Commemorating the death of analog TV

[jazzwolf]

All I know is that you can't turn on a TV down here without constantly getting bombarded by those stupid digital TV commericials. "On Sep 8 TV will change as we know it.... blah blah blah etc,," I swear you would think that the damn bomb was going to be dropped here the way they keep slamming it down your throat. It is even on billboards. This is really going to be much about nothing as most people have cable, dish or Directv down here.

[kx250rider]

Originally Posted by jazzwolf

On Sep 8

Isn't it Feb 8?


Also I was told by a desk rep at Time-Warner cable, that they will "stop supporting" analog TV in 2009. She explained that all of the new digital boxes will come without any Ch 3 output, and will output only on 720/1080 component and/or DVI output. So that means you'll have to keep your old cable box, or probably can still get new DirecTV or Dishnet service with no problem.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if there's been payola from TV manufacturers to Time-Warner to force new TV sales.

Charles

[Jeffhs]

Originally Posted by jazzwolf

All I know is that you can't turn on a TV down here without constantly getting bombarded by those stupid digital TV commericials. "On Sep 8 TV will change as we know it.... blah blah blah etc,," I swear you would think that the damn bomb was going to be dropped here the way they keep slamming it down your throat. It is even on billboards. This is really going to be much about nothing as most people have cable, dish or Directv down here.

I live 35 miles east of Cleveland and have Time-Warner digital cable. Most folks around here have had cable for years (some went to satellite when it became available here and didn't even bother with cable--I see dishes all over town) because TV reception in this area is not that great.

Ironically, however, FM reception in my small town is fantastic--I get all the Cleveland stations, plus stations from 50-60 miles away on every one of my radios, just using their own built-in antennas. Go figure.

Channel 3 (NBC) in Cleveland doesn't reach here at all if you are using an antenna, 5 and 8 are so-so, 25, 43, 55, and 61 are better but still not 100 percent, and 23, the ION affiliate in Akron, 60 miles south of me, doesn't reach me either. The only UHF station I can get well enough to watch around here on an antenna is CBS channel 19.

I had analog cable until all the talk about the digital-TV transition started. The first ads around 2006 or so literally screamed "Your current (analog) TV will go black in February 2009!", not offering any options for people who want to keep their analog sets, most of which are nowhere near ready for the trash. Today, the situation is different, as I think the producers of the announcements for the digital transition are required to include an explanation of exactly what is going on, and how viewers who elect to keep their present analog sets can continue to watch their favorite channels even after the analog stations go off the air early next year--by subscribing to cable or satellite, or by using a digital-to-analog converter ahead of their TV's own tuner if these people want to continue using an antenna. For the foreseeable future at least, analog televisions will be usable with digital cable, as there are millions of analog sets in current use in this country.

I am convinced that the warning "your television will go dark in 2009!" is simply a ploy aimed at selling D/A (digital to analog) converter boxes and getting people to subscribe to cable or satellite; to simply throw out a cryptic announcement such as the foregoing without an explanation is a scare tactic used by the television industry, which would love it if everyone in the United States would throw out their "old-fashioned" analog TVs and get a new Texas-sized flat panel.

Of course, such a thing won't happen any time soon as, again, there are far too many analog sets in current use that are nowhere near ready for the dump. Advertising is a very aggressive business these days; one cannot believe everything he/she reads or hears in these ads, including the ones aimed at forcing people to go digital or lose their television reception (yes, forcing--remember, the government forced digital TV on us several years ago, and the TV industry is now in the middle of a very aggressive campaign to get everyone to go to LCD or plasma sets). I personally will not get a flat-panel TV until both my analog sets go belly-up, which I don't think will happen for some time; the RCA CTC185 19" TV in my living room is eight years old and has had only one repair--makes a great picture on cable (this is one of the sets that has RCA's troublesome onboard tuner, but once the ground points around the tuner are properly soldered, as the ones in mine were the last time I had it serviced, the set will perform flawlessly for years), and my Zenith Sentry 2 19" set in the bedroom is 13 years old, still works as well as when it was new.

There is no way I am going to trash these sets as long as they work as well as they do, the digital transition be darned. Time Warner Cable says that as long as their subscribers' televisions are connected to their service, the subscribers have absolutely nothing to worry about when all television turns digital early next year (by law, all cable operators now must say the same thing and be able to back it up). I have no reason not to believe it.

[andy]

...

[Jeffhs]

Originally Posted by kx250rider

Also I was told by a desk rep at Time-Warner cable, that they will "stop supporting" analog TV in 2009. She explained that all of the new digital boxes will come without any Ch 3 output, and will output only on 720/1080 component and/or DVI output. So that means you'll have to keep your old cable box, or probably can still get new DirecTV or Dishnet service with no problem.

Charles

I hadn't heard that before; thanks much for the warning. I guess Time-Warner is trying, in their way, to boost sales of new flat-panel TVs by telling people their old analog sets will not work with the new STBs (set-top boxes) because the new converters will not have RF modulators. (This has already happened with the dirt-cheap combination VHS/DVD players now available at Big Lots, Circuit City and Best Buy, et al. although if you want to spend the extra money, you can get one with a digital tuner). The digital STB presently hooked up to my living-room TV has channel 3/4 RF output and is working perfectly well, so I will hold onto the box as long as it works.

In a way, however, I cannot blame Time-Warner for ceasing to support analog television next year; after all, they won't need to after the analog TV stations shut down and this mode of TV transmission is completely phased out. The entire analog channel lineup on my cable is essentially duplicated on my digital box, since Time-Warner realigned the entire channel list earlier this year; most digital channels are perfectly watchable on my analog TV, except for the digital subchannels of the Cleveland network stations (those channels are currently blank). The latter will have to be unlocked after February 17, of course. I once asked a Time-Warner representative (over the phone) why the local stations' digital subchannels did not show on my analog set; the rep then asked me if I had a high-definition TV. I answered no. The representative so much as told me that was exactly why I wasn't getting my area's local stations on the digital channels in the 200-400 range. I suspect that will be changing after February 17 next year; that is, the local channels will have to be receivable using the digital STB (even if an analog TV is connected to the box), as subscribers with older sets will not stand for their local stations missing from the cable.

I think, however, there will still be a way to use STBs without RF outputs with standard televisions: just use an external RF modulator between the TV set and the STB, much as is already done with DVD players and standard sets. I've used an RF modulator between my own DVD and TV since I got the player over three years ago; it works extremely well. I cannot imagine why the same hookup would not work with a line-output cable box and an analog TV with an NTSC tuner.

[Jeffhs]

Originally Posted by bgadow

My plan will be similiar to Phil and Rob. With my current setup (big amplified UHF antenna in the attic and a decent amplified Winegard out back, but too low) I can get a whopping ONE channel on digital. (two if you count the subchannel) There are others but they are too weak to watch more than 30 seconds without locking up.

By the time the "end" comes I will hopefully get the Winegard on the roof with a rotor. I would like to use every VCR I have to record a different channel, and I like the idea of turning on a room full of TV sets and using the camcorder to record the moment. I'm not counting on anything low-power analog to be close enough for me to view.

I won't recognize it, but what channels are you receiving digitally with your Winegard amplified antenna?

[bgadow]

Jeff, the only station that will come in right is WBOC, Salisbury, MD. Their digital is on 21; CBS, with a FOX station on the subchannel. (the FOX station has always been digital/cable only, never was on analog) The outdoor antenna is aimed away from their transmitter which makes it pretty much unwatchable on analog (severe ghosting, etc) which is why I have the attic antenna aimed at the locals. WBOC will come in perfect in digital on either antenna. The attic antenna will pull in the other locals (WMDT and it's CW subchannel) and WCPB (PBS with a couple subchannels) but both have paltry signal levels and are unwatchable. I checked an online chart which showed them at much lower power than WBOC, so maybe in February they will increase output and be watchable. The Winegard doesn't pull in anything else watchable. Several DC/Baltimore stations showed up in the search function but nothing but a few pixels ever gets through. There is a PBS station rather close by that tries to pop in (WDPB) but even on analog they have never been watchable due to low power. Right now the outdoor antenna is just mounted to the top of a small shed; I would like to mount it to the highest point of my roof or, easier, the chimney. A tower would be great, and I had one offered to me, but too many projects right now.

I will point out that on analog the Winegard gets me over a dozen watchable stations out of DC/Baltimore, as-is. Yes, they have snow, but with a good TV they are watchable.

[kx250rider]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

I think, however, there will still be a way to use STBs without RF outputs with standard televisions: just use an external RF modulator between the TV set and the STB, much as is already done with DVD players and standard sets. I've used an RF modulator between my own DVD and TV since I got the player over three years ago; it works extremely well. I cannot imagine why the same hookup would not work with a line-output cable box and an analog TV with an NTSC tuner.

True, hopefully... But if what I was told is true, the output from those component video jacks will be 720/1080, so no standard 525 line analog available to feed any present-day RF modulator... UNLESS, they make an RF modulator which could convert HD 1080 digital component video down to Ch 3.

Charles

[3Guncolor]

Well I manage one of the master headends in the LA Area and this is the first I have heard the TWC will not support analog next year. We have had HD boxes for years that don't do channel 3 but they have NTSC video out. I'm sure if a customer has only older sets we will find the converters to hook up to it. It is possible with almost all of our digital boxes to watch HD content on a NTSC set at the very least using video.

[vinylisfinal]

its crap....pure crap.. i don't like it.......don't like it one bit.

[Jeffhs]

Even with a cable STB (set-top box) lacking RF output, I'm sure there is still a way to connect such to a standard NTSC television without having to use a modulator. If you have a VCR, connect the STB's video output to the VCR's video input, connect the audio out from the box to the VCR's audio input, set the VCR for line input, and your box should work just fine. (No one much uses VCRs these days; it is illegal and/or impossible, no thanks to Macrovision copy-guard schemes, to tape digital channels in their native formats, so most VCRs will be obsolete next year anyway unless they are used to view existing VHS tapes and/or to record digital channels in NTSC analog format.) Most recent-vintage VCRs have at least one set of external audio/video inputs, with some units having two, one of which is often on the front panel.

Unless there is some difference in circuitry between RF modulators used with high-definition video systems and those designed for use with standard 525-line NTSC analog televisions, VCRs, etc., I do not think it should matter (IMHO) whether the output signal from the STB sent to an RF modulator is 720/1080 digital (ATSC) or 525-line NTSC analog. I'd think the modulator wouldn't care (figuratively speaking) what type of signal it was converting, as long as it is video and audio; it will be downconverted to VHF channel 3 or 4, regardless.

[tubesrule]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

Unless there is some difference in circuitry between RF modulators used with high-definition video systems and those designed for use with standard 525-line NTSC analog televisions, VCRs, etc., I do not think it should matter (IMHO) whether the output signal from the STB sent to an RF modulator is 720/1080 digital (ATSC) or 525-line NTSC analog. I'd think the modulator wouldn't care (figuratively speaking) what type of signal it was converting, as long as it is video and audio; it will be downconverted to VHF channel 3 or 4, regardless.

This is the problem. As Charles already pointed out, if the STB only has a 720/1080 output, it's useless to send to a modulator. While the modulator won't care what signal is sent to it, your TV requires a NTSC signal and will not work with a 720/1080 signal. You would first need to down convert the STB output from 720/1080 to 525 (actually 480i) and then send to a modulator.

[jazzwolf]

Originally Posted by kx250rider

Isn't it Feb 8?


Also I was told by a desk rep at Time-Warner cable, that they will "stop supporting" analog TV in 2009. She explained that all of the new digital boxes will come without any Ch 3 output, and will output only on 720/1080 component and/or DVI output. So that means you'll have to keep your old cable box, or probably can still get new DirecTV or Dishnet service with no problem.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if there's been payola from TV manufacturers to Time-Warner to force new TV sales.

Charles

It is Sep 8 here in Wilmington. We are the Guinea Pigs and it'll be done here first before the national launch date in February. Stay Tuned, this might be fun

[merrylander]

Isn't it funny how we keep calling them STBs when you can't put a darn thing on top of any recent TV set. When Comcast announced some changeovers in local (DC) channels I ordered up two boxes for the upstairs TVs. Installed them then had someone at Comcast enter all the magic numbers. Did this mainly because the new HDTV in the bedroom numbered channels all differently than the downstairs one that had the STB. The analog set in the sewing room simply did not see much beyond 2 - 80. Regardless both STBs have channel 3/4 output so I don't care what the new boxes do.

[kx250rider]

Originally Posted by 3Guncolor

Well I manage one of the master headends in the LA Area and this is the first I have heard the TWC will not support analog next year. We have had HD boxes for years that don't do channel 3 but they have NTSC video out. I'm sure if a customer has only older sets we will find the converters to hook up to it. It is possible with almost all of our digital boxes to watch HD content on a NTSC set at the very least using video.

I would hope so. But it felt a bit like Microsoft tactics; they still allow you to have Windows XP, but you better not ask them for any help. It probably will be the same with the NTSC-outputting boxes... You can keep them, but if they crap out, you'll have to repair them yourself. And I can hear the laughter in advance if anyone asks for the schematic for the box

Charles