecks/Southern backwoods types are the last people we can still make fun of, & not get the PC Police riled up.

There is certainly some truth to that. I would go further and say that white males have become the last acceptable target of jokes, resentment, and misaimed hostility.

But two things we should all remember:

1. Although they do, people should NEVER get their information from movies. Movies are entertainment, which in itself is a distortion of reality. A good movie can spark in an interest in something, but it will never replace self-investigation and research.

2. The South runs the nation, with some help from the West. No matter what your personal politics are, it is clear that every major politician comes from the South: Clinton, Bush II, Carter, Gingrich, Frist, Gore, LBJ, Edwards, etc. Even big time non-Southerners, like Bush I and Cheney, made their bones in the South. The days of New York state producing a candidate for the White House are over.

So, stand tall Southern Man. This Yankee likes y'all (we do say that in DC).

[Sandy G]

Well, another thing about us Southern boys-and this is something we will NEVER overcome-is that we are from a "defeated" country. That one simple fact tugs on us all our lives, even if we never admit it. We can make up all this blather about tradition, chivalry, etc, etc, but it will never overcome the fact that we lost, & the damyankees won, no matter how reprehensible & undeserving they may be today. And most Yankees are -Gulp-as fine & decent people as any in the South. I still think the South had a very good point-the concept of States' Rights vs. the Mighty Imperial Federal Government- but this really isn't the place to debate it.-Sandy G.

[Jack Lord]

Yes, but often victory comes out of defeat. Can any sane person claim that Germany is worse off today than before 1945? Technically, Canada was on the losing side of the Revolutionary War, but nobody can claim that Canada is not a very successful nation. Sometimes a group can lose and lose and lose again, yet not lose a chance at success (the Palestinians).

Sure the South lost, but the country as a whole is much better for it.

But I digress...

[thedelihaus]

To all concerned,

For some reason this thread really struck a cord with me. It kept me thinking late into the night about how the South is (sometimes) portrayed for cheap laughs and the like. I'm a Boston Mass resident, but have spent time travelling and have stayed in 33 states. I never personally felt or viewed the Southern states as full of yokels or dummies, and never noticed this big dramatic "change" in intellegence or integrity when crossing borders. Sure, there were on occasion bonafide almost comical living caractures of the perceived southerner, but come to Boston and I'll match this- I'll bring you to Southie to see some stereotypical Southie Irish (I have enough Irish blood in me to take offence but I don't) or to the North End to see some decendants of italian blood that are just as easily caracaturized.

From my personal experience, many of the "southie" and "north enders" exhibit no dramatic decrease in intellegence as thought nor are they any different integrity-wise than folk from other parts of Mass- many are clever, resourceful and successfull business owners, raising wonderful children, just carrying a bit of an accent picked up from their folk or exhibiting some personality traits nurtured from birth and ingrained in heritage. Same with Southerners. I didn't go down there as a superior northerner carpetbagger and use smoke and mirrors and cleverly fleece 'em of all they have, or whip them at poker or a brisk game of Scatagories or Trivial Persuit without ever breaking a sweat. Most experiences with general conversations or socializing in the south, whether Texas (which I love dearly) or Tennesse (which I'm incredibly fond of) or other states, were not significantly different than when I spent time in New York (Manhattan) or Boston, or California. It might just take place around grabbing dinner at a steakhouse or Burrito joint instead of a sushi bar, and ending up at a music show at a roadhouse or Grand Ol' Opry instead of a nightclub and The Appollo. So what?

Here in Boston I do see some comics at the comedy clubs cruelly make fun of southerners, and some folk around the water cooler goofing on the "rednecks" in an unkind way. I say shame on them. It doesn't take too much to see who the ignorant folk really are. Here in Boston, there is actually a music fest called the "Redneck Fest" where, in all honesty boys, the southern states are honored, with a big, usually 3 day southern-style BBQ and great hard hitting rock and roll (with touches of country and blues inbedded). It's where meat and potatos, big open spaces, and the blue collar working man are honored, with pride, and not with irony.

Whitehall, although I personally didn't take offense to "Oh Brother...", I commend you for your concern and sensitivity to this issue. It just goes to show the quality of your mettle. And I can see where you could get upset by the film.

fotno, you make some interesting, and I'd say accurate observations. It was good to read your post.

And Sandy, if I ever get back to travelling, I'd like to stop by your house and have a sodapop or a beer with you. Tennessee is one of my favorite states- in my humble opinion, the kindest, nicest people in all of the states (although there's 17 more states I still need to visit). The Smokey Mountains, Dollywood, Memphis, and Nashville, always a great experience. Well, there was one weird experience in Memphis, but i digress....

[Jack Lord]

Well said. Mark me down as a big fan of Tennessee as well. Great place, great people.

[rocdad]

Originally Posted by Whitehall

I agree that "Driving Miss Daisy" was a more representative and a more enjoyable film. But then, so was "Gone with the Wind"!

I'm sorry if am mis-reading your point. And, with all my respect.

I hear this often, but take issue with it. Driving Miss Daisy, while representing those people in society at that time, was far from representative of the South. It was a small Jewish sub-culture of suburban Atlanta. Probably most Southerners were unaware it even existed. I agree, the actors were dead-on for those parts.

Gone With The Wind was just entertainment at best. Very little accurate history. As much as many would like to believe it, there was very little of this life in the South. If it did exist, it was confined to the sugar and rice plantations along the coast and in the New Orleans area. The life that was portrayed in GWTW was one that required breeding. This did not exist to any great extent. Breeding requires money and time. Both of which were in short supply in the South. These folks worked hard. They were farmers. Men, women and children all had dirty hands. No need for hoop skirts.

So, yes it may have existed, but it was far from being a window into Southern life.

Incidentally, I live in the South. I am a proud graduate of the University of Georgia. My wife is Southern (I kind of like her). My kids were all born in the South. I was born in TX, but moved away early. I am not so foolish as to believe that I am Southern. I think there is a multi-generational requirement to be Southern. There has been a lot of pain, suffering and hard work. I have too much respect for that, to dare claim it.

My two favorite books, regarding this beautiful part of our country: John Grisham's "A Painted House", and Harper Lee's "To Kill A Mockingbird". I don't believe they are wholly representative either, but definitely accurate.

[Retro Stereo]

Originally Posted by Whitehall

"Fargo" was much more humane and respectful of the characters in my view than "O Brother". I've been in Minnesota and in the Deep South and "Fargo" was a more accurate view.

A broad brush in parody can be fine and entertaining but this was just hateful in places.

You have certainly NOT been in any area of Minnesota that I've been to and I've lived here just about all my life.

If you're in Silicon Valley, there is a news guy out in LA by the name of Paul Majors who just came from Minnesota. I can name 4 or 5 news people on CNN that came from Minnesota and a whole lot more other National TV news, or large market area news people that came from Minnesota. Have you heard ANY of them sound like a character from the movie Fargo??? Nah, I didn't think so....

I really don't know where you got that "Fargo was a more accurate view" from, buts it's pure BS. There might be an old Scadanavian village or two waaaaay up by the Canadien border that might talk like that, but nothing south of Fargo, where 99% of the Minnesota population is.

Because a small percentage of people down in the southern bayous speak a form of French, everyone down there talks that way? No.

You really shouldn't make inaccurate generalizations.

One more thing, I liked both Fargo and O' Brother because I knew they were NOT accurate portrayals of what either of these two places are really like today.


Retro

[Sandy G]

I should hope "Fargo" wasn't representative of Minnehaha...Everybody in it was portayed as either 1) Psychotic, 2) an Idiot, 3) or both, w/the exception of Francis McDermott's character. An' y'all think WE talk funny...Jeez, Louise ! What WAS that they were speakin' ?!?-Sandy G.