Another treasure(s) destroyed GE Locomotive
 

Hello folks, In the last week I have had 3 Zenith Owl's of various forms destroyed even after warning the seller to package them carefully and the result of the 3 previous destroyed radios that were not shipped properly. What do I get? 3 radios that just about fit in the box shipped in with everything from shopping bags, dead air pillows and other trash used as packing material.
Now to the worst of all. I just received my first GE Loco and the shipper promised that it would be shipped in a custom crate made by him and his mate. What I got was a wooden crate A+. However it had that 1/2" Styrofoam board 1 layer per side, fully touching the 1/8" plywood of unknown Asian origin. The result is a broken GE Locomotive. That's it I give up on humanity.:butt1:
If you read this forum Seller, it is what it is. I am extremely angry right now another one of a kind rendered to scrap.

On another note does anyone have a case they don't need.

Yes pictures to follow, I'm just too worked up right now to even look at it.
Thanks.

This is exactly why I tend not to buy anything large or fragile that is not local. I rather go on a long trip to a big meet to look for something to drag home in my own transoprtation than ask someone far away to attempt to pack it such that the neanderthals of the parcel systems can't damage it.

Bakelite can be epoxied together solidly when done right, so there is hope.
Even if it looks cracked after gluing you can always sand the edges and paint it(you can probably even find a shade to match the color of bakelite).

Sorry to hear of your loss and it sounds like you're having the same kind of week as I in regards to stuff getting damaged in shipment. My case was a rare '49 Emerson bakelite radio/45 rpm record player that was smashed in shipment due to poor packing.

When you tell the seller how to pack something and they still don't do it correctly, it just shows how lazy and uncaring they are. Even if you get your money back, it still doesn't alter the fact that a piece of history is destroyed and it's not like you can run to china-mart and buy another one.

Thats why i buy local or within driving distance. If it's not, i wasnt meant to have it. Having item's shipped just isnt safe anymore and people just dont care. My money is too tight to spend it on broken bakelite.

Sorry to hear about that.
The postal service is sure making nice old radio/TV's rarer and rarer!
I rarely have a set sent to me by mail these days. When I do, if it isn't completely ruined, there is a loose panel, shifted chassis, screws popped out, etc. In other words signs that the set took a lot of serious jolts.
Most of time, as said before, I buy a "local pick-up" set that catches my eye. I drive over, see the set, put down the cash, and then put it safely in my car. It makes the hobby much more enjoyable!

To me those old GE Locomotive TVs are not much to look at
when dirty, dusty, and cracked. BUT, when you put them all
together with a good cleaning, and good polishing, they are
a lot of eye candy and the display a very very nice video and
the audio is very good from such a small set.

All is not lost ... just more work.
If you cannot find a replacement cabinet, glue it back together,
sand the cracks and hey, paint it black. Mine is almost black and
cleaned and shiny it looks great. If you could find a Black spray paint
with a touch of Brown to off color the Black slightly, I think it would look great.

Carl

My '48 GE "Lococmotive" also had a crack at that common spot on the top near the rivet. The rest of the set was/is perfect. Dont just simply glue the crack/s. Grind a grove in the underside, fill with JB Weld, place mesh over that and put on more Weld. Clamp it and it will be a very strong fix. Mine is practically invisible now from the top.
I agree that these sets look stunning when they are buffed-out and polished. They also work fantastic when properly elec. restored. One of my fav. vintage TV's
Here's mine:
http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/...ps51977012.jpg

wow, that stinks. After giving some thought to the problem I came up with this.

Assuming that telling someone how to pack and hearing back from them that is how it will be done is not good enough these days.

So on to plan b, financial compensation. We used to call it pay for performance, so what you do is offer to pay a 'bonus" if the part is packed as described and survives the trip. Do a video of the opening and post as needed to document.

I know the above seem like something that should not be needed but seems like these days you need to adapt to the situation or just not buy bakelite (which is a perfectly good option).

I recently went thru this and the seller did an excellent job of true double boxing. fearing the worst I did an unboxing video just in case it was not done per our discussion.

He did not over charge for shipping as some seller do, and he emailed me a request for additional funds to cover his extra cost. I had no problem paying as it was the right thing to do.

Now in a less civil enviroment the above would not work but if you simply made arrangements BEFORE bidding that this is how it will be done (pay for performance) then maybe it can be done.

I know this is a long post and I am sure some will think, gee just do it right and this would not be needed, but clearly some things like the subject of this thread may benefit from the extra attention.

too bad really that people have to be paid extra to do what they have been already paid to do, but that is the world we live in.

That's true of a lot of "people" out there, but I do occasionally encounter a seller who will give me a price break on something I really want, or go the extra mile to help out. For example, I recently purchased something that would have had to have been shipped Priority from the U.S. due to its weight, but the seller lives near the border and offered to ship it from his alternate address in Canada, cutting my shipping cost by about half.

With all the bakelite smashing I have been hearing of lately, it's a wonder that the stuff survived long enough to be put up for sale online.

How did these sets get shipped all over the country when the were new? Weren't they just in cardboard boxes with packing? Were these sets treated like fine china and shipped carefully by conciensous handlers and drivers? I love Bakelite sets but just can't trust anyone to ship them correctly.

Just a guess but prob two things, correct packing, and s distribution system that was less consumer to consumer and more factory to warehouse to sales center, and I would bet a lot less machine moving. there was a video posted on VK I think while ago that was a training film for proper handling of freight by rail employees.

correct packing requires an understanding of basic physics. I am pretty confident I could pack pretty much anything and have it survive, but it would not be cheap, and I would want to be paid for both materials and at lest a somewhat reasonable amount for the time to do it right, otherwise I would just leave it up to the seller to come and get it. Needless to say I rarely ship anything. The last time I did it was when a CRT was shipped to me by an Ebay seller. it was just set loose inside a box with NO packing at all.

some how it managed to survive undamaged but the seller sent me the wrong CRT.... he had mixed up my address with someone else (Tx) and they got my CRT. I did not want it anymore (it was a time sensitive thing, I was fixing the set for someone else, and the time had already lapsed). So he asked me to box it back and stick on a shipping label to Tx (he provided).

Needless to say I did NOT want to just put it loose back in the box and wash my hands of it, so I ended up spending quite a bit of time fabricating a proper box to support the CRT, neck and keep it so no matter the orintation the thing would survive. So I am out no cash but prob at leas 1 hour of fabrication, take it to UPS, and have nothing to show for it. I HOPE it got there alright, I never heard back from either the seller or the buyer, no good deed...

Maybe it got trashed even with my efforts, but it would have been nice to know. I do know the seller stopped selling the CRTs, he had a bunch of BW tubes and was selling for 99$ IIRC (I think I told him how he was not shipping correctly).

think it was a 21LP4 or something like that (think that is what I wanted, I got something different that was too tall).

Sorry for your troubles, Sparky.

Awhile ago, I was 'cornering the market' in a certain pro SVHS machine I used in multiple locations of my business. I wanted them all alike, for performance, operation, and repair considerations. I ended up sending some of my empty factory shipping boxes to the sellers, for them to ship the deck back to me. Shipping big empty boxes is not cheap, but they all arrived fine, and it's the only way that UPS would stand behind their insurance.

If you've got the stomach to pursue more of the GE sets, and you have a set already to guide you, maybe you should build the ultimate "crate" that correctly supports the components and assemblies inside, as well as the outside case. Send it to the shipper, with instructions on how and why to ship back using your shipping crate. Now granted, this won't prevent and attack of the "UPSies", but at least you'll have a fighting chance. You can buy un-tamperable shock indicators from places like u-line that will inform you of your shipper's performance with respect to handling.

Good luck if you decide to attack the problem.

On the other hand, for the amount of work the above plan entails, you can take a nice cross-country drive for personal pickup.

Chip

I bet between all of us, we have the parts to repair your set. I have a parts locomotive right here.

Pictures!
 

Well thanks all for your support in my disaster. I will comment individually in just a bit but first without commercial interruption:
Exhibit: A the demon box.

Pictures!
 

Exhibit B: The face hole, Bottom cracks.

Pictures!
 

Exhibit C: The shifty CRT:

I thought for certain that the CRT was done for, but it lives.
It was pushed back about an 1 inch or less, shifted off its position (look at the bands).
The raster is normal for size, (that's how it looked before purchase) but me thinks it's no longer centered, as well as all wobbly in it's mount.
I haven't checked for an ion trap so that's enough testing.

No good deed indeed.
 

Yes I too suffer from the same problem. I won't ship without doing it right. Also the time, the effort and money to ship someone else's mistake back to them, well been there too. I bought a 9" Motorola (8BP4) set with just 2 sheets of paper and trash-in-a-box. well the cabinet (wood) de-veneered and was cracked...everywhere. Ratsnest in the TV and all kinds of bad things in it. I let the seller know and of course denied everything that it was "packed very well" yeah with every part of the cabinet touching a used broken up cardboard box. No refund and I wasn't going to ship it back at a loss. Good for parts only.

I also live in Orlando by the way.

Packing crates
 

Yep at work I repair many 10's of thousand dollar machines. once every 3-5 years one will defy repair and is sent back to the factory to have voodo performed by trained witch doctors. They receive it in good order using a box in a box. When they ship it back, it's in a single box. Well you guess it they send a call tag and I re-double box it with proper instructions to ship in the exact boxes it arrived in. No excuses. This is performed with the chief witch doctor aka service manager.

When the weight exceeds the logic of a cardboard box or has pointy sharp things clawing their way out of their prison box, this calls for a road case.

I don't have the money for such shipping privately, but a box in a box would have been just fine in this case had not the seller just given a damn.

Now for a UPS (United Parcel Smashers) story. This TV was sent UPS by the way.
Many years ago when I was a lad of 22 or so, I needed to pick up a package after hours at UPS. I did so after work. I was told that I could wait in the receiving area as the truck had not arrived with my package which was out for delivery for some reason. The idea that I could wait for the truck behind the scenes so to speak, was that I had on the same color Dickies as UPS. I guess with all brain dead representatives that inhabit the UPS and USPS, I was okay, as I had the same uniform. Well, while waiting for my truck, I had the privilege of watching the UPS Apes in action. A a truck backed up to the dock (all indoor btw) they unloaded the trucks in this manner. Take a package out and throw it on the conveyor wheels. Fragile packages as marked, were give special attention. Pick them up and smash them down on whatever surface is handy, floor conveyor. Some were given even better attention. Drop-kicked across the conveyor to the head of the line. Nice work boys. This is a true story witnessed by me So. Eastern Mass. depot.

A couple years ago I bought via ebay an Aussie bakelite radio. You guessed it, it arrived broken in 3 large pieces. I was able to glue it back together, but one piece escaped out a hole in the box. Ended up filling the 2 square inches with hot melt glue and dark shoe polish (it was mostly on the bottom). It presents fairly well, but a close inspection will show the damage.
http://www.wa2ise.com/radios/healingL502e.jpg

I got another of the same model radio in complete shape later. Better packing job.

I've got a big 21" '53 Zenith wooden tabletop B&W that a friend gave me, after someone gave it to him. The person who gave it to him bought it off ebay and it was supposed to be working. The seller stuck this big monster TV in a box with only packing peanuts for protection. Needless to say, the set didn't work upon arrival. The CRT neck got snapped off and there was a fairly sized crack close to the bottom of the cabinet. Given how poorly it was packed, I'm surprised it wasn't damaged worse. I managed to track down a CRT for it and discovered it had no HV. It's been sitting on the shelf for the past several years. Maybe one day, I'll get to it.

This reminds me of a story from my uncle and aunt who used to work for UPS many moons ago. When loading or unloading a truck when there was no conveyor near there would be a bucket burgade(I know I misspelled that) like line of people tossing packages from one person to the next...If the package looked heavy the next person down the line would intentionally not catch it! :thumbsdn:

i had a locomotive shipped to me some time ago , nothing special about the packing and it made it somehow , maybe they paid attention to all the fragile markings all over the box.

mike

i have packed and sent items since i had my shop for 18 yrs ,and not one time have ever had a damage idem, its mainly how it is packed,if you dont take the time to box it like its going to be used as a football it will not make it .it must be doubled boxed with a dead space between with shock absorber of some kind , even put thin peaces of paneling in the dead space to prevent stabbing i know it sounds like alot but it works and it takes time but its better than a broken idem.

Even if it's very well packed, the chassis and CRT might break loose and cause damage. I've had much better luck when the chassis and cabinet were shipped separately.

The raster doesn't look to be at all normal for size. There is definitely some vertical height and or linearity issues going on there, but that's no big deal. You can see the ion trap present in the second picture, so no need to worry about that. If it were gone, you wouldn't have a raster and the brightness of the raster that you do have lends me to believe that it is pretty close to proper adjustment.

Opinion...
 

Yeah I already knew it had issues, all of no consequence to me for repair. The picture looked the same on eBay before its shipment, except of course it's now shifted and needs an alignment as well.

So thanks all for your comments everyone, now I have received a reply to my complaint of damage. The seller doesn't want to even see pictures of the damage, he just wants to send me a UPS call tag!:thumbsdn: Well thanks for asking me for options! So my question is this... I want the set, but I need to be monetarily compensated for my loss, aka $.

So how do I get a person like this who wants to damage it for good by having me ship it back in the same "box" or at my expense because I don't want to see it damaged?
It will take time and money to fix his blunder. I don't want to ask anything out of the norm. Your opinions I await. Tom.


Looks like someone listens to the Moody Blues, what with your piles of trials and the like...

I figure that you should pack something in such a way that you feel comfortable letting it roll down a flight of stairs and not be damaged. Maybe two flights...

I'm sure that everyone who has been following this topic already knows this, but I'll be the one to actually say it: that seller is a moron.

Help on solving this problem
 

Yeah we now he is a moron and other things which I have already called him offline, but what to do now.

1 Do I destroy the TV by shipping back at no expense to me in his box?
2 Do I ship it back at my expense hoping not to destroy it further, maybe he'll pay the difference?
3 Or do I keep it, starting a claim to get some money back?

Does anyone have a fair estimate to give seeing the damage in the picture for either time or $?

I still await your comments and opinions.

I would choose option 3. Hopefully you have kept all communication.

I have been down this road more times than I want to tell you. My first experience was with an Admiral Bakelite table top set, 16R12. Below is a link to an ad on the Internet of the set. What I have is the console below in the ad.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/70039806@N00/6408153567/

That set was in a thin single layer cardboard box, with one thickness of Styrofoam peanuts. Sent UPS, need I describe how it arrived? I didn't think so. I needed chassis parts but had the cabinet been good when it arrived, it too could have been a candidate for restoration too. It became a squirting contest (description of the contest has been edited for decorum :D ) that I gave up on since the sale price was so cheap.

Recently, I got an Admiral 19A1. This one only had one crack and it was on the bottom, rear. I informed the seller but didn't pursue any compensation. JB Weld will fix it.

So, I feel your pain. The damage that you have encountered could be repaired if that set was a one-of-a-kind. But it will take days of jigsaw puzzle type work.

I have shipped many items to Japan, Korea, Russia, Finland, Spain etc. and have no damage don to the item. It only takes common sense don't ya think?

Hope you can work it out...

I have had only one item damaged in transit, a 1982 Ford AM-FM 8-track stereo that took a serious whang to the volume control/tape program change shaft. I straightened it as best as I could, but it's still not quite right. If it had been the tuning control shaft, I could have just cut it off, pulled it out from behind and replaced it with the shaft from my 1975 parts stereo. Unfortunately the shaft that got bent appears to be permanently attached to what I remember is a five-ganged control. If the control from my '75 can be swapped in at all, I'm going to need to change the PCB it's attached to. I won't part out my other '82, it's too nice even though the factory power and speaker connectors are cut off.

three of the four cracks are on the bottom so it wont show when on display , the one in the lower corner of the screen is the one that will show , so if you glue it and do a good job it wont be perfect but presentable

mike

Help on refund
 

Option 3 after notifying the seller, he agreed to a refund of my asking. I haven't asked yet, not knowing what a fair refund should be. Now I still await your opinions for estimates of what a fair price would be. I bought it for over $100, so would half of the purchase be proper? Please respond as I haven't had anything this expensive that has been broken before and don't know what is fair to ask.

Half of your total price (with shipping) may be reasonable, yes. That is simple and easy.

You can look at it a bunch of ways: You still have a chassis with unbroken CRT, and a cabinet that seems repairable. On the other hand, the cost to do repairs to the cabinet (if feasible) are not cheap either. How much thinking do you want to put into it?

Request denied! Take this man to the cooler!:thumbsdn:

Seller says I am unreasonable and it's not my call, said he sent a UPS call tag (never told me) and that I have to give him the set back and that I must accept a full refund. Hello eBay claim and dispute resolution centre.
As to how much I am thinking of putting in to it, well I work for me, and the labour rates are reasonable. Enough to make it a showpiece. I'm the guy what stoofs old paper caps and fashions new components to look old. So yes, as needed. And I am also a demented ham what builds his own equipment from scratch.

Yes you are correct I speak with foreign (UK) English and spelling.

UPS that says it all for me , i know fedex or u.s. mail aren't much better but that conveyour belt system breaks things way too often at the united package smashers, so i've had better survival rate with other shippers.

mike

I have never had a disaster with FedEx, ever. Any other service, I don't have enough fingers and toes to count how may damaged packages.

As far as the refund on the TV it's in the Ebay-PayPal gods' hands for now. The seller claims that he told me to repackage the TV and he would send a call tag. I never received such info..ever. The fact that he wants to ship it back in the same useless box speaks volumes. If it doesn't go my way I know I'll be finishing the TV off for good shipping it back. He seemed apologetic when I showed him the pictures and agreed to a partial refund, the just got all weird when I told him the conditions, half.
When the dust settles I may indeed post the text transactions and the auction info. I would take opinions on whether to do that or not.:tears:

Most of the time I have had problems when something which was not properly packaged was shipped to me. What really irritates me is that you have to use your money to send it back and only then, can you hope to get a refund. I have bought and sold on eBay literally thousands of times. Only a few times, have items been destroyed. But in every case (except one) the damage was done because of insufficient packaging. The item must NOT be able to move around inside of the box. And if the box is not sturdy enough, it must be enclosed in another sturdy box with packing insulating the inside box.

I know, I know that I am preaching to the choir. Just offering empathy for your situation.

FedEx has by far done the least amount of damage to my stuff however...

What happened here is the major reason I don't sell any of my stuff on Ebay.
I don't have a stock of boxes and protection material to protect large
items like radios and small TVs. And, prospective buyers don't want
to pay to have somebody like a UPS store double box it.

I think I'll just want for the next Charlotte CC-AWA auction and sell stuff there.
Won't command Ebay prices but there no boxing up hassels is required, sales
are final, and buyer gets to look at item without pictures and detailed descriptions.

Carl