Are they f***ing kidding??
 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MakeTrack=true

This seller aquired a number of record players in varying states of decay from an estate sale and thinks they're going to turn around and make a mint. The above example is simply the most egregious. :no:

Whats the deal? His prices don't seem outrageous, do they? I don't know that they'll all sell, but nothing wrong with running it up the flagpole and seeing if someone salutes.

I'm ignant, I don't know what egregious means. Sounds like that rash I get on the bottom of my feet during the summer.

Cheers,
Russ

They sell the plastic replica's nowadays for $150. I'd much rather have the original in a state of decay than the plastic crap they peddle now.

Mike

I beleive it's a favorite word of the legal profession.

egregious
adj : conspicuously and outrageously bad or reprehensible; "a
crying shame"; "an egregious lie"; "flagrant violation
of human rights"; "a glaring error"; "gross
ineptitude"; "gross injustice"; "rank treachery" [syn:
crying, flagrant, glaring, gross, rank]

That thing really isn't in all that bad shape, peel the stickers off, clean it (especially that dial face :yuck: ) and hit it with some wood polish, it'd prolly look about as good as new. Hell, it even still has the original schematic and a fairly clean chassis. That said, it's definitely not worth $150 to me, but it's not an absolutely absurd price for that. Some of his other prices are kinda bordering on absurd, but simple laws of economics will take care of that and we'll see those relisted for less, probably a couple of times before they finally sell.

Edit: I also just noticed there aren't reserves on that stuff, so it's likely it'll go cheaper than the BIN. If it was closer I might even go for that Grundig console he has starting for $200...

Those prices seem pretty high but not higher really than is often asked in antique stores, this is where the seller probably got their reference prices...have not seen old phonographs really sell much at these prices though. Most of these type of units need a lot of work on the phono to get it working...new rubber drive wheel, new cartridge and stylus, plus electronic repairs such as capacitors and wiring.

That's a pretty high price for that machine, IMHO. The problem with the record players of that vintage, is that the idler wheel (the rubber thing that drives the turntable) is almost certainly shot at this point. The rubber just dries up and ages. Getting replacement parts for these is pretty much impossible, and while there are services out there to repair/re-rubber the wheels, I haven't heard of anyone that's had good luck with one.

This is a major reason why the slightly larger raidio/phono combination consoles are worth so much less than console radios are - the phono part doesn't work, and probably never will.

I have the exact same set I think, although in much worse shape. While most stuff is there, save for some tubes, it's got peeling veneer and damaged dial cover, and needs grill cloth and more. But, then again, I paid a buck for it, so I can't complain too much...

-Ian

I don't think the prices are out of line. I too have seen those cheesy Chinese new replica record players priced higher than this. I would much rather have an old junky original for that price than those imitation wood replicas.

The prices for this seller's items are definitely out of line for their condition. They're unrestored, as found, relics. How we got onto the subject of those reproductions (which I too wouldn't ever buy) is a mystery to me. They are an entirely different issue. You wouldn't really rather have an old beat up piece o' junk, you just don't hold it in contempt like you do the repro. But you still don't buy it. Not for $150! Fully restored antique radios do command premium prices, as they should, but the example I posted above is not especially desirable in any condition. It is a $5 Goodwill item that could become worth somewhere near money this seller wants for it if it were both cosmetically and electronically restored.

Well, the market will decide that, for 25 of his radio listings, in a little under 4 days from now.

Cheers,
Russ

Phonographs are a long way from being obsolete, as many folks (such as some of our own members here at AK with their 3-way TV consoles, not to mention our members in the audio forums who all but swear by vinyl, contending that vinyl records sound better than even the best cassettes or CDs), have old vinyl records they still listen to on occasion. I can't believe it is "pretty much impossible" these days to get replacements for phonograph idler wheels. If a brand new (NOS or NIB) replacement isn't available (I think that's what you meant), a used one could always be taken from a junked turntable or changer. That's what I would do if I were restoring a vintage phono, radio-phono or three-way combo.

I'm not saying that it's impossible to get parts for record players, I'm just saying that it's nearly impossible to get parts for _this_ record player, and others of this vintage. The early electric machines, such as this one, play only 78RPM records. They typically use steel needles (or something similar) and a crystal pickup. The drive motor drives the turntable by way of a very specific rubber wheel that would normally be unique to the model of phonograph. These 78RPM machines are now over 50 years old, and the rubber is almost certainally going to be bad. I don't think I've ever seen one in serviceable condition. And I can't imagine that there would have survived any NOS parts in useable condition after all these years. On top of that, the pickup will typically be dead - the crystal pickups tend to absorb moisture from the air, and then no longer are able to function - they won't be able to convert the vibrations from the needle into electrical signals. They'll literally go 'dead' and produce no signal at all. Also, the needles for these are pretty hard to find. Aside from being hard on the records, they wear out pretty quickly, and are only really good for maybe 20-40 plays. One step up from the wind-up Victrola type needles. The arms also track at a couple ounces, compare that to the couple of grams that a more modern magnetic pickup uses.

It's just that the crucial parts of these types of machines, the 40's vintage 78RPM phonographs, don't age well due to the materials involved. The affects of the air and atmosphere on rubber and the crystal pickup is going to be nearly unavoidable. Even if you find a working pickup and a rubber idler that hasn't dried out, I wouldn't imagine that either would last very long. I have many of these types of machines, and have never seen a rubber idler in serviceable condition, and I've only come across one crystal cartridge that still produced a signal - although it was pretty weak.

But, I am not saying that it's going to be totally impossible to make one of these work, I'm sure that there's an AK'er with a working, electric, 40's era 78RPM only machine, but I'm also sure that there are a lot more AK'ers with non-working ones. I'm also sure that if you search long enough, you could probably turn up some NOS idler wheels and pickups - but it'll be hit-or-miss finding parts still in useable condition - a lot of never-used crystal cartridges have failed, right in the box, and are no longer useable, simply because of the effects of time and the atmosphere.

All this being said, these phographs are still pretty primitive. Narrow frequency response, poor speed control, heavy tracking force and damaging needles all contribute to pretty mediocre performace. 78's can sound pretty good when played on the proper equipment. This isn't the proper equipment. The more modern, 50's vintage machines will work much better, magnetic pickups, quieter and smoother motors, etc. I've found that just about the best thing to play 78's on is an old portable classroom style phonograph such as a Newcomb or an old Audiotronics (preferably the tube models). These things were made _very_ well, and work reliably and easily. The Powerpoint type needles are still fairly available and are also very easy on the records. Now, I wouldn't suggest playing modern LP's or 45's a lot on these machines, the tracking force is a little much for those, but it won't phase a 78.

Meh. I'm rambling again. Never post to AK at 1AM when you can't sleep...

-Ian

There are actually several guys out there who will retread your idler wheels for you for a rather modest fee. I've lost his business card, but there is one guy who always comes to the Michigan radio shows who does nothing but repair and remanufacture idler tires for these old old phonographs. It's usually not necessary to get a donor parts set.

I've dealt with the seller before. He's a royal jerk if you do pickup. Cash only, still nails you for tax, had to lug a console down 4 BIG flights of stairs myself. No help, no elevator. Oh yeah, and he moaned and bitched when he had to make change. :thumbsdn:

He gets the descriptions 'mostly' right, though. But man, what a PITA to deal with...

I have restored several 40's era 78 rpm consoles, not that difficult. The idlers
can be re-built and so can the crystal pick-ups if you inisist on authenticity.
I usually modfiy them to use a more modern ceramic or magnetic.
On the better machines, the frequency repsponse is no more limited than the
78's they play. A few such as the top of the line RCA (over five grand in 1948)
will rival equipment made today.