40 years of color television in Germany

[Telecolor 3007]

What was the price of the tvs comparing to the sallaryes (incomes). How many people got a color tv in 1967? When the qualty of color pictures tubes imporved?

[old_tv_nut]

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/incom...inc/h10ar.html

median income 1967 = $7143
Color TV (~23-inch table model) about $500, perhaps some leader models $400

median income 2005 = $46326
Tube TVs hard to find - 20-inch = $188
LCD digital HDTV - 26-inch = $398

(All figures NOT adjusted for inflation)

[old_tv_nut]

Here's a link to a wonderful WSJ chart on penetration of communications technology from 1920 to 1999

http://www.karlhartig.com/chart/techhouse.pdf

[Telecolor 3007]

Uh, oh, my question was about Germany...

[old_tv_nut]

Originally Posted by Telecolor 3007

... When the qualty of color pictures tubes imporved?

You can find previous discussions on this forum.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=105491

Essentially all the improvements in color picture tubes involved increased brightness and contrast, rather than precise NTSC color characteristics. There were many incremental improvements over the years.

The major stages were probably:
1)experimental phosphors requiring a colored filter over the screen
2) NTSC phosphors used in the 15GP22 and early 21AXP22
3) All-sulphide phosphors
4) Vanadate red
5) yttrium oxide (europium) red
6) zinc cadmium sulfide green (later reversed to remove cadmium from the process due to environmental concerns)
Note that the zinc sulphide blue, zinc sulphide green, europium red combination is what has become standardized (with slightly varying specifications) for PAL, HDTV, and the sRGB standard for digital still cameras.

(following not necessarily in order)
7) rectangular tubes with wider deflection angles
8) black matrix / negative guardband screen
9) grill mask (Trinitron)
10) in-line-gun shadow mask, self-converging deflection
11) darker faceplates
12) improvements to shadow mask thermal stability (materials and/or mounting)
13) for CRT projection sets: various green phosphor formulations including rare earth components to reduce current saturation; liquid cooling / optical coupling; low-flare optics

Probably other things I'm forgetting.

[firenzeprima]

Originally Posted by Kiwick

Here in Italy, we got "official" PAL color TV broadcasts in February 11, 1977, that's a decade later than most other European countries, that's due to our government's terrible bureaucracy (for the same reason we also had just 2 channels to watch until the late 70s, one on VHF and one on UHF)

The very first experimental color programming was the 1972 Munich olympic games coverage, but 99% of our TV sets were still B/W back then...

in the following years there was a lot of uncertainty about the color system that was to be adopted, it could have been PAL or SECAM... so many PAL sets made before 1977 were fitted with an optional SECAM decoder chassis...

a 1975 set is a rare find here... and a 1972 set is a real holy grail, like a CT-100 found in the wild...

What's interesting is that Autovox, an Italian electronics company, was manufacturing a lot of hi-tech solid state color sets exclusively for the german market in the late 60s...

Francesco

Hi francesco, maybe this is the model of TV SET AUTOVOX which will you speak.
Is the model TVC 2589/25. Is the tv color of the first generation of Autovox. Date of birth: September 1967. This model I saw, and running very well, in RAI headquarters in Florence in 1976. Was placed in the hall where he had installed near the titanic Ampex VR 2000. Of these Autovox not I've never seen more around! In attach some interestings photos of this set and factory.
Fernando

[nasadowsk]

Originally Posted by old_tv_nut

Interesting to hear a review of design weaknesses - but I don't think that has direct bearing on the introduction date of color. I think there was a lot of effort expended on protecting the interests of large European industrial firms.

I'd be curious as to if RCA ever took out patents in Germany/Europe on the NTSC system, or significant elements of it, and when they expired. I suspect THIS had a lot more to do with color TV in europe than any technological factor. Oh, and the TV stations were all government run, they sure didn't want to toss out good equipment before it was all used up!

Though Germans are pretty bad (actually, they're worse than the US a lot of the time) with 'not invented here', that doesn't explain it - PAL is more or less NTSC with a phase flip on every line (which was almost part of the NTSC standard anyway).

Had anyone ever done a side by side comparison of NTSC and PAL? I've heard all sorts of wonderful things said about PAL, thought they tend to be by people in Europe who have a pretty interesting view of what n NTSC picture looks like, so I'm suspicious...

[dtuomi]

NTSC and PAL comparisons tend to be very subjective. It seems like whichever one you grew up with is the one you prefer. Its hard to do a really good comparison of just the color system because as far as I know only Brazil uses PAL on System M (525 lines). You would have to get a Brazil set and a US set of the same make and model (equivalent) with the same video and test patters, etc to do a real color comparison.

PAL actually has a lower color resolution than NTSC because it only is able to broadcast 1/2 the color info (the other half is the color correction). But truthfully you'll never notice, we're more sensitive to the monochrome information in the picture than the color.

My personal opinion is that PAL tends to look a little pastel, but the Euro engineers always complain about the overprocessed look of NTSC so as I said its really subjective.

The real feature of PAL is that it has color correction. So its not as susceptible to crosstalk and reflection interference with the color phase.

David

[jhalphen]

Hello Eckard, Gentlemen,

Thank You! for this beautiful photo gallery of 1967 German color TVs. I spent my summer in the Frankfurt area that year (to learn the language) and discovered those 2 issues of "Funkschau" in the local newstand.

Here are some pictures of a working, not yet restored PAL Color 708 i helped a French friend acquire in April of this year. It will be used with a DVB-T receiver feeding a PAL B/G modulator.

Eckhard, in 1967 many German families purchased a NTSC adapter (4.5 MHz FM audio demodulator) to watch AFN-TV from Frankfurt & Ramstein which broadcast US series, sports & movies for the US air bases. Surely there must be some NTSC B&W or color TVs which stayed in Germany when US servicemen returned Stateside. Have you seen any, small B&W? color roundies?, ...

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France

[Telecolor 3007]

The early color television video-cameras used in West-Germany where solid-state or had some electonic tubes in it?

[Kiwick]

Originally Posted by firenzeprima

Hi francesco, maybe this is the model of TV SET AUTOVOX which will you speak.
Is the model TVC 2589/25. Is the tv color of the first generation of Autovox. Date of birth: September 1967. This model I saw, and running very well, in RAI headquarters in Florence in 1976. Was placed in the hall where he had installed near the titanic Ampex VR 2000. Of these Autovox not I've never seen more around! In attach some interestings photos of this set and factory.
Fernando

The set i'm talking about is from about 1972, it had a pushbutton varactor tuner and slider controls, the control panel had "110 volltransistor" written on it.

Sadly, the one i found was destroyed, the chassis was missing, the CRT was smashed, i was only able to save the control panel and the speaker.

il modello di cui parlo e' successivo, circa del 1972, aveva il sintonizzatore varicap a pulsanti e i controlli slider, sul pannello di controllo c'era scritto "110 volltransistor"

Purtroppo quello che ho trovato io era distrutto, lo chassis era sparito e il tubo era spaccato, ho potuto solo recuperare il pannello di controllo e l'altoparlante.

[old_tv_nut]

Originally Posted by Telecolor 3007

The early color television video-cameras used in West-Germany where solid-state or had some electonic tubes in it?

I cannot find a direct reference, but I think if color broadcasts started in 1967, the cameras used would have been transistorized, and would have used Plumbicon pickup tubes. It would be interesting to know what models were installed.

[firenzeprima]

Originally Posted by Kiwick

The set i'm talking about is from about 1972, it had a pushbutton varactor tuner and slider controls, the control panel had "110 volltransistor" written on it.

Sadly, the one i found was destroyed, the chassis was missing, the CRT was smashed, i was only able to save the control panel and the speaker.

il modello di cui parlo e' successivo, circa del 1972, aveva il sintonizzatore varicap a pulsanti e i controlli slider, sul pannello di controllo c'era scritto "110 volltransistor"

Purtroppo quello che ho trovato io era distrutto, lo chassis era sparito e il tubo era spaccato, ho potuto solo recuperare il pannello di controllo e l'altoparlante.

Hi Francis
sin, I believe to have you helped. I believe that it was because you had said that was a model end'60s. If the buttons had to change the TV stations I think I have repaired one years ago a friend of mine. is not that it was the maximum as technical, indeed.
fernando

[firenzeprima]

Hi Telecolor 3007
in 1967 the Television cameras were in solid form, the ceremony of began broadcasting in color was resumed with the Philips ldk3 (see photo). For exeperimental broadcast in color (as it did with RAI with RCA TK41) I do not know if the Germany TV Cameras was whit tubes.