Rider, Sams now online at the Early Televison Museum site

[Steve McVoy]

Tom Albrecht has made high quality scans of Rider and Sams data for many early sets. We are adding them to our site:

http://www.earlytelevision.org/tv_sc..._diagrams.html

[kx250rider]

That's a heck of a lot of work, and I appreciate that! I have a set of bootlegged Sams folders 1-150, but those exclude a lot of significant TVs. I've never seen TV Rider manuals scanned, but would happily pay into a pool if someone wants to (legally) do that. I have Rider Radio I-XXIII on a licensed DVD.

Charles

[Phil Nelson]

What a great idea, and the ETF site is the ideal place to host them. The Riders and Sams for old radios were digitized years ago. It's about time that the TV world caught up.

I know how tedious it is to scan these things. Today I was scanning a super-sized schematic in pieces and gritting my teeth the whole way. This effort will be appreciated by many others.

Phil Nelson

[Findm-Keepm]

Just curious, but when did Sams come into the public domain?

My full disclosure: I once worked for a company that wanted to post Sams excerpts to the web, but the company attorneys let us know that Sams had exercised their extension rights on the original copyrights. Sams would be happy to license the rights for $$, but the bosses balked at that, thinking they had read the copyright rules correctly.

A Google search of the "Catalog of Copyright entries" (a Library of Congress publication) confirms that Sams did extend the copyrights in 1964-1976 for early Photofacts (sets 1 - 198, all I could find). Question is, for how long?

[Tom Albrecht]

Hi Brian,

I looked into this a few years back, and searched both the hardcopy Catalog of Copyright Entries books at the San Jose Library and also the online catalogs at the USPTO. I found evidence of the original copyrights for Sams Photofacts, but found no evidence whatsoever for renewals. Since renewals were required, copyrights on pre-1964 Photofacts expired if they were not renewed.

From your post, it sounds like you may also have done this kind of search and found evidence of renewal. If so, can you provide specific information where I can confirm it?

I would be more than happy to respect any in-force copyrights that Sams may have. I've only provided them for posting at ETF on the conclusion from my earlier research that pre-1964 Sams Photofacts are no longer protected by copyright.

If it turns out that all Sams Photofacts are under valid copyright protection, we'll stick to posting only Rider TV material, and remove the Sams.

By the way, the Rider TV material is, in my opinion, even more useful than the Sams. There is a lot more detail there, expecially text explanation of how the circuitry is designed, etc.

Tom

[Steve McVoy]

I got a message from the COO of Sams. I will be talking to him next week to see if they did, in fact, renew the copyright on the pre-1964 folders. If they can provide me with evidence that they did, I'll be removing the Sams scans from my site.

[kx250rider]

Originally Posted by Steve McVoy

I got a message from the COO of Sams. I will be talking to him next week to see if they did, in fact, renew the copyright on the pre-1964 folders. If they can provide me with evidence that they did, I'll be removing the Sams scans from my site.

Dang scrooges! Don't mess with them, though. They have very large, heavy fists when it comes to what they perceive to be piracy. Just cooperate, and among us on AK, we will ensure that all Sams are available free or at-cost to fellow collectors. I bet one of our offshore AK members would host them for you, from a country without copyright cooperation with the USA.

Charles

[WISCOJIM]

Originally Posted by Steve McVoy

I got a message from the COO of Sams. I will be talking to him next week to see if they did, in fact, renew the copyright on the pre-1964 folders. If they can provide me with evidence that they did, I'll be removing the Sams scans from my site.

I myself contacted the COO, Richard White, about this very issue in the past. Here is the answer that I posted to another forum in 2005:



Newsgroups: rec.antiques.radio+phono
From: "jim menning" <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 18:10:08 GMT
Local: Tues, Apr 26 2005 1:10 pm
Subject: Re: DeoxIT brand cleaner by CAIG Laboratories


For those wondering about copying or selling Sams items, I had reason
to contact Richard A. White, the Chief Operating Officer of Sams last
year in regards to copyright questions.

My question: "Are all old Sam's publications still protected
by your copyrights, or are some available for distribution
(public domain)?"


The answer: "My official stance is that I'd prefer others
don't sell copies of my manuals, but the reality is that
over the years, Sams (Howard W. Sams & Co.) didn't renew
some of the copyrights. Thus any manual from Sams
produced prior to 1961 is considered public domain."

[Tom Albrecht]

One thing that has improved since my original search for Sams copyright renewals in 2007 is that the Catalog of Copyright Entries has now been digitized by Google and can be viewed online! (as Brian mentioned above)

So... I've looked again, both in the online Catalog of Copyright Entries, which goes up to 1977 (and should therefore contain the required renewals after 28 years of things originally copyrighted up to 1949, which includes some of the first Sams sets), and also in the online records from the U.S. Copyright Office, which go from 1978 to present (and therefore should contain renewals for things published up to 1963, after which no renewal was required).

I have not found a single Sams renewal of a Photofact set. The renewals should have entries that start with "R." Maybe I'm not looking properly? If someone can find the renewal entries, it would be very helpful.

Given Jim's info above (and another similar response from Sams to an inquiry by someone else), I think we're in the clear. Anyone disagree?

[Findm-Keepm]

First and foremost, I'm not a lawyer, simply a layman with limited knowledge of copyright law. I'm also not a nay-sayer - I happen to love the idea of a common resource area for us collectors and restorers.

I found that while a Sams may have a copyright notice and date, the actual copyright registration date is very often much later than the publication date.

Sams Set 8 was produced in 1946 - but the copyright registration date is 10 December 1949:

Sams Folders 5-9 registration

Sams Set 93 was produced in 1950 - the copyright registration date is 15 January 1968:

Sams Sets 89-95 registration

Publication date is what the law uses and is (hopefully) different from the registration date, I believe. Then again, I'm no lawyer. How the law treats the copyrights is unclear - perhaps Sams COO can clear this up.

Interestingly enough, I've never found an entry in the Catalog of Copyright Entries for Sams PF Reporter, the magazine that Sams put out with articles on TV repair. I have seen those articles posted to the web before.

Hopefully, in the end, all of my comments will be reduced to Chicken-Little nonsense.

Cheers,

[Tom Albrecht]

Hi Brian,

Couple of things: When you see a Sams "volume" in the Catalog, it's referring to the full binder. For example, "volume 5" is sets 41-50. So that's why you're seeing "volume 8" (sets 71-80) in 1949. That's more or less the same year as publication.

Your first link is for the original copyright of volumes 5-9 (sets 41-89). This expired after 28 years if not renewed.

Your second link is for the original copyright of volumes 89-95 (sets 881-950). These were originally published in 1967, and what you have found, again, is the original copyright. This one is still in force.

What's missing are the renewals for pre-1964 stuff, which should have appeared within 28 years from the original publication date. If you find some of those (with an entry starting with "R") then we have something to worry about. Have you found anything like that?

[Findm-Keepm]

Originally Posted by Tom Albrecht

Hi Brian,

What's missing are the renewals for pre-1964 stuff, which should have appeared within 28 years from the original publication date. If you find some of those (with an entry starting with "R") then we have something to worry about. Have you found anything like that?

Nope - and thanks for clearing that up. I thought of the volume possibility too, but couldn't find a Volume/Edition on any of my Sams ( I have from Sams 2-Sams 1912 ). My Sams are all Photofact-of-The-Month editions, with all the "extras" - TV courses, PF Servicer, etc. I've seen Sams bound in books for libraries - and I sold them in the early 1980's when I worked for a local parts house.

But no, I've not seen an "R" prefixed entry, nor any evidence of renewal on anything except my 1967 and 1971 editions of the Sams Tube Substitution Guide.

Kinda odd that Sams, a publisher, with Photofact no doubt the breadwinner of their many publications, wouldn't renew a copyright. Just goes to show that not everyone back then could envision today's technology, the internet, global "commons", and folks like us addicted to mid-20th century technology.

If ya come across a set you need, lemme know. I'm not blessed with space, so my only acquisitions are trade-ups, so I need less than I have and can loan out Sams kinda freely.

BTW, my brother has the Sams Set 1 - he got it before I got the entire collection from my Dad. Dad sold the Sams he had that were newer than Set 1912.

Cheers,