many Analog American TV stations will kill analog Feb 17 even if deadline is extended

[wa2ise]

In San Diego, mainly because of the electric bill for the analog transmitters, and that only abouy 7% of the viewers still use over-the-air.
http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/73950

And many stations have already booked tower crews and transmitter swaps, and it be very costly to change those schedules.

If the Feb 17th deadline still stands, I was going to videotape the Jay Leno show that night off the local over-the-air analog station, channel 5 here in Seattle. Midnight would happen in the middle of his show, and the signal should die forever then.

[radiotvnut]

I know that the local ABC affiliate plans to kill analog regardless of any date changes. The CBS and NBC affiliates are owned by the same people and I suspect they will also kill analog on 2/17.

I too plan to record the final few hours of analog TV on the three major local stations.

[AUdubon5425]

Two stations here have already gone dark, including the Fox affiliate who hasn't been broadcasting a digital signal ota for over two weeks now.

I'm going to set up three or four TVs tuned to ABC, NBC, CBS and PBS and tape it with my movie camera.

[electroking]

Originally Posted by wa2ise

In San Diego, mainly because of the electric bill for the analog transmitters, and that only abouy 7% of the viewers still use over-the-air.
http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/73950

And many stations have already booked tower crews and transmitter swaps, and it be very costly to change those schedules.

If the Feb 17th deadline still stands, I was going to videotape the Jay Leno show that night off the local over-the-air analog station, channel 5 here in Seattle. Midnight would happen in the middle of his show, and the signal should die forever then.

Is everyone sure that there will be a real saving in power once the
required adjustments have been made? Without getting too involved with
theory, I would assume that transmitting the same picture quality as
the former NTSC signal using digital means would save power, but actually
the transition involves increased resolution, multiple subchannels, etc.
I predict that within a few years, broadcasters will find out that generating
the same advertising revenue with the new technology will increase their
actual operating costs.

P.S.: of course I missed the fact that the transition involves operating both
types of transmitters at the same time. Sorry about that.

[truetone36]

The local PBS station here shut off BOTH their analog and digital transmitters on Jan. 20th and they won't be on the air again till Feb. 19th.

[Jeffhs]

I am not sure what the analog TV stations here in the Cleveland area will do on 02.17. Haven't heard or read anything yet as to early analog shutoffs, although the NBC affiliate will switch from analog channel 3 to digital UHF 17 after a non-commercial station on the latter channel goes off the air after the transition.

BTW, there really isn't that much to be gained in northeastern Ohio by having a converter box and getting TV reception on an antenna. The pictures on the local stations' main digital channels will be clearer, but as far as more programming choices on subchannels goes, I don't know. Cleveland's TV stations do not seem to want to put alternate programming on their digital subcarriers; most of what I see from TV Guide's website for Cleveland TV (the listing you get when you enter your zip code into a text box on the site) is that the digital subchannels carry the same programming as the main digital signal. For example, if channel 17.1 in Cleveland (the station's main digital channel) is carrying the station's standard network and local programming, digital subchannel 17.2 will probably carry the same thing. For some reason, TV stations in this part of Ohio either do not want to or are, for whatever reason, blocked from carrying alternate programming on digital subchannels. The only exceptions I've seen to this, so far, have been that the CBS-TV digital weather channel is now being carried on a subchannel of the local CBS affiliate, and NBC Weather Plus, a now defunct digital weather channel, which was carried on a subchannel of the NBC affiliate until the service went dark on December 31 last year.

Other than that, there is really no alternative programming to be had (that I am aware of) in northeastern Ohio on digital TV subchannels. Channel 5, the ABC affiliate in Cleveland, from what I have read, apparently doesn't believe in carrying subchannel programming; I don't think the others do either, except for the CBS affiliate's use of one of its subcarriers for the CBS digital weather channel, and channel 3 having used one of its digital channels for NBC Weather Plus until that service went dark.

Oh, well. All one can hope is that one of the channels picks up THIS-TV (RTN is either off the air for good or is struggling at this time, from what I've read; perhaps NowhereMan1966 will chime in and tell us more about whether RTN is at least available on the digital subcarriers of channel 11 in Pittsburgh) or any one of several other channels now available for retransmission over subchannels after the dust settles from the transition.

[pioneernut]

Personnally I think its silly to delay the switch. I've got my converter, I'm ready. Besides they'll never get 90%+ compliance on the switch over unless they kill the signal. I've learned that there's alot of not-to-sharp-people in this world, you can tell em till they're blue in the face and they'll never get it.

[DENNYDOG]

Originally Posted by pioneernut

Personnally I think its silly to delay the switch. I've got my converter, I'm ready. Besides they'll never get 90%+ compliance on the switch over unless they kill the signal. I've learned that there's alot of not-to-sharp-people in this world, you can tell em till they're blue in the face and they'll never get it.

Me too. How many people watch tv on an over the air tv antenna anyways? Its not like it costs a fortune to get a converter box either. Switch it over and be done with it.

[old_tv_nut]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

the digital subchannels carry the same programming as the main digital signal.

Some of the stations are carrying their analog content, which is a down-res dupe of the main digital, as the second digital. It may be because they are using the digital signal to feed their analog transmitter. It seems to me there will be no reason for it once analog goes away.

[wa2ise]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

(RTN is either off the air for good or is struggling at this time, from what I've read; perhaps NowhereMan1966 will chime in and tell us more about whether RTN is at least available on the digital subcarriers of channel 11 in Pittsburgh) or any one of several other channels now available for retransmission over subchannels after the dust settles from the transition.

RTN is still on Seattle KIRO DTV channel 7.2

[Robert Grant]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

I am not sure what the analog TV stations here in the Cleveland area will do on 02.17. Haven't heard or read anything yet as to early analog shutoffs, although the NBC affiliate will switch from analog channel 3 to digital UHF 17 after a non-commercial station on the latter channel goes off the air after the transition.

BTW, there really isn't that much to be gained in northeastern Ohio by having a converter box and getting TV reception on an antenna. The pictures on the local stations' main digital channels will be clearer, but as far as more programming choices on subchannels goes, I don't know. Cleveland's TV stations do not seem to want to put alternate programming on their digital subcarriers; most of what I see from TV Guide's website for Cleveland TV (the listing you get when you enter your zip code into a text box on the site) is that the digital subchannels carry the same programming as the main digital signal. For example, if channel 17.1 in Cleveland (the station's main digital channel) is carrying the station's standard network and local programming, digital subchannel 17.2 will probably carry the same thing. For some reason, TV stations in this part of Ohio either do not want to or are, for whatever reason, blocked from carrying alternate programming on digital subchannels. The only exceptions I've seen to this, so far, have been that the CBS-TV digital weather channel is now being carried on a subchannel of the local CBS affiliate, and NBC Weather Plus, a now defunct digital weather channel, which was carried on a subchannel of the NBC affiliate until the service went dark on December 31 last year.

Other than that, there is really no alternative programming to be had (that I am aware of) in northeastern Ohio on digital TV subchannels. Channel 5, the ABC affiliate in Cleveland, from what I have read, apparently doesn't believe in carrying subchannel programming; I don't think the others do either, except for the CBS affiliate's use of one of its subcarriers for the CBS digital weather channel, and channel 3 having used one of its digital channels for NBC Weather Plus until that service went dark.

Oh, well. All one can hope is that one of the channels picks up THIS-TV (RTN is either off the air for good or is struggling at this time, from what I've read; perhaps NowhereMan1966 will chime in and tell us more about whether RTN is at least available on the digital subcarriers of channel 11 in Pittsburgh) or any one of several other channels now available for retransmission over subchannels after the dust settles from the transition.

I've read a report (I can't remember where) that WUAB (virtual channel 43, actual 28), which has been running a still notice, announcing that "The Tube" is no longer available, for more than a year, will be featuring "This" on 43.2, soon, if not already.

You are right, Cleveland is "subchannel poor" compared to other markets.

[NowhereMan 1966]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

I am not sure what the analog TV stations here in the Cleveland area will do on 02.17. Haven't heard or read anything yet as to early analog shutoffs, although the NBC affiliate will switch from analog channel 3 to digital UHF 17 after a non-commercial station on the latter channel goes off the air after the transition.

BTW, there really isn't that much to be gained in northeastern Ohio by having a converter box and getting TV reception on an antenna. The pictures on the local stations' main digital channels will be clearer, but as far as more programming choices on subchannels goes, I don't know. Cleveland's TV stations do not seem to want to put alternate programming on their digital subcarriers; most of what I see from TV Guide's website for Cleveland TV (the listing you get when you enter your zip code into a text box on the site) is that the digital subchannels carry the same programming as the main digital signal. For example, if channel 17.1 in Cleveland (the station's main digital channel) is carrying the station's standard network and local programming, digital subchannel 17.2 will probably carry the same thing. For some reason, TV stations in this part of Ohio either do not want to or are, for whatever reason, blocked from carrying alternate programming on digital subchannels. The only exceptions I've seen to this, so far, have been that the CBS-TV digital weather channel is now being carried on a subchannel of the local CBS affiliate, and NBC Weather Plus, a now defunct digital weather channel, which was carried on a subchannel of the NBC affiliate until the service went dark on December 31 last year.

Other than that, there is really no alternative programming to be had (that I am aware of) in northeastern Ohio on digital TV subchannels. Channel 5, the ABC affiliate in Cleveland, from what I have read, apparently doesn't believe in carrying subchannel programming; I don't think the others do either, except for the CBS affiliate's use of one of its subcarriers for the CBS digital weather channel, and channel 3 having used one of its digital channels for NBC Weather Plus until that service went dark.

Oh, well. All one can hope is that one of the channels picks up THIS-TV (RTN is either off the air for good or is struggling at this time, from what I've read; perhaps NowhereMan1966 will chime in and tell us more about whether RTN is at least available on the digital subcarriers of channel 11 in Pittsburgh) or any one of several other channels now available for retransmission over subchannels after the dust settles from the transition.

You rang?! Well, here in Pittsburgh, we still have RTN, but it is on 11.2 instead of 11.3 since NBC Weather kicked the bucket so RTN is still going strong here, Mom's watching it now. RTN always impressed me as a shoestring operation, I should e-mail them and tell them they have fans out here. KDKA-TV, channel 2 (25 UHF DTV) only broadcasts the main signal, no subchannels, I'd like them to put CW on a subchannel although CW will have it's own DTV station. WTAE-TV, channel 4 has weather on 4.2 so I use that instead of NBC Weather. We have three PBS channels a HDTV one, the main programming one and a subchannel featuring locally made documentaries.

Nearby markets, Steubenville, Ohio, 9.1 is NBC, 9.2 is RTN and 9.3 is weather radar. Wheeling, WV, WTRF, 7.1 is CBS, 7.2 is Fox and 7.3 is ABC, down there, ABC is hard to get since channel 4's analogue signal is tough to get, in fact, the digital one is easier to get usually. Johnstown, channel 6, WJAC also carries RTN as well. I can't get the Steubenville or Wheeling stations too well until they go back to their VHF channels, so I'll get a second RTN station.

[colorfixer]

I know its seems aggravating that most of the broadcasters will stick to the Feb 17 date, irrespective of any delay from the gov't. Here's the reasons why stations would stick to the deadline:

1. Stations would have to go along with a fixed schedule to change over if they need to swap their DTV assignments back to their analog assignment in order to allow for another station to occupy the former DTV assignment.

2. The amount of coordination to allow for station engineers to get together to do any alterations to a transmitter combiner in a shared antenna system/co-located transmitter site is mind boggling. I had to coordinate a tower maintenance day on a shared antenna system in FM broadcast environment, it was not unlike herding cats, very poorly behaved cats.

3. Many stations require(d) re-engineering to do the changeover, requiring specialized engineers which are hired guns, or tasked to care for a number of corporately owned stations. These people are over worked, and under paid and have to stick to a firm schedule due to sheer workload.

4. I'd wager that a few stations have leases at their present analog tx sites that expire at the end of February, giving them enough time to clear out their analog equipment by the end of that month.

5. $aving the dollars in a screwy economy that would pay for the energy bill to keep the analog transmitters lit up. Being in engineering, just getting the corporate bean counters off your back is more than worth it.

6. Fewer and fewer people use off air now than before, as a previous poster cited in San Diego. BTW: XETV will still be analog? The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. I'd like to see for myself what a full power VHF DTV signal would do over the flea power transmitters many are running now. The sheer frustration around here trying to get a solid lock from a 20 mile distant

7. Since the changeover has been in the works for a long time, many broadcasters have purchased new digital facilities, and have run their analog transmitters in "end of life" mode (read -into the ground). I know of at least a few stations in the northwest that have old transmitters from RCA and NEC that they just are limping along. Just trying to get a high power klystrode for some transmitters are almost as hard as getting a NIB 15GP22.

[OvenMaster]

My local ABC and PBS analog signals got turned off last December(!), and the CBS outlet is a Low Power transmitter which is scheduled to go digital... sometime. After February 17, all the stations in my area are going to shuffle their digital channels! Just to be on the safe side, I have my set-top box do a full auto scan once a week to catch all the changes.

[jhal]

I will be glad when all this is over with. You can't turn on any of the local channels without the countless ads, pop-ups, and banners on the screen about the switch. It's worse then election time with all the annoying crap aimed at the brain dead public that will scream and whine about not knowing about it. Sorry, rant over.