Zonked!

[TV Engineer]

I fail to see how any proerly trained and experienced technician wouldn't know that these are for scan derived CRT supplies...

Firstly, these small transformers are hard wired into the set between the CRT and chassis and are quite small. A transformer designed for 60cps will be much larger.

Secondly, the iso-boost units that were available for sets with 60cps heaters were made with a socket at one end and a plug at the other that matched the CRT, and weren't wired in...

Finally, the seller may not have known what he was selling, and didn't realize the significance of the printed statement included with the units. This is where a properly trained and experienced tech would have been able to see clearly that these are not what he wanted.

My intention is not to offend anyone by this post, but to point out that electronic servicing is best left to professionals. It prevents damage to the equipment as well as the hobbyist.

[Kamakiri]

Originally Posted by TV Engineer

My intention is not to offend anyone by this post, but to point out that electronic servicing is best left to professionals. It prevents damage to the equipment as well as the hobbyist.

"Let the man who hath never blown anything up cast the first stone" 2 Farnsworth 4, verse 12

Know how I restore a TV or radio? I test and replace parts that in the grand scheme of things I feel that it makes sense to replace given a certain condition. If you equated my amount of electronic knowledge to a car, it would be like saying that I can acknowledge when I suspect a car has a bad fuel pump. I can test a fuel pump. I can replace a fuel pump. But, I don't know how a fuel pump makes the car run. Exchange "fuel pump" with "2nd IF stage", or something, and there's me.

I don't know Ohm's law. I blew up my first radio at age 8, but I repaired my first radio at age 8 1/2. I also built my first TV by trash picking different sets and swapping parts until I got something that kinda worked. Think I was 11. Everything else, well, it came to me along the way.

This is, after all, a hobby. I think that anyone who tried to make a living off of restoring TVs would go broke rather quickly.

[TV Engineer]

Originally Posted by Kamakiri

"Let the man who hath never blown anything up cast the first stone" 2 Farnsworth 4, verse 12

Know how I restore a TV or radio? I test and replace parts that in the grand scheme of things I feel that it makes sense to replace given a certain condition. If you equated my amount of electronic knowledge to a car, it would be like saying that I can acknowledge when I suspect a car has a bad fuel pump. I can test a fuel pump. I can replace a fuel pump. But, I don't know how a fuel pump makes the car run. Exchange "fuel pump" with "2nd IF stage", or something, and there's me.

I don't know Ohm's law. I blew up my first radio at age 8, but I repaired my first radio at age 8 1/2. I also built my first TV by trash picking different sets and swapping parts until I got something that kinda worked. Think I was 11. Everything else, well, it came to me along the way.

This is, after all, a hobby. I think that anyone who tried to make a living off of restoring TVs would go broke rather quickly.

I understand what you're saying, but the concept is foreign to me.

I made a very good living as a service tech for 20+ years before moving into engineering. I began tinkering around the same age you did, and of course, I destroyed equipment in the process of my experiments. But, as time progressed, so did I, and I became a professional in the field. As I honed my skills and knowledge base (I attended electronics school), destruction of equipment became increasingly rare and my success rate was very close to 100%.

The equipment that I experimented on and destroyed in the process was often fairly common, and in some cases in daily use (like roundie color sets,) so it was quite plentiful.

It is the same equipment that I read of folks working on now. However, it is rarer and not so easily repaired or replaced if inexperienced, untrained hands begin chopping away at it. And every time a set ends up on the unrepairable pile because someone that didn't really know what they were doing got to it, to me, is very sad. It's also a part of history that doesn't exist any more.

Maybe that will help you understand how I feel about this "hobby" sometimes.

[Kamakiri]

Originally Posted by TV Engineer

I understand what you're saying, but the concept is foreign to me.

I made a very good living as a service tech for 20+ years before moving into engineering. I began tinkering around the same age you did, and of course, I destroyed equipment in the process of my experiments. But, as time progressed, so did I, and I became a professional in the field. As I honed my skills and knowledge base (I attended electronics school), destruction of equipment became increasingly rare and my success rate was very close to 100%.

The equipment that I experimented on and destroyed in the process was often fairly common, and in some cases in daily use (like roundie color sets,) so it was quite plentiful.

It is the same equipment that I read of folks working on now. However, it is rarer and not so easily repaired or replaced if inexperienced, untrained hands begin chopping away at it. And every time a set ends up on the unrepairable pile because someone that didn't really know what they were doing got to it, to me, is very sad. It's also a part of history that doesn't exist any more.

Maybe that will help you understand how I feel about this "hobby" sometimes.

I do understand what you're saying, but I think it depends on the set in front of you.

For example, there are plenty of TVs out there with picture tubes with 6.3v heaters that are far from rare that are great to "cut your teeth" on. I personally blame the Admiral corporation for most of the deforestation of the United States . At least here, Admiral combos are a dime a dozen.....you can't give them away. Then there's your garden-variety Air Kings or Motorolas from the early 50s with rectangular tubes that are the prehistoric equivalent to the Wal Mart set of today. I personally think that the split chassis Philcos are an excellent set to learn repairs on, because they're not so intimidating.

Naturally, if you've got a CTC-5 in front of you that needs repair, it's not something you're gonna want to tackle until you've got some good repair skills under your belt, and even then.....

As far as unrepairable sets, well, that's going to happen whether it's at the hands of inexperience, or Father Time. The nice thing is that the best things around are still being unearthed

[Phil Nelson]

If you want free or cheap old TVs, come up here to the Pacific Northwest. Most common are the nondescript 21" B/W consoles. Combos might as well be listed in the Free category under firewood. I suspect that most of these TVs do not get sold, even to fishtankers. The unanswered craigslist ad is their last stop on the way to the landfill.

I'm as eager as anyone else to preserve rare and unusual things, and to treat them carefully. Not everything fits in that category. I suppose the common, boring sets are part of our history, but I don't have an empty gymnasium to warehouse 5,000 unwanted TVs until some distant era when they might become interesting to somebody.

So, yeah, it depends on the set in front of you. If someone burns up a scarce or historically significant TV, that's bad. If they burn up a craigslist reject that they rescued from the curb . . . not so much.

The risk of inexperienced hobbyists wrecking significant TVs seems pretty remote. If you watch these forums, every now and then some Joe Schmoe will pipe up saying, "I found Granny's TV in the basement and it makes a white line. What now?" The first thing you'll see is a chorus of people waving their hands, telling Joe not to turn it on anymore, and to find someone experienced to help. And that advice is given even when the TV in question is a common, boring set that wouldn't fetch $25 on craigslist.

Just my $0.02.

Phil Nelson

[charokeeroad]

Originally Posted by Phil Nelson

If you want free or cheap old TVs, come up here to the Pacific Northwest. Most common are the nondescript 21" B/W consoles. Combos might as well be listed in the Free category under firewood. I suspect that most of these TVs do not get sold, even to fishtankers. The unanswered craigslist ad is their last stop on the way to the landfill.

I'm as eager as anyone else to preserve rare and unusual things, and to treat them carefully. Not everything fits in that category. I suppose the common, boring sets are part of our history, but I don't have an empty gymnasium to warehouse 5,000 unwanted TVs until some distant era when they might become interesting to somebody.

So, yeah, it depends on the set in front of you. If someone burns up a scarce or historically significant TV, that's bad. If they burn up a craigslist reject that they rescued from the curb . . . not so much.

The risk of inexperienced hobbyists wrecking significant TVs seems pretty remote. If you watch these forums, every now and then some Joe Schmoe will pipe up saying, "I found Granny's TV in the basement and it makes a white line. What now?" The first thing you'll see is a chorus of people waving their hands, telling Joe not to turn it on anymore, and to find someone experienced to help. And that advice is given even when the TV in question is a common, boring set that wouldn't fetch $25 on craigslist.

Just my $0.02.

Phil Nelson

Phil, It's hard to agrue with anything you've said and to a degree I know your right. I also know your saying them tongue in cheek. The thing that make this hobby what it is is that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I know I have some sets that wouldn't amount to much with a serious collector but the fact that I like them is enough for me. If I was only interested in the rareness or monitary value of an item I wouldn't be collecting old TVs.

[AUdubon5425]

Originally Posted by TV Engineer

...It is the same equipment that I read of folks working on now. However, it is rarer and not so easily repaired or replaced if inexperienced, untrained hands begin chopping away at it. And every time a set ends up on the unrepairable pile because someone that didn't really know what they were doing got to it, to me, is very sad. It's also a part of history that doesn't exist any more...

My counter-argument would be this: How many people attending tech school today understand or are even aware of older technology? Life before the IC and even the transistor? I'd say very few. In fact, the few times I've bothered to stop at a TV shop and seek a part or schematic from a professional technician - well, I've generally been chided and sneered at for attempting something ridiculous like trying to repair a worthless p.o.s. fifty-year-old color TV.

My point being that if non-professional people who have an interest in this old junk and the capacity to learn aren't helped and encouraged, it'll all be lost history in thirty years because no-one will know what to do with it.

[radiotvnut]

Originally Posted by AUdubon5425

My counter-argument would be this: How many people attending tech school today understand or are even aware of older technology? Life before the IC and even the transistor? I'd say very few. In fact, the few times I've bothered to stop at a TV shop and seek a part or schematic from a professional technician - well, I've generally been chided and sneered at for attempting something ridiculous like trying to repair a worthless p.o.s. fifty-year-old color TV.

My point being that if non-professional people who have an interest in this old junk and the capacity to learn aren't helped and encouraged, it'll all be lost history in thirty years because no-one will know what to do with it.

When I took electronics at the local community college from '99-'01, we probably spent a total of 10 minutes on tubes. The first 5 minutes were discussed in solid state devices & circuits class and the discussion pretty much went like, "This is a tube, this is what was used before transistors, nobody but Bryan messes with them anymore, and they are obsolete technology that you don't need to be concerned with". The other 5 minutes was by another instructor in Electronic Communications class. He did talk briefly about how a tube operated; but, not much time was spent on the subject. Contrast that to the early '70's, when a friend went through the program with one of the same instructors. Back then, he said that tubes were the main topic of conversation and that little time was spent on solid state devices.

[mbates14]

Thats pretty much the way it was when I was in collage as well. from 04 to 06. But on the flip-side, there was a team trying to restore a hallocrafters electrostatic set, and a philco 39-140 radio as a capstone project.