Awesome dump score: UK spec portable tv!!

[Carmine]

Maybe so, but they [mitsubushi] DID make some SORRY engines! Like the 3.0 v6 in the late 80's Chrysler products. that was a LOSER, i have seen ,and heard of MANY of them that were DEAD, by the time 100k miles came around.

Maybe you didn't see the little laughing smiley RCA 2000, but that was sarcasim. For anybody involved in the auto industry, the idea of a high-quality Mitsubishi car is laughable.

Which of course illustrates the problem. The public at large is sold on the idea of high-quality foreign products on the basis of names like Toyota, Honda and Sony. With an occasional exception, this reputation is deserved. However, since we are a melting-pot nation that prefers not to deal with "details", we tend to paint things and people with broad strokes. So we forget the crummy Suzukis, Isuzus, and Gold Stars.

Rather than say "Sony builds a good TV", people say "Japanese TVs are good". Of course, the other side of this coin is "American made TVs are bad.", pretty soon it just becomes "Foreign stuff is better".

What makes the the statement of:

electronics made anywhere other than in the US are significantly better

...laughable at best, is the idea that US and Asian electronics were ever really competing in the market at the same time. We all know that most US brands started using foreign parts around the same time foreign sets started catching on, not years later. First in the cheaper B&W portables, then in color sets. For this statement to be even slightly true, you would need to compare (for example) a Chicago-built Zenith color set from around 1964 to a color Sony from the same era. What? You say there were no roundie color Sony sets back then? Hmmm, maybe we should compare grandad's old Zenith to a solid-state Sony color set from the 70s. That's fair, right?

Of course the idea of "anywhere" beside the US is stupid too, since I'd be pretty surprised to find an African, Russian or Chinese set from the 60s/70s/80s that was built better than its US counterpart. Sorry but when when you make such a broad statement, it sure does sound like you've got an axe to grind with your countymen.

So tell me Mr. Anywhere-but-US, why does the rest fo the world do it better than US? You clearly consider Angelo, Asian and Germanic goods to be superior (even if you can only offer stories from yer buddies). Thus it can't be that part of America that you dislike.... Are our corporations somehow greedier and more evil that those in other nations? Reading a foreign newspaper filled with corruption and corporate cover-ups wouldn't seem to indicate this.... hmmm, must just be something about "those" American workers.

You see, I am not a bigot. I have no problem admitting that many foreign products are better than certain American products. The reverse is also true. I don't consider any particular race or nation's people to be better or worse than Americans. I don't judge based on the actions of a few. I take the time to judge individuals, (products or people) and don't make blanket statements.

I share your interest and fascination for "foreign" products, not because I automatically consider them superior, but simply because they are different and I like to see other takes on product design.

BTW, Volvo's primary safety innovation was the shoulder safety belt. The first Swedish-spec Volvos to use it did so WITHOUT any lap belt. Shoulder belts alone practically guaranteed a neck injury in a crash. These early models were soon recalled. However, you can thank Chrysler (1974) for being the first manufacturer to install inertia-reel "uni-belts" (three point). This style of belt is the standard to this day.

That is, unless you were implying that when Volvo propped-up the roof of a sedan with 4x4s and cut the roof supports on other vechicles during an infamous TV commerical during the 80s as a safety feature?

Volvo story, Sixth paragraph

I guess I shouldn't voice my opinions anymore...

Boo-Hoo. Playing the 1st amendment marter doesn't impress me. Opine all you wish, just don't expect me to sit by silently.

[Sandy G]

I think the rot set in when corporations en masse started worshipping the cost accountants & stock analysts, decided that a good 6-months earnings report was more important than making quality PRODUCT. Then some bright cost accountant decreed that "Our Widgets can be made 25-30% cheaper" in (insert name of bugaboo country here) & you have the situation today. There is no way RCA, w/their vast research & development resources, should have been beaten by a poor compny like Sony-but that's what happened. Imagine the world if RCA or Zenith had had the foresight to come out w/a transistor set like the 8-301 Siony in 1960- there might be a domestic home electronics industry here. And Lucky-Goldstar would have their hind ends kicked back to Korea where they belong. -Sandy G.

[wa2ise]

Most DVD players can be switched from NTSC to PAL mode, and assuming that the UK has a TV channel near the American channel 3 or 4, you could use a video modulator to get it to drive that TV. Oh, the sound modulator's carrier frequency will need to be changed from 4.5MHz to something like 5.5Mhz... At that point you could also modify its picture carrier to match a UK channel.

As for power, if you happen to have a large air conditioner power outlet in the room that has 250V@15 or 20 amps, you could run the TV off that. 60Hz shouldn't make any difference to it. Don't use a dryer or electric stove outlet, too much amperage available if a short circuit happens.


As for American quality, we build the world's best nuke bombs....

[andy]

I'm too young to have seen it first hand, but from what I've seen companies like Sony and Panasonic beat companies like RCA and Zenith by producing better products. I'm pretty sure they were significantly more expensive than their American counterprats, but people wanted TVs that worked for years between repairs. No American company bothered to make a VCR, instead they just slapped their names on Japanese VCRs. By the 80's RCA and Zenith were way behind. They didn't make any of the new high tech devices such as VCRs and CD players. The inside of a Zenith TV from 1986 reminds me of a Sony from 1976 with it's many boards, dozens of connectors and a mass of wires connecting everything together. Zenith and RCA came up with lots of great ideas even in the 80's, and their products were good, but not as good.

I think a lot of it may have been because all the best engineers were leaving consumer electronics to make things like computers. America is still a leader in many areas such as computer technology. It's like we got bored with designing and making TVs.

How true or not the following is I really don't know, but offer it as an interesting comment......I remember hearing someone say that American TVs were designed and built with the requirement of a TV repairman having to set it up initially and then be available for service....whereas the foreign (Jap) stuff was built to be basically plug n'play/idiot proof.

Dunno how much of any of that is true, but it kinda sorta does look that way (at least in the pre-solid state days).

Please don't shoot this messenger, am not slamming American goods! LOL

Anthony

[Carmine]

Anthony I won't shoot any messengers here, but I think you're missing the point...

At one time, TVs were a complicated household appliance... Much the same way that a central A/C unit is today. You wouldn't expect the average Joe to drag one of those home and be chillin' in an hour?

Back in the days when American sets were the only game in town, you would likely need to re-set purity, convergence after shipping. Then maybe sell the customer a decent antenna. Sorry, but the technology for "plug and play" just didn't exist back then.

By the time that Japanese sets came on the scene in the later, they were selling 99% hybrid color portables (vs. big monster consoles). How can you fairly compare the two eras? I can't imagine a 19" Zenith SS table model from the 70s requiring a whole bunch of set-up... In fact I know it didn't, because I can remember my parents loading one into our '70 Dodge Dart at Fretter's in 1975. That "piece of inferior junk" lasted us until 1984 without trouble, and then we only got rid of it for a remote Sylvania (the Zenith went to the basement and later a relatives cottage). The NAP Sylvania, which I suspect was full of Japanese ICs lasted 6-years, until it became useless. They switched back to Zenith in '90, and that set is still in my living room (albeit in a rather differnt cabinet).

IF American-branded sets from the 70s were still being set up in the home, it was largely because television servicemen/dealers were the primary retailers of these traditional brands, not do-it-yourself stores like Best-Buy, etc.

[bgadow]

I remember reading repeatedly in the 80s that the Japanese patentholders for vcr's would not allow them to be licensed for manufacture in the US. I'm not sure of all the specifics. I also remember when an American company, GO Video, came out with the dual deck VCR and it was noteworthy because they somehow were able to license the technology, but then they still didn't make them here but in Korea or someplace.

Relibability of most 70s solid state sets can be amazing. Many, many RCA's and Zeniths still plugging away today. There were some junk ones, though, and that helped the Asian companies get a foothold. Lots of the earlier Japanese stuff comes across to me as junk-lots of hybrids with odd tubes, thats my limited experience, anyway.

To further get off subject, I don't think an American company could survive making tv sets these days without some terrible, terrible tariffs imposed by the government. I suspect that the $99 specials from China that WalMart sells would cost around $299 (assuming all parts came from the states and it was assembled here), only on higher-line sets (HDTV, big screens) might the US be at all competitive.

[peverett]

A few years back, I saw a TV show about how the Japanese took the US TV market. The essentially sold sets below manufacturing cost through Sears, etc. At that time US tv quality was as good or better than theirs. The courts actually ruled in the US manufacturers favor, against Sears, the Japanese and others, but by then it was to late.

It does not matter as this point, the manufacturing of TVs had moved past Japan into other countries. I

As far as cars, the US did have a problem in the 1970s, early 1980s, but I believe that they are much closer to the Honda, Toyota today. What I do not appreciate about any of the car manufacturers is the extensive use of cheap plastic. My wife's care has plastic wheel covers which began breaking at 5 years and a plastic/aluminum radiator that started seeping in cold weather about the same time. At the same time, I have a 27 year old Mustang (from the 1970s) which has the original metal hubcaps and original brass radiator that has never leaked.

They put all that nice fuel injection and antilock brake electronics in the car and then put junk plastic parts on them!!!!.

Carmine, I wasn't so much missing the point (some genes maybe LOL) but was just relaying some silly tripe I had heard. What you say about the state of the art way back when makes all the sense in the world. Just makes you wonder how much longer though that the industry (American) might've stayed with tubes if it wasn't for competition.....UNFAIR competition I might add.

It's fairly well known at this point (although seems to have been largely forgotten by the younger generation) that Japan industry and government work hand in hand. Ever hear of the term Japan Inc? That means their gov't directly subsidizes the research and manufacturing as well as assists in allowing their companies to literally dump their product on other countries at below cost for the sole reason of decimating the local manufacturers so that they may ultimately take over the entire supply side.

Paranoid? Nein. Just look how things have played out. It's text book. The moment Fair Trade was repealed in the early/mid 70's sales of Jap electronics went ballistic.

peverett, you mention car interior plastics.....for the longest time I've suspected that as some of the plasticizers evaporate that they may cause cancer. There are some reports now that are leaning in that direction. One thing is for certain though, some of these plastics allow mold to form in the HVAC with detrimental results. http://www.fordlemon.com/ There's a cute animation that's kinda worth the load time (I have dial up, yuck)

Anthony

[domfjbrown]

Originally posted by Sandy G
Yeah-I remember the 1st time I went to England-in '74- & saw a gen-u-wine Brit "telly", I thought to myself-"Man! sure does look like the pitcher toob could be busted easily in this thing. Would never go back home."(I was a TV nut at an early age.) It was a Pye, IIRC...

He he - good old Pye - they're a Philips "cheapo" brand, and I think they're still making Pye stuff today, though it's rare... I bet the one you saw was a Pye "Studiocolour" - we rented this holiday flat, one week each summer for a while, and that had a 21inch Studiocolour that was pretty damn good - far superior to my folks' rented (they RENTED until 1994!!!) "Baird" (made by JVC I think) TV...

I bet you were just like the family in National Lampoons' (Easter?) Vacation - when they end up in the dodgy London hotel courtesy of Pig and a Poke, and the son goes "This telly's bust - there's only 4 channels!". Mind you, in 74 you'd have only had 3!!!

I don't get it - with terrestrial here, we have 5 channels now. And they're all invariably rubbish. There's maybe an hour's worth of programming on BBC 1, and the odd good thing on BBC 2. Forget ITV. And Channel 5. Channel 4 has it's moments, barring Big Brother

I went to the US in 1992, and, even with all that damn advertising (and, don't kill me, but I can't get on at ALL with Never The Same Color pictures - even with the more stable image 60Hz provides) I was loving it - especially since you could get McGyver a year ahead of what we got in the UK. Mind you, they axed it in the UK before we'd have seen the same episode there

One thing though - why oh WHY do we always have news of the US elections, but they said diddly squat about ours? Mind you, if I'd found out that the Tory muppets had got back in again in 1992, I'd have probably had a ruined remainder of the holiday

BTW - talk about cars (US or otherwise) is lost on me, but I'll stick up for Mitsubishi TVs and Panasonic VHS machines; my old school (left at 18 in 1993) still has a 1978 toploader Panasonic in daily use (only had 2 services) and they also have a mid 70s Mitusbishi TV in daily use. My folks' Mitsubishi (the one they finally BOUGHT to replace that damn rental thing!) is still going strong a decade later, and has never been serviced.

[andy]

Mitsubishi TVs really weren't that bad, but they were hit really hard in the early 90's with defective caps. Those TVs often have 1/3 of their electrolytics leaking and who knows if you can trust the rest of them. Mitsubishi VCRs were among the worst in the 80's. They had tons of belts and never seemed to work properly.

[Carmine]

Wow, I guess this thread has gone everywhere from free-trade to stinky car plastics!!

domfjbrown: As a McGyver fan, you might like to know that the term "McGyver'ed" lives on today in American slang. As in: "You really Mcgyver'ed-up that old TV set with a bunch of incorrect tubes and parts, but at least it works" OR... "How did you get out of that locked car trunk? Are you freakin' McGyver?" (I know this one through personal experience... Don't ask!)

I can also identify with watching shows months behind when they are seen in their home country. What's my dirty secret??

I'm a Coronation Street fan. I catch it across the border from Canada, albiet 6 months late!

I remember a local electronics dealer sold Grundig TV sets here with that exposed CRT design. Looked like an accident waiting to happen!

On a similar note, re-badged garbage from China... I was at BedBath&Beyond yesterday, and they were selling a "Grundig" AM/FM/SW radio for $40!! Total piece of junk, with poorly screen-printed dials and crooked, flimsy switches. A real shame... Even made my wife (who is German) a little sad. I guess for her it was like me seeing the Zenith name on a set of flimsy $2.99 headphones.

[domfjbrown]

Originally posted by Carmine
OR... "How did you get out of that locked car trunk? Are you freakin' McGyver?" (I know this one through personal experience... Don't ask!)

I can also identify with watching shows months behind when they are seen in their home country. What's my dirty secret??

I'm a Coronation Street fan. I catch it across the border from Canada, albiet 6 months late!

Oh GAWD - not Corrie - Mind you, nice eye candy in the Rovers Yum yum... Even fitter than the barmaids in Eastenders - he he!

My folks also have a Mitsubishi video - and yeah, it's a PITA. Sometimes it won't load tapes, but that said, it's never chewed up, never needed servicing (they barely use it so it's a decade old and hasn't had a head clean - oops!) and the performance is still very good. I'll have to clean it at some point I guess

Grundig... Hmmph. I DO have a 1967 Grundig valve (tube) radio in my folks' loft. It worked last time I used it, but has no FM, just AM. I reckon there must be an additional module that came out for it 'cos it has an FM wave on the dial, but doesn't even produce static when switched to FM. Nice sound last time I heard it working though (1991 I think!). Oh, it also has an aux input and a speaker out - wander if that old 1936 speaker my grandad made would work on it?

[Sandy G]

You can still see Richard Dean Anderson in all his smart-ass glory on Stargate SG-1. He doesn't fix the universe w/a pocketknife & a bottlecap, but almost. I wonder what he's like in real life...but I always wanted to meet Dr Smith-Jonathan Harris- & see if he was as big of a pompous ass as he was on TV. Sadly, he died last year. Oh, the pain, the pain !!!-Sandy G.

[andy]

Has anyone watched a Mcgyver recently? I couldn't help but laugh at how inaccurate most of his "science" was. One of my favorites was when he was fixing a stereo with "the speakers out of phase" by adjusting the trimmers on the tuning cap.