Just one month left of analog NTSC (again)

[radiotvnut]

What I may look into is pulling the guts out of a DTV converter box and stuffing them inside a smaller screen TV, if space permits. I'd like to do something like that to my 3.5" 30+ year old Panasonic (the current "emergency" TV); but, I don't think that would work. A 12" set would be the only thing I might could do that to.

Another channel that's virtually a "no go" now is channel 34 (CW) out of, IIRC, Magee, MS. When they were analog, I could get them on most any given TV at any given time of day with an indoor antenna. The quality was never good; but, watchable. With the digital signal, all I usually get is "weak signal" on that channel while the signal meter hovers around 10-15 %. One time, I held the antenna up in the air and got the signal up to around 25%, enough to give me a severly pixilated image. An outdoor antenna may or may not help the situation.

Of course, this is not a big deal right now since I have cable. May not have it for very long if Comcast does not get their act together concerning the internet. I've fired them once and am not above doing it again. Once I hooked my Sister and Brother-in-law up to a DTV box and he saw that he could get 7-8 clear channels, he said he'd never go back to pay TV again.

[richms]

I would rather have LTE mobile data then old reruns on analog tv any day.

Here in NZ our analog switchoff isnt till at least 2012, 2015 at the latest (when 75% of homes are not watching analog they will set the date - its about 70% at the moment depending on who you believe)

But I find it hard to believe that the digital is harder to recieve then analog - at a friends place with a mountain in the way to the transmitter and a corroded UHF antenna thats done nothing for the last 8 years, and dodgey RG59 cables from the $2 shop, it gets one of the mux's perfectly - and thats an antenna system that just delivers tinted snow on any of the analog channels. Either you have way low power digital transmissions or ATSC just really really sucks compared to DVB-T.

[Robert Grant]

Originally Posted by Dave1384

Three of mine will be quitting..
The taxpayers pay for PBS and it won't come in. There you have it.

Us who watch PBS are smart enough and motivated enough to have adapted already!

Note that most PBS stations have already switched early - Flint, Detroit, Toledo and Bowling Green, around here, for example.

[wa2ise]

Originally Posted by richms

Here in NZ our analog switchoff isnt till at least 2012, 2015 at the latest (when 75% of homes are not watching analog they will set the date - its about 70% at the moment depending on who you believe)

But I find it hard to believe that the digital is harder to receive then analog

You have COFDM for the RF modulation method, we in the USA have 8VSB. COFDM is more forgiving of ghosting and such, but needs higher power for the same coverage area. COFDM also tends to have dynamic range issues as well (it has 2000 carriers being switched on and off, and sometimes all turn on, overloading the station's broadcast transmitter amplifier, or TV set front ends). 8VSB doesn't like ghosts.

The Funny Cookie Corporation has just allowed an enhancement to ATSC for mobile receivers (cell phones and such), that may solve the portable receiver not working during a tornado problem.

[dr.ido]

They've only just started running ads about the analog switch off here which is coming sometime in 2010 for some areas and as late as 2013 in others.

I've thought about building an digital set top box into some of my portable sets. I found one that is small enough that I should be able to get it inside one of my 5" sets and another that should fit in one of my 10" sets. The thing that is holding my back is that I've yet to think of an acceptable way to connect the sets existing channel buttons to the set top box. I think I'll have to use a microcontroller to scan the buttons on the set and send the appropriate commands to the set top box. Ideally I'd like to disable the set top box's on screen display, but I don't think that will be possible.

The set top boxes I've set aside for this project are powered by an external 12V power supply, so that will simplifiy things and allow the finished sets to run from 12VDC as the originally did. It's somewhat academic though reliable digital reception is not possible here with rabbit ears.

[wilkes85]

Fortunately for Canadians, they're not switching to DTV until 2011. If any Americans live along the border and can pick up Canadian TV stations...
first, if you get CBC then I'm so sorry lol
Second, at least you can pick up analogue TV for a little while longer.

[zenith2134]

Hiya wilkes, how are ya?

Don't care for CBC? LOL.

[peverett]

The FCC should solve the tornado problem before turning off analog. About 10 years ago, 30 people were killed 50 miles north of here by and F5 tornado. Those were the ones that were above ground. Many were saved by being in an underground shelter. As it happened near dusk, some indication of bad weather could have been seen without any TV warnings, so I am not sure what the reason for the 30 people being above ground.

Just imagine how many more would have been killed if this had happened in later in the evening and the TV warnings crapped out. (I also think the weather radio system should be improved so that only true warnings(not warnings and watches) could be selected. This could vastly improve overnight weather radio usage.)

[Jeffhs]

The FCC cannot "solve the tornado problem" anywhere in this country. Weather events are natural phenomena, out of the hands of people here on earth. If a tornado touches down anywhere, there won't be a thing the FCC can do to stop it. Moreover, the FCC has decided to shut down analog TV on June 12, notwithstanding the problems this may cause in emergencies such as hurricanes, tornadoes, etc. This time the analog shutoff date is all but set in stone and will not be pushed back again, problems or no problems with emergency information. As I have said before in at least one post, there will always be the Emergency Alert System on radio to disseminate emergency information if TV stations are knocked off the air or power outages occur, preventing ordinary TVs from operating.

The end of analog TV is not the end of emergency communications. Moreover, many amateur radio operators are members of emergency networks such as Skywarn, RACES (the latter being a acronym for Radio Amateur Civil Emergency Service) and other disaster networks, the purposes of which are to provide communications services in the event of an emergency. Radio amateurs have been instrumental in providing emergency communications links during every hurricane that has struck the U.S. in recent years--one example is during Hurricane Andrew in the Miami area seventeen years ago, another is during Hurricane Katrina along the Gulf Coast in 2005, and there are other examples too numerous to mention.

My point is that television is not the American public's only link to the outside world during emergencies. When (not if) the FCC declares the end of analog TV in just under one month, there will always be radio, its shortcomings notwithstanding. Even without being able to see radar scans over radio, some emergency information is better than none at all.

Another person mentioned a few posts ago that free AM and FM radio will end in this country shortly after the end of analog television. I don't believe that will happen any time soon. Many AM stations are going silent and transferring their programming to FM stations, so we can expect FM radio to continue in this country for some time; however, it is entirely possible that AM radio may disappear eventually. When and if it does fade into oblivion I don't think it will be much of a loss, as all that's on AM in most cities is talk radio and sports--and much of that programming is migrating to FM in some areas these days. Many FM stations now have digital subchannels, but their main signals are still on the air and will be for the foreseeable future. There are too many analog FM receivers and tuners (millions) in the United States--car stereos, portables, home systems--for analog FM to disappear now as analog TV will shortly. While it is true that more and more people are listening to Internet radio, satellite radio and mp3s these days rather than to FM broadcasts, there are still enough listeners to the nation's FM stations to keep them on the air.

Note that there are far more AM stations going silent than FMs; the reason is that few people (except talk-radio fans and sports junkies) listen to AM anymore, with more listeners (especially to serious music) preferring FM. (As an example, New York's WQXR, a classical station, now broadcasts over FM exclusively; its former AM arm is now Radio Disney WQEW-AM 1560.) As I said, many AM talk stations have moved their programming to FM or else are simulcasting their programming over the FM station (a sports station in Detroit, for example, WXYT 1270, has done just that, simulcasting all its material over the former WWJ-FM, now WXYT-FM 97.1). A hard-rock FM station in Cleveland has all but abandoned music programming (in large part) as well, now carrying mostly talk.

What may become of the 107 channels of the AM broadcast band in the future is anyone's guess. The stations already in operation there, except perhaps for all-news stations the likes of WCBS-AM in New York, et al. may or may not be around for much longer. I must question the decision of some cities to have two sports stations, as do Chicago (WSCR-670, formerly WMAQ-AM, and WMVP-1000, formerly WCFL) and even Cleveland (WKNR-850, 50kW day/4.7kW night, and WWGK-AM 1540, 1kW day only). Both stations carry roughly the same programming, so why have it on both at the same time? The situation in Cleveland makes even less sense, to me anyway. WWGK 1540 is a 1kW station that covers mainly the city of Cleveland and perhaps a couple of nearby suburbs; WKNR, with its 50kW daytime signal, covers much of Ohio (including Cleveland and environs, of course) from dusk to dawn, has excellent coverage in the greater Cleveland area at night as well, and is an affiliate of the ESPN radio network. WWGK 1540 is an affiliate, IIRC, of Fox's sports radio network. Because of these widely varying coverage areas (and the fact that WWGK is daytime only), I question how both of these stations can survive. While there may be no doubt WKNR will be around a long time, with its 50kW daytime signal, the other station may be doomed to failure because of its low power and being daytime only. I sometimes wonder why WWGK has not gone silent already.

[peverett]

I do not expect the FCC to "solve" any tornado problem. What I do expect them to do is to act in the public's interest as the airwaves are public property. I, for one, do not think shuting off analog TV in areas that are known to experience severe weather regularly is in the public interest. It is well known (and has been expressed by many here and elsewhere) that DTV as presently implemented in the US is very much less reliable than NTSC analog in severe weather conditions.

In spite of all of the other ways that have been mentioned as to spread emergency information-TV is the main one used by the public at this time. In addition, there are many NTSC analog TVs that run on battery power-I have not yet seen any DTV sets with this feature. If a battery operated TV is available-receiver power is not an issue.

Because of this change-much of which I preceive to be driven by greed, not the interest of the public, I fear that unnecessary injuries and possibly deaths will occur.

One final comment-I agree that FM radio will not go silent.

[Hifirob2]

This conversion process is such a mixed bag of "stuff".

I love the amazing picture on my 27" Mitsubishi CRT.

I love the digital sound - really - it is so much better that cable. Frighteningly good.

I love the extra stations I now get - especially the PBS ones.

I love that a dollar store pair of rabbit ears indoors picks up 90% of the stations. I have an A-B switch to use the roof antenna if need be (hello ABC? are you ONLY ones broadcasting your digital signal over VHF in LA?)

I hate that my neighbor upstairs can ruin an episode of Family Guy simply by walking around too much. And don't get me started about the wind, helicopters, and low flying planes screwing with my picture.......and channel 13 is STILL nowhere to be found......no big loss there.

ok, I feel better now. I need a record.......

Rob

[wa2ise]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

The FCC cannot "solve the tornado problem" anywhere in this country.

Knew that that deregulation in the 1980's was a bad idea... And they need to do something about trailer parks, as they are tornado magnets...

Anyway, as someone mentioned the idea of planting a converter box inside an existing TV set, I've done that with a set that used to be a TV/VCR combo unit. The VCR part died, but the CRT portion worked well, so I installed the converter box where the VCR mechanism was. But this example is not portable or battery powered.

[Donsteleviso]

I have four converter boxes and I have a lot of TV’s scattered all over my display room. So to connect them I would have to have a lot of cable, splitters and possibly a distribution amplifier. The alternative would be to move the converter to the television set I want to play. I have a simple solution that will cost you about $30 and all you will need is rabbit ears at the sets you want to play often.
Searching the internet on Google I found an antenna mounted amplifier that produces 30db gain made by Antennacraft. Searching again, I found a retailer Reliant Electronics and purchased the unit. Upon receipt, I connected the output
of the GE converter box to the antenna connection of the amplifier. Then using the diagram, I connected the output of the amplifier to a piece of copper wire vertically oriented. I turned on my RCA 621 set to channel 4 and using a pair of
rabbit ears picked up the signal being transmitted by the amplifier. Amazingly the
signal provided an excellent picture and sound from approximately 10 feet away.
I am going to make a permanent installation in the center of the area where my sets are displayed. Don’t think you will have an FCC problem with this low power. Try it, you might like it.

[Sandy G]

Well, I wish to register a complaint...About a week & a half ago here, we had a Tornado come thru. Or at least a funnel cloud. Depends on who you talk to. Some folks say they saw a funnel cloud, I didn't. Anyhow, the local radio stations, WRGS 1370 KC, & the FM station, they've changed their call letters again for the umpteenth time, I can't remember, I think they're WEYE, 104.3 Mc, both of them are "fully automated", & consequently, we got NOTHING as far as updates on the tornado-just the usual canned, "Blah-blah-blah" reports at the regular newstimes. Other than that, they kept pumpin' out the inane Kuntry-Lovin' hits...Kinda wish the tornado had come by & blown them away, for all the good they did..."Public Service", my ass... Next year-or even after June, if we get another tornado, we could be blown away, & if the lights get knocked out-as they usually are-how would we know if one's coming ? I still say this is about the most stupid jerkoff trick the boneheads in Warshington have ever dreamed up... An' they're masters at coming up w/jerkoff tricks...

[PioneerGuy75]

I have heard that (around here anyway) that the transition will not apply to "low-power" stations. I am thinking that this is "independent" stations as they have not switched yet.

So there might be hope to have a few analog stations for a little while longer!

I have been watching digital for a year now and I am generally impressed.
A few stations here have already turned off the analog.