US & English/European heating systems.

[dieseljeep]

The last home, I owned in Milwaukee was built in 1959. It's was rare to see a house that new have hot water baseboard heat. I bought it from the original owner. I inquired why it had hot water heat, instead of forced air. The lady said her children had alergies and it was better for them.
The only negatives was the basement was rather cold and air conditioning was a PITA. The house seemed to be insulated, but it was really hot during the summer.

[Electronic M]

Originally Posted by Colly0410

Nottingham city council built a few houses with gas fired warm air heating in the late 70's, they're now replacing them with with gas hot water radiator systems. The residents are complaining as they like their warm air systems. The council say they're worn out & need replacing & warm air is no longer approved..

So does the city currently own those houses? If not, are there really laws that allow government to bully people like that on your side of the pond?

Here in the States pretty much all home maintenance is the responsibility and decision of the owner. One could even have known defective products currently in place and choose not to replace them (though it would become a problem if they sold the house in that state without disclosure of it).

[Colly0410]

Re #17

Yes the council do own them, I forgot to mention that. All rented houses/apartments with any gas appliances need a yearly safety inspection by a gas safe qualified person who issues a certificate. Many private landlords get around this by not having any gas laid on & having all heating/hot water & cooking using electricity, this is very expensive for the tenant.

Old systems in privately owned British houses are still legal, the government advise house owners to have the gas system serviced & safety inspected by a gas safe fitter every year, but there is no compulsion to do so. However if the system blows up the house insurance company may refuse to pay out if no gas safe inspection certificate is up to date..

[N2IXK]

The 100+ year old house I'm in has most of the original hot water radiators. Originally coal fired boiler (found remnants of old coal chute during a renovation a few years ago), replaced with oil fired at some point. Boiler (Weil MCLain Gold series) only a couple years old when I bought the place, but cost of heating oil has me REALLY wanting to convert to gas fired boiler. Already have gas in the house for water heater, dryer, and range. Not sure why the previous owner never converted over. Beyond the fuel cost savings, I would love to be able to expand my basement electronics lab into the space taken up by a big metal oil storage tank.

Replaced one old cast iron radiator with hot water kickspace and baseboard heaters when I redid the kitchen a couple years ago. They work very nicely with the old radiator piping system.

[AUdubon5425]

The norm in New Orleans' older houses was freestanding open gas heaters in each room. These mostly disappeared after Katrina as the city won't clear a gas inspection with those still hooked up. 1930's-1950's many houses were built with gas floor furnaces, often just one in the hall on smaller houses. Also tall narrow wall furnaces weren't uncommon. Central gas heat by the 60's with central electric heat working in. By 1970 most all houses were being built with central a/c. I remember schools having radiators under the windows about 2 feet tall with some type of temp control on the cabinet.

[Olorin67]

if you get rid of oil heat, make sure your filler pipe is blocked off or removed. i heard of a house that changed to gas, then a neighbor ordered an oil delivery, but the crew got the address wrong, and the house got a basement full of oil...

[Olorin67]

I found a book titled the lost art of steam heating, it has photos of an original installation from the late 1850s that is still in use in new england

[Findm-Keepm]

This thread is like twenty seasons of This Old House - I'm learning a lot!!

[bgadow]

The house I grew up in had baseboard electric; it was built in the early 70s, before energy costs started climbing. Later we rented a house with radiant electric heat in the CEILINGS. How's that for inefficient? While I never thought baseboard electric was that warm, it is cheap to install and dead reliable. I have one upstairs room here and put electric in it instead of plumbing hot water. I rarely have to turn it on since it naturally stays warm enough in the winter, but when I do the room heats up fairly quick. That house with the heat in the ceiling? It was very comfortable, but the electric bill wasn't so hot! Once, one of the thermostats stuck on. Amazing how hot the surfaces in that room got. That was one of those "all-electric" homes from the 60s with plenty of gizmos, built by a woman who worked as a secretary for an electrical contractor.

You can still buy pretty much any heating system you want. I just bought a new hotwater register a couple weeks ago. There's a guy here in town that sells coal.

[Colly0410]

I lived in a right mixed up house a couple of decades ago: It had a gas fire in the lounge, a coal fire in the dining room, an electric night storage heater (run on economy 7 electricity) in the hall, an electric radiator in the bedroom & an electric hot water storage tank (also on E7) Oh yeah we also had a portable free standing butane/calor gas heater that we put in the bathroom & heated the kitchen by leaving the gas oven on low with the door open. It totally confused my mother when she came to stay..

[zeno]

Always think of coal & peat on the isles. Coal is still used
hear in NEW England. Fathers cousin used it in a few pot bellied
stoves & wood in a BIG Portland cook stove which was the
main heat. Never got running water til the 80's & also
added a HW heater. Future of coal is bleak. There is someone
that wants to kill the industry. If not he will drive the
cost sky high ! Nuf sed.
Oil is down to abt US$2 so pellets wont save much this year
if you use oil. But that wont last. Someone also wants to
drive fuel costs to Euro prices. After all we are rich greedy
Americans & what we have needs to be spread around. Gotta
be sure the lay-a-bouts & "guest workers" live for free.

73 Zeno

Originally Posted by Colly0410

I lived in a right mixed up house a couple of decades ago: It had a gas fire in the lounge, a coal fire in the dining room, an electric night storage heater (run on economy 7 electricity) in the hall, an electric radiator in the bedroom & an electric hot water storage tank (also on E7) Oh yeah we also had a portable free standing butane/calor gas heater that we put in the bathroom & heated the kitchen by leaving the gas oven on low with the door open. It totally confused my mother when she came to stay..

[dieseljeep]

Originally Posted by Olorin67

if you get rid of oil heat, make sure your filler pipe is blocked off or removed. i heard of a house that changed to gas, then a neighbor ordered an oil delivery, but the crew got the address wrong, and the house got a basement full of oil...

I remember reading about that!
The owner of the home failed to notify the fuel oil supplier, that they converted to Gas heat. They were on the keep-full plan, where the supplier would top-off the tank on a regular basis.
Whoes fault! That's a nasty smell to get rid of, even with a small quanity.

[dieseljeep]

Originally Posted by Colly0410

I lived in a right mixed up house a couple of decades ago: It had a gas fire in the lounge, a coal fire in the dining room, an electric night storage heater (run on economy 7 electricity) in the hall, an electric radiator in the bedroom & an electric hot water storage tank (also on E7) Oh yeah we also had a portable free standing butane/calor gas heater that we put in the bathroom & heated the kitchen by leaving the gas oven on low with the door open. It totally confused my mother when she came to stay..

There was a great explanation of the British heating methods, on the series, The " Secret Life of Machines".
AFAIC, that was one of the best series ever, on British TV.

[maxhifi]

Originally Posted by Olorin67

I found a book titled the lost art of steam heating, it has photos of an original installation from the late 1850s that is still in use in new england

I wonder how many such installations still exist? My great grandparents house (built 1905), still had the original steam system in place in the 80s the last time I was there. At the time it had the original boiler which was converted from coal to gas at some point.

So much as I understand the practical reasons for forced air's popularity, those old steam systems sure were cool! All the cast iron radiators with bakelite knobs on the control valve, the lack of any pumps because the system was steam driven.. the reassuring noises they would make as steam was flowing and then condensed. The exposed pipes in some places which would burn you if you touched them.

Some rooms had the radiators covered by ornate wooden cabinets.. sitting on those in the winter is a good memory. I doubt I will ever fondly remember a forced air heating system in the way I remember that 100+ year old setup!

[Telecolor 3007]

In Romania we have 2 main principal heating sistems:
1) With fuel: luquid fuel (oil and derivates - tar fuel and Diesel fuel), natural gas or solid fuel (coal, cocke, wood or wood residues);
2) With hot water radiators.
In the '30's, there was some tendency by the electric companies (there where many back then) to introduce electric heating (I might put an add one of these days). But after W.W. 2, excepting some cases, the method was abandoned. During communist regime, they produced some electric radiators, but low power, to be used as sumplimentary heating source.

The heating sistems with hot water may be using:
1) A hot water generator, powered by natural gas, installed in apartament (flat) or a house. The ones for apartaments are a recent ideea around here... about 10 yrs ago. For houses are older;
2) Per bulding (in case of schools, office buldings... apartment buldings). At some prewar buldings you can see a small circular lid... that was the place to introduce liquid fuel in the old days. Have on bulding near me that escaped demolition and haves that stuff (almsot all houses in my area that escaped demolition durring communism didn't escaped carbord capitalism demoltion).
But in a country with many earthquaqes isn't a good ideea to have liquid fueled stored in the basement;
3) One bulding to have a generating sistem for up to 5 buldings. Very rarley used;
4) Neiberghood power plant. Extremly rare used. Floreasca neiberghood from Bucharest haves one plant like this;
5) A factory to generate central heating... extremly rare used;
5) Big C.E.T.'s (Centrale Electrice şi Termice = Electric and Thermical Power Plants). The big central heating sistem. Is very efficient... if the pipes are in good condition. If not, there are a lot of leaks and when a pipe brokes, a lot of people are saying bad words (happens to me few times a year). In some cities, this sistem was abandoned for apartament heating sistems.