VHS VCR 15-year average reliability data (1978-1993)...

[Ed in Tx]

Later I recall Sharp had some sort of specially treated diamond-hardened surface or somesuch of the upper drum they touted. Those old ones were solid brass I was talking about. The mass served as a flywheel too. Take one off and it's heavy unlike the usual aluminum alloy. And that belt drive arrangement. Oddly the "Inventor" of VHS, JVC, used a belt drive head drum on their first home VCR, the HR-3300, but that belt was on the bottom of the deck. One thing about Matsushita (parent company of JVC) they always used a DD cylinder from their first PV-1000.

[waltchan]

Originally Posted by Ed in Tx

Later I recall Sharp had some sort of specially treated diamond-hardened surface or somesuch of the upper drum they touted.

I've seen a 8-head Sharp VCR before with the "Titanium-coated feature" that was released in the early-90s. Maybe this video head is identical.

On the Toshiba, how reliable were they, and what kind of problems you saw that came in for service? Toshiba was 2nd most-reliable, while Sharp was 9th most-reliable, which looks very significant to me.

Of all the fifty 80s vintage VHS VCRs I have in my collection, personally, I find Toshiba and Funai/Symphonic to be the most-reliable, cheapest to fix, and aging the best as they get older. I don't really care for Panasonic much, despite it being the most-reliable, due to the switching power supply it used, and they often have serious electronic-aging issues when they get old.
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[Ed in Tx]

Originally Posted by waltchan

..."Titanium-coated feature"..

That's it.

We saw our share of Toshibas. I remember a few Betas from the late '70s-early '80s. VHS mostly rubber drive parts. The later line early-mid-'90s that included M-752 I think it was, tended to get a cracked capstan motor pulley to the reel drive, many came in with that pulley loose spinning around, or some the belt would just break and/or get soft and fall off, and of course no reel drive eats tapes. RCA decided to sell Toshiba-made VCRs at that time with that same mechanism so we saw a lot of those too. Another common fail was the die-cast loading arm that went from under the cam gear and operated the FL mechanism. Many of those came in with that cast arm broken, from operator getting a tape jammed. There was also one certain electrolytic in the SMPS that would fail and PS would not start up after a power failure. Another Toshiba model would not tune to certain HRC cable channels, would just hunt back-and-forth across the channel not lock. We got in over 50 of those all in warranty to add a capacitor to the tuner circuit to change a timing issue and make it work.

Agree about the Panasonics and their offspring, capacitors especially not aging well. I gambled and lost when I bought an AG-1830 new in 1989 for roughly $1000, even bought a spare head drum, but every capacitor in that thing must be bad. It started showing symptoms after maybe 5-6 years.

There were a few Panasonics and Quasars in the early '80s that had a big ol' power transformer in 'em before they started getting SMPS. Some of those had remarkably durable rubber parts too, that didn't seem to deteriorate like newer rubber.

My current VCR that's always hooked up ready to go is a JVC HR-S5900. Simple, reliable, not a whole lot to break in one, plays all my S-VHS tapes I made starting in '89 with the AG-1830 Panasonic on.

[waltchan]

Originally Posted by Ed in Tx

We saw our share of Toshibas. I remember a few Betas from the late '70s-early '80s. VHS mostly rubber drive parts. The later line early-mid-'90s that included M-752 I think it was, tended to get a cracked capstan motor pulley to the reel drive, many came in with that pulley loose spinning around, or some the belt would just break and/or get soft and fall off, and of course no reel drive eats tapes. RCA decided to sell Toshiba-made VCRs at that time with that same mechanism so we saw a lot of those too. Another common fail was the die-cast loading arm that went from under the cam gear and operated the FL mechanism. Many of those came in with that cast arm broken, from operator getting a tape jammed. There was also one certain electrolytic in the SMPS that would fail and PS would not start up after a power failure. Another Toshiba model would not tune to certain HRC cable channels, would just hunt back-and-forth across the channel not lock. We got in over 50 of those all in warranty to add a capacitor to the tuner circuit to change a timing issue and make it work.

Ahhh, yes, this was the mid-90s Toshiba chassis, which was a joint-venture with Thomson/RCA. Studio Sound Electronics, the largest online DIY VCR parts store, called this the MBK-48 chassis, and the owner also agrees this was a junky, unreliable VCR. Frankly, I'm never interested in this chassis.

What about the mid-to-late-1980s Toshibas with linear power supply inside? No major problems, right, besides rubber parts? I assume it's reliable overall, and the #2 most-reliable rating must be valid after all.

Originally Posted by Ed in Tx

Agree about the Panasonics and their offspring, capacitors especially not aging well. I gambled and lost when I bought an AG-1830 new in 1989 for roughly $1000, even bought a spare head drum, but every capacitor in that thing must be bad. It started showing symptoms after maybe 5-6 years.

The most common caps failed in the Panasonics are the surface-mount caps located on the video and Hi-Fi audio board, and I've seen this in many Panasonic units made after 1988, whether it's a simple, no-frill 2-head mono or 6-head Hi-Fi S-VHS unit. Video that turns black, no color, and distorted video, or distorted or no Hi-Fi audio sound are all caused by the surface-mount caps placed on bottom of the hybrid IC board. Repairs are always costly, and they will eventually fail again shortly in the future, due to poor design. They overheated most of the time due to poor ventilation, so the surface-mount caps dried up faster than normal.

My local technician is always not happy fixing this for me. Every time I sent him a Panasonic board to fix, he had to unsoldered 55 joints total, then 10 joints for all the surface-mount caps, and then re-soldered 55 joints again when finished. Total: 120 solder joints, and I only paid him $40 total, and the tech quoted me a wrong price in the end and told me I got a great deal. Re-soldering all 55 joints were the most difficult to do for him, as the tiny solder joints could make contact with each other easily and blow out the power supply if not soldered right.

Tech told me to stay away from Panasonic units made after 1988 (aka. G-Chassis decks) if I plan to keep vintage VCRs running for another 50 years in the future.

Originally Posted by Ed in Tx

There were a few Panasonics and Quasars in the early '80s that had a big ol' power transformer in 'em before they started getting SMPS. Some of those had remarkably durable rubber parts too, that didn't seem to deteriorate like newer rubber.

All the Panasonic/Quasar VCRs made before 1983 used the big ol' linear power transformer. The AG models used this until 1987. The last, linear-powered Panasonic VCRs were the 1986 AG-1810, 1986 AG-1950, and 1986 Canon VR-HF720.

[Ed in Tx]

Originally Posted by waltchan

Ahhh, yes, this was the mid-90s Toshiba chassis, which was a joint-venture with Thomson/RCA. Studio Sound Electronics, the largest online DIY VCR parts store, called this the MBK-48 chassis, and the owner also agrees this was a junky, unreliable VCR. Frankly, I'm never interested in this chassis.

Yep those were pretty bad. They really cut back on the mechanism, tape guides and rollers. Had a good picture though. I remember the 19u head switch some had on the front panel. Every one of those Tosh-RCAs I got in if it had been used at all had little piles of tape oxide beneath the tape guides because it was impossible to get the tape to run smoothly without some wrinkling and skewing between the drum exit guide and the AC head guide.

What about the mid-to-late-1980s Toshibas with linear power supply inside? No major problems, right, besides rubber parts? I assume it's reliable overall, and the #2 most-reliable rating must be valid after all.

Rubber parts, reel drive clutch, stuff like that about all I remember.

Kind of surprised Mitsubishi ranked in the middle. I probably fixed as many if not more Mitsubishis than any others. Made lots of money off their loose entry and exit tape guide rollers..

[Zenith26kc20]

Mitsubishi with glue eating up the circuit traces! We repaired plenty of them!
Funai with bad LED's for the sensors!
Never dull!

[waltchan]

Originally Posted by Zenith26kc20

Funai with bad LED's for the sensors!

These Funai LED problems were really common for the mid-to-late 1990s units, or plastic disposable VCRs. The vintage Funai VCRs from the 1980s had no problems.

[waltchan]

Originally Posted by Ed in Tx

Kind of surprised Mitsubishi ranked in the middle. I probably fixed as many if not more Mitsubishis than any others. Made lots of money off their loose entry and exit tape guide rollers..

It's probably because Mitsubishi was the 2nd largest VHS VCR producer in Japan after Matsushita (Panasonic) during the late-1980s, so tons of units were sold under several brand names, so more units appeared in service centers. I also see more late-1980s Mitsubishi selling on eBay than others, and not all units had been serviced one-time before.

I also find Mitsubishi somewhat troublesome, but Mitsubishi had slightly better electronics that aged better than Panasonic (assuming the glue was removed), since Mitsubishi didn't put in any surface-mount caps.

[NJRoadfan]

Originally Posted by waltchan

The most common caps failed in the Panasonics are the surface-mount caps located on the video and Hi-Fi audio board, and I've seen this in many Panasonic units made after 1988, whether it's a simple, no-frill 2-head mono or 6-head Hi-Fi S-VHS unit. Video that turns black, no color, and distorted video, or distorted or no Hi-Fi audio sound are all caused by the surface-mount caps placed on bottom of the hybrid IC board. Repairs are always costly, and they will eventually fail again shortly in the future, due to poor design. They overheated most of the time due to poor ventilation, so the surface-mount caps dried up faster than normal.

This is the problem that plagues the last of the line Panasonic AG-1980 (built 1996 to 2001, K-chassis). Does replacing the caps with higher temp rated electrolytic or even tantalum caps solve the issues? Its only a matter of time until my 1980 starts acting up, and I'm not looking forward to taking that beast apart. Its already got a dim VFD.

As for the later SVHS JVCs (1998-2004), they seem to be reliable although they all seem to be cursed with poor Hi-Fi and EP tape tracking. The DVHS units don't seem to suffer from these problems thankfully. The only problem deck is the HM-DH30000U. Like most JVC products of that era, it suffers from faulty caps from the factory.

For pro equipment, I'd stick with Panny over JVC. In high school TV class, thats all they used and we beat the living crap out of it. Just try killing a pair of AG-6500s with the AG-A750 editor. They had a nice A-B roll setup with 2xAG-DS545s, an AG-DS555, a AG-A850 editor, and a WJ-MX50 mixer. Don't know how that held up, but it seemed just as solid as the 80s gear.

[waltchan]

Originally Posted by NJRoadfan

This is the problem that plagues the last of the line Panasonic AG-1980 (built 1996 to 2001, K-chassis). Does replacing the caps with higher temp rated electrolytic or even tantalum caps solve the issues? Its only a matter of time until my 1980 starts acting up, and I'm not looking forward to taking that beast apart. Its already got a dim VFD.

Any caps that are higher-temp rated are always better and longer lasting than the standard ones. Assuming the Panasonic AG-1980 you have has no picture, you will need to replace all the surface-mount caps placed on the hybrid IC board.

[Tony75]

My experience with Panasonic machines likewise is quite mixed, the early ones with the D-Deck (branded National here) with linear power supplies were very solid and will last forever just with rubber changes. G decks had one motor to do all the loading, reel and capstan driving, this put a lot of strain on the clutch, genuine part replacement was the only cure. Of course the switching power supplies were not that reliable. The later K deck was interesting as it upped the motor count (i think) making the clutch far more reliable. What I really noticed about these was the engineering. They were very reliable and well performing until something went wrong, then basically everything went wrong at the same time or shortly after the last thing was fixed, good quality control really. What it did mean that though, coupled with Panasonic's exorbitant parts prices these machines were almost always an economic write off. I refuse to repair any now apart from the D decks.
Have to agree that the old Funai (mostly badged Teac) here from late 80's were very solid. They went unbelievably downhill in the 90s of course. These older Funais are showing lots of issues now with dried grease but they can be brought back to life, just not economically.
JVC has often been a mixed bag, but my machine, an HR-J200 bought in the mid 90's just keeps going and going and gets a lot of use.
One brand that we get a lot of here that does not make the list is Akai, up until the late 90's they made their own machines. The early ones are quite amazing, some are quite cantankerous too. The later units for this time frame (up to 1993) seem to be holding up well generally without too many catastrophic failures.
Been experimenting with an old Daewoo from the late 80s for a few years now, very solid and surprisingly reliable, like the Panasonics it has a very solid cast alloy chassis. A far cry from some of their later decks, such as ones badged NEC in the early 90s. They did lift their game for their last chassis design, but it did chew through belts.