WHY so few "other brands' left out there?( Admiral, Sylvania , Philco, etc)
 

In the tv collecting realm--we all seem to come up with plenty of RCA and Zenith color sets, from the Hybrid days. Every so often a sylvania or magnavox will turn up too..but I have NOT heard ANY mention of any hybrid or even SS 25 inch admirals or ohilco sets. I have had a COUPLE of these sets..back in the day (the 1980's..) NOT ONE since then.

I was at my garage today and picked up the manuals to the admiral M20 and M25 sets. I have had one of each. the M20 has 7 tubes--the M25 is SS. Both Have tripler Hv.

The M25 I found in an alley, on the porch of a house and it was given to me--fall of 1983. It had a pretty bad westinghouse tube--and after milking all of the life possible out of that one..i replaced it with a Zenith chromacolor tube I had It worked VERY well, for several years. Then, it developd a "sync problem" i could not figure out, having no manual for it and misled by a "tech" to believe it had bad caps in the power supply...I was unable to fix it (at the time). later--the same chassis live dn i another cabinet--when I got another sync/agc module. had I been told RIGHT...I could have used that set for years more...

The M20 I received in 1981, and was not able to keep it long...I wish i could have.

Now--I want MORE of them. But they NEVER seem to show up. Why?

Is it because that Pix tube was a westinghouse and GARBAGE? THIS is my guess--the tubes were no good--sending them to an early grave.

Of course--I relaize there were far FEWER of the than the RCA's and Zeniths..but STILL...we should see one "here and there"...but we do NOT.

I didn't know that there are fewer RCAs and Zeniths than the other brands mentioned. I would certainly like to have examples of most others mentioned. I was concentrating mostly on Space Command remotes for my collection, but now I just grab whatever takes my fancy, i.e. NOS ultrasonic remotes for Hitachi and Admiral sets, the latter having a full RAT keypad and packaged with a sensor as models with the RA suffix are easily converted according to the box.

Anyway, maybe since RCA and Zenith "started it all" in regards to color sets, they're the ones that turn up most frequently online? Most people are clueless about old TVs, perhaps those big names just ring a bell for them like nothing else. Here in Canada there's no telling what you'll find, different sets just pop up at random, the emphasis in my area is usually late 80s/early 90s RCA consoles with the CTC157.

Brand doesn't matter a whole lot to me, I like several different makes, but I just prefer Zenith as it seems less "trendy" than RCA. To be honest, the remote mechanical tuner is what I like best about my flatty, it would just be another 70s set to me without it, but with a far longer-lasting CRT.

No...there are few few OTHER brands..than RCA and Zenith sets....and you are right--there are ALWAYS ctc-149-157 sets out there, plentiful and cheap...but I am NOT interested. I don't have room for them, I want the "good stuff"..

Same here, the two identical 157s I had are now furniture. Picked them up before I had any good stuff of my own.

I passed up an Admiral Solar-color console from 1970 not too long ago. Had no way to haul it at the time. But yes, I have a large collection of SAMS manuals and there are many obscure brands listed which I have NEVER seen in my life.

Funny... In the "Small" TVs right after the War, it seems like the Admirals, Motorolas, Pilots, even my beloved "Porthole" Zeniths seem to be more common than RCAs... Seemed like, as recently as 10 years ago, Eprey was FULL of the 7" Bakelite Admirals, & the 3" Pilots were common as pig tracks..

In over 25 years of finding TV's, I've never had an Admiral console color TV or any type and I can count on one hand the number of Admiral color portables that I've had (one 14" hybrid portable and two '79 model 19" solid state portables and one of those was a rebadged Ward's Airline).

As far as tube stuff, RCA, Magnavox and Zenith were my most common finds, with a few sprinklings from GE, Motorola, Sylvania, Sears, and Western Auto. The Zenith's and RCA's often remained in service until the early '90's and the Magnavox models stayed around because they had nice cabinets; but, they probably had not actually worked in ages.

I think the main reason you don't see these other brands is because they didn't stand the test of time and were dumped at an early age.

I think part of it may just be that many brands did not have the wide distribution and/or service networks of RCA and maybe Zenith. Admiral, for example, was a big brand in the early days of black-and-white TV, but did they ever have much of a presence in the console color-TV market? We all talk of sets lasting for years and the visits by TV repairmen, but was that really true of portable TV sets through the tube years?

This one's pretty cool and unusual, it's one of those Quasar "Electronic Satellite" remote sets probably from the late 70s. Price is pretty good in my opinion. Penney's sold them as well, I have a remote so branded.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291206388333

If those 7" B&W sets are so common, later-model color sets other than Zenith and RCA ought to be coming out of the woodwork not too long from now.

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Its mostly a matter of numbers.
Between RCA & Zenith they made abt half the TV's sold from the
60's through 80's. I dont remember the numbers but they
were followed by GE, Sears, Maggy, Sylvania then the rest.

Quality. RCA & Zenith were the expensive sets. You did get what
you paid for. They just held up longer & were kept longer.
Maggy also was but it was the cabinet not the guts that cost $$.

Easy to deal with. Both were the easiest to get parts & service help
for. Most worked on more of them than anything else so it
became 2nd nature. So repairs were done on them that most
sets would be junked for, it just made life easier so more survived.

How you count them. Sears was Sears. Not counted as a Toshiba,
Warwick or Sanyo. GE made a ton of private label also. RCA & Zenith didnt
private label til late. First RCA prob. early 80's for Radio Shack.
Zenith was abt late 80's in a Capehart.

73 Zeno:smoke:

I think RCA made some TV's for JC Penny during the '70's. I remember seeing a CTC68 upright modular chassis XL100 that was badged as JC Penny. I've seen some Wards TV's that were rebadged Sylvania, Admiral, and Sharp. Wells-Gardner built a good many TV's for W.T. Grant, Western Auto, and JC Penny. Western Auto also used GE, Sharp, Admiral, and Midland for TV suppliers.

My M25 in 1983 was also an airline labelled set--but the chassis had the "M25" stamp right on it. Obviously an admiral. Original, bad tube was a westinghouse SHITTY tube--otherwise...I would have NEVER gotten it, and it would have ran quite a while longer for the original owner.

I WILL say THIS about the "M" series Admiral sets:: They sure were FUSED well!! I think my set had 3 fuses...and that M20 hybrid had SIX fuses from what I see in the manual !!

Back "in the day".(1980's), I saw a number of the "other brands". I had ONE of those 73 or so model Philco SS sets--with SCR deflection..the ONLY one I have EVER seen. I had a few of the GE "M" series sets, MA, MB MC. IIRC..they liked to kill triplers. I ran across probably a dozen admiral sets, mostly SS, both console and portable. M10, M16, M25, M50 (iirc). I fixed--then sold, most of them. Still have a YM GE set with digital tuning, 1979. Also one EM digital set--1981. No real prize--a "griplet" set.

I had ONE of the "Teknika" console sets, IIRC_-and it ALSO had SCR defleection, 1987 or 1988.

And in that day--I ALSO ran across a few of the 13" Zenith chromacolor II sets. Fixed ALL of them, IIRC.

I agree with most of what's already been posted. People were brand loyal back in the day, and a brand of television was more of a "status" symbol. In the Midwest area where I grew up, it was almost all Zenith or RCA. In the mid-late 70's my hometown of 2000, had us ( A Zenith dealer) * we also sold GTE Philcos as a secondary line. We had the RCA Magnavox dealer and a Sylvania dealer. In that era, on house calls, or walk in's, it was mainly RCA & Magnavox sets we were seeing. We had a handful of Quasars, a few Truetones and a few Coronados ( we also had a Western Auto and Gambles) I think I only remember 1 Admiral that we serviced.
Even living in Omaha now, when I go to estate sales, I only see RCA and Zenith consoles. In the mid 90's my now ex-wife had a late 70's / early 80's Admiral console, which was the "newest" Admiral I have seen in years, and I've never seen another one. That set had a weak picture tube, and we replaced that set with my console, which was a Quasar ( rebadged Panasonic) which ended up having a short lived picture tube.

we saw sylvanias 5 to 1 over all other sets here.now,not one in sight.saw many philcos,sears,etc.admirals were scarce as were jc penny and box store brands.

Some things to know. RCA and Zenith were much better on making sets which stood the test of time, and they had parts and service support networks which were the best of the breed. Their sets aged better. Motorola, Magnavox, Philco, Sylvania, and the lesser brands along with GE tended to be less well supported when they got older or were less reliable with age. So, that accounts for the high presence of those brands. Magnavox made pretty fine sets, but their parts network was horrible to independent service shops who had to buy their Magnavox parts from Magnavox Home Entertainment Centers (some of those dealers would not sell parts over the counter). Philco also practiced similar tactics which many servicers highly disliked. And that also meant some sets got replaced sooner than planned.

So...THAT is why there seems to be LESS chance of me coming up with a Philco 3CS or 3CY80 or 90 chassis (the one philco had with SCR deflection I think the ONLY one they had like that, 1973 or 74)..or an Admiral M20, M24 or M25 set, or a Sylvania E0-1 or E02 set... there seems to be MORE chance of me finding a CTC-4 or 5 set, or even a CT-100...than one of those early 1970's SS sets...

Does NOT seem to be possible...but evidently it IS.

And it is all because of poor parts/service info in the old days...


And I ALSO think the tubes must not have been too good in them either...but maybe I am wrong about that.

One way or the other....ALL of them have seemed to ended up in the packer trucks some time ago...but those OLD , BW philco and Admiral sets ALWAYS pop up !!

Those early Trinitrons seem to be quite plentiful, in spite of how crappy many of them are and the poor parts distribution back in their day.

Another decade or so and those early SS sets will start popping up in decent numbers I reckon. Even the 621TS is breeding like rabbits now.

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I'd like to get my hands on a Sony set that will work with my original Remote Commander. It isn't high on my priority list though. Not many of those made I hear, and they're probably from before those units that use the SG-613 transistors.

RCA and Zenith were the best represented set makers. Their parts and service support, were second to none! The Motorola distributor was great too.
They had an Electronic Engineer on staff at all three distributors. There wasn't too much that they couldn't find a solution for.
Admiral and GE distribution was corporate owned.
In the mid-to-later 80's, everything seemed to fall apart. Everything changed!
Parts were a lot harder to get.
That's when I bailed out of TV repairing. :scratch2:

http://www.visions4.net/journal/wp-c...ace_525-WP.jpg
Sony Trinitrons were and continue to this day to be the most reliable color CRT televisions.

KV 7010UA and KV 1210U purchased in 1969 working perfectly without a service until 2006 when they were given away by my wife by mistake. 37 years of reliability. I still have my original KV 1722 purchased in 1973. Not one single service since purchased and it continues to display a beautiful image after 41 years of operation. That is what I call reliability. Screenshots from my Sony KV 1722.

http://www.visions4.net/journal/wp-c...hil_525-WP.jpg

Seems to be hit or miss with these Sony sets. They're complained about a lot of the time, yet some seem to hold up forever.

I think one can only speculate about the lack of other brands, we'll never know for sure. Makes them more interesting to some when they are found. I tune out whenever I hear of a chassis starting with CTC. My 1978 XL-100 is an exception to the rule, plain but looks good to me. It would have been ratted for parts otherwise.

I do NOT "tune out" for CTC #'s--but I DO want to know WHICH # they are. The CTC 74/81 direct address set seems to be harder for me to get than a CTC-5. Again--I feel it is because the tubes were not too good in them--and so when they died for good...so did the sets.

But I would have NEVER guessed that a 1957 CTC-5--found today--would have a BETTER tube--than a 1976-78 CTC-74/81. But is SEEMS to be that way.

I would never 'tune out' a nice later CTC set. I am fond of the CTC-117 and 121

To each his own. The more common something is, the easier I get bored with it. I rarely get excited about anything made outside the 70s now. An early XL console with motor-driven turret tuner would appeal to me, especially one on legs (Danish Modern?) but not much else RCA.

By the way, there's a GoldStar console in my local listings right now with cat-scratched speaker cloth. Never knew GoldStar consoles existed. Probably a piece of crap.

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The trouble with weak Sony CRTs, aside from their not taking rejuvenation is that they can only be replaced with other Sony CRTs. Lots of RCA-supplied CRTs in sets of other makes, even the rotting Canadian-model Hitachi I picked up had a RCA CRT and yoke, which I still have along with most of the other parts.

Why would anyone want to put a non Sony CRT in a Sony set?

The Trinitron one gun with three inline cathodes is what set Sony apart from all others with its superior focusing and lack of a need for convergence adjustments.

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That's exactly what I meant. Kind of like the SG-613 transistors, it's OEM or no-go.

Several years back, I installed a Sylvania CRT in a Zenith set.
The picture is great, but the curvature of the CRT, is totally different. It doesn't fit the mask. There's a 3/4 inch gap, between the CRT and the cutout of the cabinet.
The end results! Two pieces of junk, made into one! :yes:
Same difference! :thumbsdn:

But MOST of the time--one can do that--with NO problem. I have done it a lot, back in 'the day". An RCA tube (IIRC ) into a philco hybrid. Worked VERY well--NO gaps. A Zenith Chromacolor tube into an Admiral M25. Fit and worked VERY well.

If a tube fits right and is the same--even simliar electrically--it will normally work.. NOT on a junkatron though. They HAVE to be exact.

Yeah, it sucks about the curvature of some screens being different. Nevertheless, Sony aside, I never know which CRTs will fit which sets until they're actually in, so I keep any from older sets I scrap. Seems that RCA supplied CRTs to many TV manufacturers though.

Perhaps the mounting points alone were causing the problem with the fit? I'm unclear on this, but it sounds like the 3/4" gap was all the way around.

One the top and bottom, that gap was larger. The side, not so!
The manufacturers didn't have that many variations on the mounting configurations on CRT's made in the mid to late 70's.
A 23V or 25V, was about the same, no matter what firm built it. There was no problem making them fit.
Even if it had a tension band, it would fit.
No so, in the later CRT issues. :scratch2:

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I was thinking about the time when the Trinitron was first introduced. Decades later, other manufactures caught up to a certain degree but could never duplicate the Trinitron until Sony's Patent expired in 1996.

The Trinitron only requires 6 picture tube adjustment controls compared to 24 in the typical shadow mask of that period. The cathode are in one plane as opposed to different planes in the shadow mask system of that time period. The Trinitron uses no convergence yoke, instead 4 electrostatic convergence plates. Vertical mis convergence is impossible in a Trinitron tube, therefor vertical convergence control is not required. Only small horizontal corrections are needed left and right, also the vertical stripes make beam landing errors less sensitive to the Earths magnetic field.

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Don't forget the RCA -based tube with in-lne gun and the "magnetized tape" band over the end of the gun--for convergence. These usually required NO convergence adjustments--that tape did it all, set from the factory. Those tubes were not too bad , either. They hold up a LOT better than the JUNKatron tubes do !! JUNKatrons had an incredible picture...for a short time..before they died and could NOT be brought back. NOT really worth the premium Sony charged for them, often with a shitty, hot chassis to boot.