Looking for an older TV that will get channels 3, 5, 8

[Jeffhs]

I am looking for an older model TV that has a knob on the front that clicks, 12 positions, and will receive only channels 3, 5 and 8 from Cleveland, Ohio on an antenna. (I live in a small town 30+ miles from the city, and even further from its television towers.) I don't much care for DTV and its reception problems anymore, and frankly, I miss the old days when TVs had one large knob on the front (or the side) of the cabinet to change channels. As I do not care for most of the cable channels, a set with a standard tuner that only gets the three major networks and PBS would suit me just fine. My Roku streaming video player would probably get the retro TV channels (in my area, 5.2, 8.2, 19.2) and the PBS channel, so it wouldn't matter to me if the set had UHF or not.

Thanks.

[Chip Chester]

Many older sets will have those attributes, but I don't believe your antenna will see any tunable signals, unless those stations managed to keep low-power analog licenses for their original analog channels. Even then, the "low-power" side of the equation would be a deal-killer 30 miles out.

You could tune them with a converter box, or on your cable feed (if you have one) and re-modulate/distribute locally.

I believe there was a post here about 9 months ago about a Japan-market LCD tv with a physical tuning knob. Don't know if it was an actual product or just a design study.

Chip

[Jeffhs]

Originally Posted by Chip Chester

Many older sets will have those attributes, but I don't believe your antenna will see any tunable signals, unless those stations managed to keep low-power analog licenses for their original analog channels. Even then, the "low-power" side of the equation would be a deal-killer 30 miles out.

You could tune them with a converter box, or on your cable feed (if you have one) and re-modulate/distribute locally.

I believe there was a post here about 9 months ago about a Japan-market LCD tv with a physical tuning knob. Don't know if it was an actual product or just a design study.

Chip

Thank you for your reply and for the information on the Japanese-manufactured TV with standard tuners; however, I am looking for a Zenith or RCA set with such a tuning system. I had two Zenith color portables in the '80s, one of which was knob-tuned. They both had excellent pictures for their ages, but they were lost when I moved here 15 years ago. I should have kept the one with the standard tuners.

Why would any analog TV with an antenna not receive any of the local stations I've been watching as long as I can remember? Just because I live 30+ miles from the city of Cleveland (and perhaps 10-15 miles further from the TV stations' towers, which are all located in a southwestern suburb of the city) should not have any bearing on whether or not I would receive anything. Every one of Cleveland's television stations will reach at least 50 miles from the towers; channel 3, the NBC affiliate in Cleveland, for example, used to say in its sign-on announcement that its signal covers 17 counties in northeastern Ohio, and the other two (at the time) network affiliates could have made the same claim as well. I remember when folks living as far away as 75 miles from the stations could receive their signals with an antenna on a tower; in the '70s I knew someone in that area (Canton, Ohio, seventy miles southwest of Cleveland) who was getting all three network stations using just rabbit ears, and she was getting watchable pictures from all of them.

Why should DTV be any different? I've tried my flat-screen TV with an indoor DTV antenna, and was able to get every Cleveland TV station except channels 8 and 19. The reception is excellent, even at this distance. I'd be using an indoor antenna today if not for the fact that I do not receive the CBS affiliate on channel 19 with such an antenna. (Channel 8 is a Fox affiliate which I don't watch, so being unable to receive that station doesn't bother me.)

I believe all of DTV's reception problems in most if not all areas could be solved if the stations all had 300+-kW ERP signals, as they did before converting to digital. Channel 8, for instance, had a 312-kW ERP signal, and the other two were likely just as powerful. The ABC affiliate in Philadelphia recently applied for and was granted permission to increase its signal power, so as to improve its coverage area; why Cleveland's CBS affiliate, which had a 3.72-kW ERP analog signal, cannot do the same to eliminate the dead spots in its own coverage area is beyond me. Every viewer it loses because its DTV signal does not reach where the analog one did reach means lost advertising revenue, so it would be to its advantage to increase its DTV transmitter output to the maximum power allowed, which is five million watts ERP. The station's owner, Raycom Communications, already operates a translator station on channel 24; however, that one is for an area 60 miles southwest of here, too far away to be received at my location.

I also read somewhere that the CBS affiliate in Youngstown, Ohio on channel 27 is supposed to be a "fill-in" signal for areas that do not, for whatever reason, receive the Cleveland CBS affiliate; however, that doesn't work where I live--channel 27, or whatever DTV channel that station actually broadcasts on, is completely blank. I may look up channel 19 on Wikipedia and find out, once and for all, what its DTV coverage area is supposed to be.

I don't know if the FCC's ruling regarding "repacking" of the the remaining VHF and UHF TV stations in this country, which is expected to take effect next year some time, will have an effect on the problem of dead spots in DTV TV stations' coverage areas, but I will keep a close watch on the situation, waiting for news (if any) of actions that will eliminate these problems once and for all. Many TV viewers are using antennas again and are likely frustrated by not being able to receive every TV station in their areas just because those stations, often network affiliates as in my area, are lower power DTV ones.

[old_tv_nut]

Jeff,

To make it completely clear, the stations you asked about no longer broadcast analog signals. An analog set will receive nothing but digital "snow."

From the 2015 Television and Cable Factbook:

WEWS-TV (ABC) digital on RF channel 15; 1000 kw authorized; ceased analog operations June 12, 2009

WJW (FOX) digital on RF channel 8; 11 kw authorized; ceased analog operation June 12, 2009

WKYC (NBC) digital on RF channel 17; 868 kw authorized; ceased analog operation June 12, 2009

[I don't see a listing for CBS]

[Chip Chester]

You wrote:
"I don't much care for DTV and its reception problems anymore, " Sorry. Aside from LPTV, it's the only terrestrial over-the-air option. You could use cable, satellite, or internet, of course.

An analog TV with an antenna will "receive" DTV (the only thing being broadcast except for LPTV) but it will not tune/demod and show it to you. It also receives cell phone signals and air traffic control signals, but you can't view them either.

And... "Why would any analog TV with an antenna not receive any of the local stations I've been watching as long as I can remember?" Because DTV is not viewable directly on an analog TV. You can use a converter box, but no clicky knob on them, (and it's not an analog TV receiver, it's a DTV receiver with an NTSC re-modulator.)

Also, the Japanese TV with knob is not a "standard" tuner, if you mean analog NTSC. It is ATSC, with a more traditional simulation of its human interface. It's probably got way more than 12 channel detents. And you probably do a scan for channels, select your "keepers", and then assign them to the rotary knob. At least that's the way I'd design it. So, you could get your big 3 plus PBS, but you'd have to scan for all of 'em, and decide what to keep.

Grab some iced tea, settle in, and read this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC

Then drive down the street on trash day, grab the first CRT TV you see curbside, plug it in to an antenna pointed at Cleveland, and go fishin'. You may see LPTV stations from this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC
but don't hold your breath for Lester Holt or Scott Pelley.

For details of the federally-mandated analog to digital conversion, read this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WEAO_%28TV%29
specifically under the heading analog-to-digital conversion.

Note that WEAO's sub-channels have 4:3 aspect ratio, 480i programming available. But regardless of the aspect ratio and number of scan lines, it's a DTV signal, requiring a DTV tuner or converter box to view. As it happens, the resulting image would map fairly nicely to an old-style TV set with a detent-tune knob. But you would still have that inescapable, pesky "DTV and its reception problems..."

With few exceptions, this has been the case since probably 2009.

Chip

[Jon A.]

So let me get this straight... cable service is needed to enable a Roku box? I thought they pulled their content entirely from the internet.

I miss the days when cable channel numbers didn't go any higher than the double-digits. I wasn't around when knob-tuning was the norm. I mostly recall analog cable converter boxes with LED readout, sometimes paired with flat-pan descramblers.

[Eric H]

Originally Posted by Jon A.

So let me get this straight... cable service is needed to enable a Roku box? I thought they pulled their content entirely from the internet.

It does, the only reason you would need Cable is if your cable company is also your ISP.

[Chip Chester]

Roku "works best" with broadband internet services, which the majority of customers get thru cable providers.

It is unlikely that the full lineup of the local station is available on Roku in real time. Some network shows are available on-demand the next day. Some premium cable/satellite packages are available either direct from source or in conjunction with your cable/satellite subscription. Network news shows and PBS offerings are more widely available, either directly or thru proprietarty "apps" which "enhance viewer experiences" and the network's income.

Sling TV seems to be putting together a "cable-cutter" offering. The upcoming version of Apple TV looks to be going down the same path.

Chip

[jr_tech]

Originally Posted by old_tv_nut

WEWS-TV (ABC) digital on RF channel 15; 1000 kw authorized; ceased analog operations June 12, 2009

WJW (FOX) digital on RF channel 8; 11 kw authorized; ceased analog operation June 12, 2009

WKYC (NBC) digital on RF channel 17; 868 kw authorized; ceased analog operation June 12, 2009

[I don't see a listing for CBS]

The City of license of the Cleveland area CBS affiliate (WOIO) is Shaker Heights.

From Wikipedia: "WOIO shut down its analog signal, over UHF channel 19, on June 12, 2009"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WOIO

jr

[Ed in Tx]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

I am looking for an older model TV that has a knob on the front that clicks, 12 positions, and will receive only channels 3, 5 and 8 ...

Crank up the Way Back Machine and set it to 1955... We had only ch's 4,5 and 8 then. They all transmitted from the same tower with a candelabra on top the held 3 antennas. And the old Zenith Walton only had 12 positions on the tuner.

[zeno]

jeffhs

First off DTV is go/no go. It can not display a snowy or
otherwise bad pix. Your CBS signal is probably there by
no good enuf. A rotor antenna is probably what you need.
The range is limited so no more fringe/ deep fringe reception.

You prob got them all before because CATV would convert all
HDTV to NTSC or there own digital system that the box decodes.

Your best bet for locals is the biggest UHF/VHF antenna & rotor
you can get. IIRC you have a flat screen already that is HDTV.

73 Zeno

[Electronic M]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

I am looking for an older model TV that has a knob on the front that clicks, 12 positions, and will receive only channels 3, 5 and 8 from Cleveland, Ohio on an antenna. (I live in a small town 30+ miles from the city, and even further from its television towers.) I don't much care for DTV and its reception problems anymore, and frankly, I miss the old days when TVs had one large knob on the front (or the side) of the cabinet to change channels. As I do not care for most of the cable channels, a set with a standard tuner that only gets the three major networks and PBS would suit me just fine. My Roku streaming video player would probably get the retro TV channels (in my area, 5.2, 8.2, 19.2) and the PBS channel, so it wouldn't matter to me if the set had UHF or not.

Thanks.

Either this is a joke, your trolling, you've forgotten a bunch of things you used to know, or you've finally lost it....I'm not sure which.

[truetone36]

Analog TV has sadly gone the way of running boards and has been gone for six years now.

[WISCOJIM]

Originally Posted by Electronic M

Either this is a joke, your trolling, you've forgotten a bunch of things you used to know, or you've finally lost it....I'm not sure which.

Unfortunately a lot of his prior posts also show little understanding of the digital takeover. He just doesn't get it.

.

[Electronic M]

Originally Posted by WISCOJIM

Unfortunately a lot of his prior posts also show little understanding of the digital takeover. He just doesn't get it.

.

For a while quite a long ways ago he sounded like he knew about the DTV transition....I really need to stop reading his posts...75% of the time they are just repetitive babble with inaccurate conjecture, written in a way that consumes as much space as possible....