How long will we be able to buy ATSC-NTSC converter boxes?

[Whirled One]

I just checked SolidSignal.com (where I bought two of the Channel Master CM-7000 boxes a while back), and they still have them in stock ($59.95 + shipping). See:
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...p?prod=CM-7000

[radiotvnut]

Hey Chad, haven't seen you on here in a long time.

Anyway, MAT electronics was advertising (as of a couple weeks ago) repackaged Zenith DTT901's for $39 each plus shipping. I was going to hold off and buy one locally that was in it's original box; but, I guess I'd better take a chance on the MAT electronics Zenith box. They can be found at www.matelectronics.com.

MCM had the Channel Master boxes for, IIRC, $79 + shipping. www.mcmelectronics.com.

It really ticks me off that they are phasing out the converter boxes this soon in the game. Just another way to force people into buying new TV's.

Oh yes, the Apex box is crap. At least the one I got for free was. The Magnavox box is not much better.

[radiotvnut]

Forget MAT on the Zenith. I just checked their website and all they have are the Tivax and RCA brands.

[radiotvnut]

And MCM has the channel master cm7000 priced at $89.95.

Now, I'm going to have to get busy. Presently, I own two Digitalstream boxes, one Magnavox box, and an Apex (junk) box. The Digitalstream boxes are the only ones in use and they are by far the best out of what I have. Mine came from RatShack back in April, '08.

[peverett]

I also have had the best experience with the Digital Stream converters from RS. It is my experience that these have the best reception and produce the least buzz in tube TVs somewhat poor sound systems.

[NowhereMan 1966]

Originally Posted by Chad Hauris

Oh no....I am using the insignia at my downtown building and I really like the features, especially being able to program in an aspect ratio change for a certain channel and have it remember it. This is good for channels where they stretch a 4:3 picture to make it 16:9.
I really need to see if there are any still out there.
I have also not seen many name brand converters recently, they are all brands I have never heard of.

Yeah, I have the Zenith DTT-900/901 boxes which is essentially the same as the Insignia, they are good boxes and I like to change the ratio too, especially when I watch sports.

[MRX37]

I think when I get a convertor box, (probably a digitalstream from Radio Shack unless I can find a Zenith DTT 901) I'm going to pop it open and see if I can replace every lytic cap with Nichicons.

That might add 5, 10 or even 20 years more to the box's life.

[maxm]

I'm surprised to hear that the boxes are already going away, though its been a while since I've been in an electronics store here in Chicago... I do most of my electronics shopping at Salvation Army.

I've bought nothing but the Zenith and Insignia boxes for myself and for my family, I've been very happy with them and am sorry to hear they are discontinued.

I wanted to get a box for my basement TV (1969 Zenith B&W 19" set), which I had kept on analog as long as possible.
I managed to get an Insignia from the people on eBay who resell the returned? stuff from Best Buy for $20 with shipping, it looked new in the box when I got it, and has been working fine.

[electroking]

This discussion makes me wonder what will happen with the (smaller) Canadian
market when the transition hits this country (still officially in
August, 2011).
Will manufacturers be interested in providing converters for this market, or
will we have to import used converters from the U.S.?

One aspect of the problem is as follows: from June, 1970 to some later date,
anyone marketing a 'television set' in Canada had to provide it with capabilities
to receive OTA channels 2-83 (later 2-69). But currently, with the wave of
deregulation we have been experiencing, many so called 'television sets'
come with no tuner at all. It might have been a good idea to mandate the
inclusion of an ATSC tuner on every TV set sold a few years ahead of the
transition, thus most households would now have the capability to receive
digital OTA broadcasts. Just my two cents' worth.

[Arkay]

This thread is a little bit depressing.

Here in Hong Kong, we have cable, broadband, HD digital AND free-to-air television. I get the free-to-air channels and the broadband service. There has been no mention of ending the free-to-air (FTA) services at all; in fact, the government made it a condition of the major stations' broadcast licenses that they HAD TO provide BOTH FTA AND digital programming.

Just today I heard a government API ("announcement in the public interest", a usually silly announcement that the radio stations are required to broadcast from time to time) that warned people NOT to listen to pushy salespeople who implied that you would need a converter box to receive free-to-air signals. There was NO need for a box to receive such signals, in the planned future.

I just wonder, reading threads like this, how long that situation will continue.

It probably helps that for decades, we've only had four FTA channels (two in Chinese, two in English, one of which now does a lot of Mandarin stuff, too). Probably doesn't crowd out too much bandwidth. I'm happy they keep them; they are free, and I can use my Arcam Delta tuner (probably the best TV tuner ever made) and Marantz TV tuners (cool vintage rarities with Marantz "two martini" sound) to get great sound off-the-air, and not just via broadband.

Yet I can see the changes coming, eventually. There is talk of eventually banning traditional incandescent light bulbs here, too. If/when that comes, I'll stockpile several cases/several years' worth of bulbs, enough to last until LED technology gets good enough and available enough.

I'll have to get some kind of set-top boxes, too, if they get rid of the fta channels, but if the horrid decoders they use for the broadband channels are any indication of the quality available, then I won't be happy with them, either. [Mine gets almost too hot to touch, if you turn it off with the remote. I have to cut power to it, to keep it from becoming a fire risk. Sometimes it won't boot up right. I'll get it replaced soon, but I'm getting tired of having them replaced all the time. They usually don't last even a year. Talk about cheap junk! ]

Not sure what I'll ever do if/when I move back to the States. I figure getting 220V off the power grid won't be difficult for my audio gear (which approach I would prefer to using step-down transformers and 110V) but for televisions... Sigh... Oh, well, at least I don't have many vintage TVs.

[drh4683]

Marty, thanks for the link for the channel master. I'll have to pick up a couple from them. As long as I know its NIB and not "unpackaged for testing" like on ebay, I'm happy(er).

I tried out the apex box last night. Its very cheap, the F-61 connectors don't even protrude squarely from the back of the box, and I think the OD must be slightly smaller than it should be as my cables don't connect very securely to them. I do like the conservative plain design of it though, no crazy annoying led's etc to be distracting.

I wasn't too impressed with the channel guide display. The wording is extremely small, as displayed on a 25" Zenith chromacolor. Even then, when you press the arrow keys on the remote, which is also very cheap, its hard to tell what is highlighed because the wording is very light blue, and when the info you've selected is highlighted, its white. Very hard to distingush between what you have highlighed vs. whats displayed on the screen.

The worst part is the sound output is extremely low! With my channel master CM-7000, it put out plenty of sound, same with the zenith/insignia box. I had to crank up the volume on my zenith (25DC56, horizontal solid state chassis) to get a good volume with this apex thing, and yes, the volume was maximum output on the converter box.

Another dissapointment was its ability to receive channels indicating strong signal strength. I have an outdoor antenna w/ rotator. With my LG boxes and the CM box, I can easily get "100%" reception on all of the major networks. With this apex, I'm getting like 80%-85% signal strength, and on other channels, reception is so poor that there is constant pixelation and black outs, which are virtually non-existant on the CM and LG boxes.

Quite a dissapointment. I'll have to pick up one of those digital streams at RS, Ive heard good things about those and from my understanding, they don't get burning hot either.

As I've said before, I like the channel master box best, good quality (not made in china either which is a huge surprise, they're made in Bulgaria so perhaps there was some quality control when they built those) and I like the remote control layout/design.

[drh4683]

I decided to go to a few more stores after work today in search for decent quality converter boxes. I turned up nothing for the most part. I say for the most part because I accidentally ran across a Zenith DTT-901 at radio shack! That was my first stop. I was surprised to see it, the box was rough, but unopened. I asked about it and the guy at the store says he is quite surprized that unit was still in the store. Next to it was a digital stream box. They only had one of each.
I'd say we can confirm the belief that the zenith/insiginal boxes are NLA. The guy even told me that he suggested I get the zenith box, as its a very good unit and they are no longer being made. I asked about the digital stream box as far as them being available in the future. He claimed they would get more, but the zenith I bought this evening would be the last one the store would ever sell.

My next stop was to Wal-Mart. I'm not a big supporter of that store, but I was curious what kind of converters they might carry. I've heard from others that they sell Magnavox and RCA. I exptected to see one of the two. I didn't see anything on the shelf so I asked the guy in the electronics department. Again, "long gone" was the quote. Wal-mart no longer sells DTV converters. The guy tells me "you might get lucky and still find some at best buy". I kind of laughed when the guy told me that. Its like these things are becoming so hard to find that you need "luck" to get one.

I then went to Target. There they had some converters. They had the cheapo Apex box, then next to it was some strange unidentified model. It just said "Digital to Analog Converter" On the actual barcode, was the RCA logo in very small letters. Again, not one indication of RCA on the box, converter itself or remote.

I think I've exhausted all of my resources. I've hit all the big electronics stores, the general merchandise stores. Only thing I can think of is that perhaps lowes or menards might happen to have a few in their audio/video components aisle, but if they did, I'm sure they're the cheapest ones you can get.

Since walmart told me they are no longer being sold, I now believe what the guy at frys told me about their current stock being their last batch to be sold then its over. These things are being obsoleted very quick. I remember earlier this year going to the stores and they literally had the "good" converter boxes stacked in pyramids in the aisles, plenty in stock. Just 3 weeks after the shut down now and basically everyone is phasing them out.

I guess if you are the average "normal customer" who really needed the converter that there should no reason for you to be needing one at this stage as you should have one already. I assume thats how its being looked at by all the big stores and thats why they are all disappearing so fast.

[zenithfan1]

They made them to comfort people and make the "transition" more acceptable. The real plan was to obsolete the old sets altogether, look how hard they are working at just that, all this pushing for recycling and no donation centers taking them to reuse or re-sell. For some reason, they want no CRT sets. Why else would they discontinue the converters so soon? They know there's millions of usable sets out there and people would continue to buy the boxes for at least the next few years. To a poor person, a 40 dollar box is a hell of a lot easier to buy than a whole new tv(if you want to call them that).

[Jeffhs]

Originally Posted by zenithfan1

They made them to comfort people and make the "transition" more acceptable. The real plan was to obsolete the old sets altogether, look how hard they are working at just that, all this pushing for recycling and no donation centers taking them to reuse or re-sell. For some reason, they want no CRT sets. Why else would they discontinue the converters so soon? They know there's millions of usable sets out there and people would continue to buy the boxes for at least the next few years. To a poor person, a 40 dollar box is a hell of a lot easier to buy than a whole new tv(if you want to call them that).

The boxes are still available on eBay, even if one cannot find them new. I think what a lot of folks are doing is, first, getting a converter box for their old TV, then, when they decide to get a flat-panel with an ATSC/QAM tuner, they put the box on eBay and (hopefully) get their investment back.

As to the push for recycling of old TVs, that explains why I haven't seen any old sets or even defective FPs on the curbs or treelawns lately here in my small town. The last old set I remember seeing on a curb here was a 1978 RCA color console on the next street over from my apartment, and that was several years ago; since then, nothing. I thought after the DTV transition, I'd be seeing quite a few analog sets from the '80s-'90s being put out for the trash, after their owners found out they didn't work anymore just using an antenna (remember those early DTV-transition warnings back about five years ago that said "your television will go black in four years and you will have to get a new one", before ATSC/NTSC converters were available?)--but it hasn't happened that way. That was, IMHO, one flaw in the public education campaign for DTV: even with all the public service announcements, warnings as the DTV "hard date" drew nearer and nearer, and even that half-hour-long DTV education program produced by the NAB (I saw it on one of the local stations in Cleveland, and it was very well made; my hat is off to the NAB for a job very well done), there were, are and always will be people out there who refuse to believe that television has changed to this new thing called digital, and who will never understand why their old sets will not work at all simply with an antenna.

BTW, whomever came up with that DTV transition video on YouTube of the elderly lady trying to get her old analog TV to work with a converter box really had a good sense of humor, and knew how to make light of what many people in the television industry thought was a very serious problem as the DTV "hard date" drew closer. I saw this video and nearly laughed my head off when I saw the TV's remote in the lady's microwave, not to mention the remark she made: "Will all this stuff bring Jack Benny back?" And that mess of wires behind her TV . . . I wonder if she ever got her set to work after all that. Hmmm.

[peverett]

Lawrence Welk never went away. He is still broadcast on the PBS station here.