This could be the end of consumer electronic repair

[Celt]

Here's the reverse side of the coin. A few months ago I was brought a cheap (<$100) Chinese Fender amp. It was out of warranty, two of the three plastic jacks had fallen apart, a PCB mounted 250k pot's plastic shaft was sheared off and it was filthy inside and out. The customer wanted it fixed regardless of cost. Well, the crap-jax are something I keep in-stock because they ALWAYS fail. The pot model was only used on a few amps and had been discontinued and it took six weeks to get a replacement; having to be special ordered. I also had to buy a set of six knobs to replace the one that was missing. Anyway, parts were available for it, the amp wasn't hard to service. But the customer is going to spend in repairs about what he paid for the amp brand new. To him it was worth it and I applaud him for not throwing it away...but was it wise for him to have it repaired?

[nasadowsk]

Even major appliances these days aren't built to last - years ago, you got 15 - 25 years out of a clothes washer, and at least 10 were trouble free. Today, you're lucky to go 3 years without a breakdown, and they're scrap by 5.

Speaking of which, GE's spinning off their lightbulb and appliance divisions because they "aren't profitable enough". IMHO, GE's going the way of Westinghouse, - in 15 years, all that'll be left is the nuke division (whoops - sold to Hitachi already - ironically, the Japanese own Westinghouse and GE's nuke divisions now).

Though frankly, the sooner GE dies, the better. IMHO, they're right behind Wal-Mart and GM in terms of representing everything that's wrong with US business right now.

[slow_jazz]

I agree it's very sad.... Such a throwaway society....

[Bill R]

The letter from Loud Technologies was the final straw that made me close up the service center. No warning just out of the blue this letter comes making it sound like they were doing me a favor. They closed all the warrenty claim accounts, and closed the parts accounts. Oh they would sell me parts, but I had to prepay for them. Most of the equipment had deteriated to chinese junk anyway, and some was just not serviceable. I asked for the schematics for a small powered mixer once and they sent me 4 different schemes. None of which matched the mixer. I put it back in the box and told them to send it back to china. Fender was usually not hard to work on, but the warrenty process had gotten very picky. Parts were avaliable, but the new amps were just not very high quality. Line 6 was very easy to work with, but since I was not an official service center for them, they would not send me service manuals. They did however provide me with the tech line phone number, and would stay with me any time I had a problem with a customers amp. They always sent me any parts to complete the repair, usually no charge, even if it was out of warrenty. Around here though it was Fender, SLM, and Peavey gear that was sold the most. I did service some Yorkville gear, and their warrenty claim process was a breeze. They just said fix it and send us the bill. No fuss no muss. They always paid promptly. Warrenty work for them was rare since most of their gear was built well and serviceable. I havn't seen a lot of the new stuff, so I don't know about their quality now.

Bill R

[merrylander]

Part of the problem is that when yoiu call customer service you are usually speaking to someone in India and they don't always understand technical terms.

[Ultra-Hog]

My future son in law plays in a rock band. He has an old Peavy amp that has seen many, many miles and years of use, abuse and neglect on the road as well as many coats of stale beer on the case. Some of the controls were getting noisy and one of the small control shafts was sheared off. I took it apart and cleaned the controls but I couldn't find a replacement pot for the broken one anywhere that I looked. The last resort was to call Peavy customer service. After giving the model number and serial number to the real live English speaking person that answered the phone I was told that the pot was $2.25 (if I remember correctly) and the knob was $1.00. When I asked how much shipping and handling would be she said that they don't charge their customers for S&H. I had the parts a few days later. Wow!

The only reason that I mention this is that, sadly, my experience with Peavy stands out as an extremely rare and unusual occurrence these days but there are still a few companies that still get it and understand how valuable that kind of service is. It was Made in the USA too! (It's really a sad comment that even mentioning that is noteworthy.)

[Arkay]

All of this reflects the relentless pursuit of "build it cheaper, so long as it meets the minimum requirements" mentality that has driven business competition in recent decades. Years ago, companies competed by building in quality that they could shout about in ads, to attract customers. Then one day OPEC, stagflation and belt-tightening came along, followed very closely by the WalMart effect... and the world will never be the same. Hammering down the cost of production, even at the expense of quality, became the world's business mantra, because that is what consumers have voted for, every time they (=WE) have decided to buy from WalMart (or almost any companies that remained in competition with them!).

It is a mixed blessing: more people can own more appliances and goods today than ever before in the planet's history...but gone are the days of over-engineered products like the 70s (and earlier) audio gear we talk so much about around here.

Individually, we can do little to change it, beyond:

(1)Where you see someone still trying to offer REAL quality, or someone still doing traditional repairs to keep stuff going, SUPPORT them, even if it means spending a few dollars more.

(2)When you can, buy quality stuff from yesteryear and refurbish it. Just today I found a seriously heavy-duty vacuum cleaner with a solid steel casing (it rolls around on solid casters). I will rebuild it, add a level of filtration and "upgrade" my much more modern plastic-housed vacuum to this decades-old model that should outlive me!

(3) Just accept it (like most people do) and keep buying the new stuff and throwing it out when it breaks in a year or two. In other words, stifle your disgust, silence your conscience and be "normal" like (almost) everyone else.

[mr_fixer]

I, the Great Carnak also known as mr_fixer do hereby predict. That in the future you will have to buy multiple quantities of household goods in order to get at least one that works out of the box. I have spoken! Logan

[mhardy6647]

I believe that the current model for consumer electronics is predicated on the notion that the state of the art in "technology" advances so rapidly that there is no need to build durable electronic gear. Why would someone want to repair a piece of obsolete (roughly, more than 9 months old) equipment?

On the other hand: you could buy a new production 2A3 (direct heated triode power output tube) in the 1940s, and you can still buy a new production 2A3 today. :-)

[merrylander]

... at a slight difference in cost.

[mhardy6647]

well, yeah, but there's been inflation...

[radiotvnut]

Originally Posted by Ultra-Hog

My future son in law plays in a rock band. He has an old Peavy amp that has seen many, many miles and years of use, abuse and neglect on the road as well as many coats of stale beer on the case. Some of the controls were getting noisy and one of the small control shafts was sheared off. I took it apart and cleaned the controls but I couldn't find a replacement pot for the broken one anywhere that I looked. The last resort was to call Peavy customer service. After giving the model number and serial number to the real live English speaking person that answered the phone I was told that the pot was $2.25 (if I remember correctly) and the knob was $1.00. When I asked how much shipping and handling would be she said that they don't charge their customers for S&H. I had the parts a few days later. Wow!

The only reason that I mention this is that, sadly, my experience with Peavy stands out as an extremely rare and unusual occurrence these days but there are still a few companies that still get it and understand how valuable that kind of service is. It was Made in the USA too! (It's really a sad comment that even mentioning that is noteworthy.)

I recently fixed a '70's vintage Peavey guitar amp for a friend. His used 6L6's for the outputs and the rest was SS. My friend said it had seen extensive use over the decades. All it needed was a control cleaning.

BTW, Peavey was started right here in my hometown of Meridian, MS!

[radiotvnut]

Originally Posted by nasadowsk

Even major appliances these days aren't built to last - years ago, you got 15 - 25 years out of a clothes washer, and at least 10 were trouble free. Today, you're lucky to go 3 years without a breakdown, and they're scrap by 5.

Speaking of which, GE's spinning off their lightbulb and appliance divisions because they "aren't profitable enough". IMHO, GE's going the way of Westinghouse, - in 15 years, all that'll be left is the nuke division (whoops - sold to Hitachi already - ironically, the Japanese own Westinghouse and GE's nuke divisions now).

Though frankly, the sooner GE dies, the better. IMHO, they're right behind Wal-Mart and GM in terms of representing everything that's wrong with US business right now.

Let's see, we had a Kenmore dryer that was probably 30 years old when it finally died. A Roper dryer replaced that one and it lasted maybe 5 years. We've had the Frigidaire for about 2 years now. Something tells me that I'd better be saving up for a new dryer, LOL!

[nasadowsk]

I ever tell you how much I HATE dealing with GE's industrial divisions? Their PLC line is ok, but the support blows - parts take forever to arrive, their 'new', i.e. 4 year old, Pacsystem line is really bad - stuff's forever on 'engineering hold' because of 'bad parts from China'. They just recalled every single CPU because of a stupidly undersized heat sink that resulted in overheating. A customer of mine got f***ed by one and was NOT HAPPY. GE's answer is "Yeah we screwed up but we're GE so we'll replace it, once we get the new parts from China in a month or two." Tech support is some Indian who graduated from Dell to a 'real product'. So I'm being told to reinstall the software.

This isn't cheap stuff - one project we did, the control gear alone was $30,000 for the parts. We're talking a big bucks line of stuff.

Oh, and GE's switches/pilot lights/contactors/starter are JUNK these days. Especially when you can get ABB or Sprecher + Schuh for less...

The flip side - Allan-Bradley gives us 24/7/365 tech support, where we get a AMERICAN who actually KNOWS the product and can help you - fast. The few times I've had to use it, it's been a dream - dial, enter your code, get a human, get the answer, get going. Of course, we almost never send A-B stuff back for repair because it never breaks in the first place.

[Brian]

Well, think of it as payback as GE is starting to sell itself off.