Peter Yanczer mechanical kit

[rld-tv01]

Dave, I sent you my email via PM.

I received the audio coaxial cable and it didn't resolve the video problem. I took the scanning Disk off the camera and tested the P.E. Cell by waving my hand in front of the sensor area. The receiver showed slow and fast waves of my hand. So I'm starting to think my electronics for both the camera and the receiver are working and my problem is most likely optical (placement of Sensor window from lens and distance to object to be scanned as well as lighting. With the disk off I can look into the lens from the front and see the sensor window. Anyway a slow process.

[Dave A]

I hooked up the receiver to a CD player for the NBTV version of playback for their science fair kit. It's a 32 line file trying to reproduce on a 24 line receiver. I did get the garbled information I thought I would get. The files are of moving heads and in motion. Light and dark are there and they change.

It now looks like the receiver is trying to work. No dark lines so no disc cleaning needed. Pic below.

Something is happening between the camera and receiver. My test card A test is next to see if it works on rld's receiver.

Tom...there is no built in sync at all. Manual sync is done by the left knob which is a contrast control at full speed to match the camera. There is a detent at the bottom that bumps the speed down a bit to manually try to match the camera motor speed and center the image. Tap the detent for a moment and come back full to try sync. The right control is for LED brightness and full power off. You watch and bump the left control to try to chase the camera. That is sync.

rld...got your pm with your email. Thanks and we can continue with files. I doubt that anything mechanically changed since we built our units to get to this degree of problems. I will still post here for others.

I am amazed that there are only two of us chasing this solution. I welcome any insights and inputs.

Pic is sideways. Turn CW to see the vertial view.

[rld-tv01]

A photo of the mechanical camera front without the disk. The felt is to protect the disk if it scratches the front wall of the camera. The window viewport to the photo cell is located at bottom center. I got the side by side hand wave test to work both with the camera in and out of the cabinet. Previously with the disk installed the side by side hand wave didn't work. I found the RCA jack coming from the photo cell is intermittent and seems to work if I rotate the RCA connector with the external cable pointing upwards. I haven't reinstalled the disk to see if it is functioning now for the hand wave test.

[Dave A]

These were singular builds by Peter and I think not many of them were sold. I forgot how complicated the construction was from electronics to the box/lense/trim construction instructions. I just re-glued a loose receiver box panel today. Old age. I am thinking I have had this for 15-18 years. We will make it work again.

[rld-tv01]

Latest test:

Picture attached:
Top left and top right are photo of receiver with 8 inch Owl statue with light to the top right of object.
Bottom left photo is receiver with light turned off.
Bottom right is photo of light pointed directly at camera lens.
In all 4 photos the image on the receiver is scrolling vertically.

If the light source is moved back and forth in front of lens the images changes from bottom left image to bottom right image immediately.

[Dave A]

I just looked again at mine not powered. The electronic images seem to be there as we both see. I started thnking that we may have a motor decline on either side. I looked at my motors for a port for a bit of DeOxit spray. Then I turned each motor by the spindle at the back. Surprise, I could turn them but I heard scraping against the interior of the cabinet on both units. I do not know about yours but mine are dragging which could create what I am seeing. I have to look at moving both interior units a fraction back to clear the scraping. I can also then get a view of the discs to see if they have jumped the track or warped over the years as mine did work in the day. Maybe even a disc/motor grommet gone bad. It will be for tomorrow to investigate. Stay tuned.

[rld-tv01]

Today's test. Rereading Peter's build instructions again. The rubber gromlets (washers) holding the desk from coming off should not restrict the movement of the disk. This helps with synchronization. I pulled them forward a little, away from the disk which seems to correct my vertical scrolling issue. Adjustment to receiver only and not to the camera disk gromlets. I am still not getting a good recognizable picture.

[Dave A]

Yesterday's test. I cleared the dragging which was a RCA cable stored against the disc. All smooth now. I cleaned every connector with steel wool. Hooked it all up under no power and got 0 ohms ground between units. Powered up and did my flashlight test. It sees the blob and does sync with a strong signal. My next test is a major league 8mm film camera light bar to illuminate the Phanatic/Felix. Shop lighting may not be enough. In my case, I am thinking (remembering) the camera needs a lot of light. I may be seeing PE cell noise under not enough light to give a good signal. And we continue to be the only two with the kit.

[old_tv_nut]

Tonight's ETF Zoom prompted me to run to my desktop computer and do a complete search for anything about the camera/monitor kit.
I feel sure I remember something about it being available, but sorry to say I have no emails, documents or photos on the computer regarding it.

[Dave A]

Wayne, thanks for the try. This kit goes back 20+ years ago. I think mine may be working but I have to give it massive lighting to get it going as I remember.

The first test is Peter's origianl "A" test card for a test. I have to reproduce that on a 8x11 sheet. If someone can reproduce it in 8x11 full page better than me, that would help.

[Notimetolooz]

I just watched the ETF Zoom video.

I wonder if you are using a different type of light source than you did a while ago when it worked better. If your current light source has 60Hz flicker (fluorescent or LED) the camera may be picking up that modulation.

Reminder; Mute your mic when you have finished talking.

[old_tv_nut]

60 Hz is too low. The lowest used is 100 hz in 50 hz countries. CFLs typically run in the 5khz range.

[Notimetolooz]

Originally Posted by old_tv_nut

60 Hz is too low. The lowest used is 100 hz in 50 hz countries. CFLs typically run in the 5khz range.

Could you explain what you meant a bit more.

The light would actually vary at 120Hz for a lamp using 60 Hz since the lamps conducts in both polarity directions of the AC line.

He isn't necessarily using CFLs.

[jhalphen]

Hi to all,

I watched the replay of the ETF Sept meeting so am informed of the issues.

Don't want to crash an already open door, but doesn't the Yanczer camera assembly kit show everything you need:
https://www.earlytelevision.org/pdf/...camera_kit.pdf

Frenchman Roger Dupouy who was a friend of Yanczer and also built his own original design of a 30 line, then 60 line camera and receiver used a 931A multiplier phototube because the solid-state photocell used in the Yanczer design required a huge amount of lighting to achieve proper S/N like in Baird's days.

Roger D's web site has been saved by the ETF:
https://www.earlytelevision.org/dupo...r/a-index.html

All his gear was sold years ago to a Norwegian Museum.

Best Regards
jhalphen
Paris/France

[Notimetolooz]

Yes, a 150W flood lamp at 3 ft from subject is pretty bright!

Although I understand how the two motors would be running at the same speed, I don't see any way from those assembly instructions on how the receiver is synchronized to the camera. Maybe there is a mechanical means to do that in the receiver.

EDIT: On further study of the camera pdf it seems the framing is corrected by trial and error by cutting the motor current on and off until the framing is correct. I would think a finer adjustment would be useful.