Creating a Frankenrola Set
 

I picked up this Motorola TS-60 chassis a while ago with the intent of parting it out. It was in such good condition that I never did though. The previous owner is a radio restorer and couldn't get it to work. Looks like he did excellent work to me. It probably came from a 16T1 like this.
I packed it away and almost forgot about it.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4011/...b4e591f8_b.jpg


Well a few weeks ago I came across an empty Motorola bakelite cabinet on ebay. It's for a model 17T5E like this.
http://www.tvhistory.tv/1952-Motorola-17T5E.JPG

I had the seller take some measurements and it seemed that my 16" chassis would fit nicely so I took a chance on it.

Now I had to worry about shipping damage. It just arrived today.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4139/...f1bda4cc_z.jpg

Looks good so far.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4136/...38e49c7a_z.jpg

Hurray! It survived :banana:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4098/...b8ca0481_z.jpg

Better yet - it's a good fit :D
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4074/...d2db71cd_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4095/...35f1d02e_b.jpg

The seller included these knobs. I believe the large outer knobs are correct. I'm not sure about that inner one though :scratch2:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4100/...733a1636_z.jpg

So what do you guys think about me creating a Frankenstein Motorola set ?

Looks like a great fit to the 16KP4 (or similar) crt... wonder if Motorola got a bit carried away using the "17" in the model number for the newer cabinet? Bet a 17BP4 (or similar) would not match the mask as well.
I would do it without hesitation!!!:thmbsp:
jr

Update:just dug out a Sams #167 folder 13 (5-52) for the model 17T5E,F (as well as the 17K10E, 17T6G) chassis TS-314A,B,TS-315 A,B... and the jug is shown as a 17HP4,17TP4... wonder why your 16" fits so well? :scratch2:

Go for it! It looks good and it's better than letting them both just sit unused.

Looks like you were saved a lot of work recapping that chassis. Assuming you can find the problem without too much work.

Was the cabinet double boxed or was it shipped as seen in the first open box photo? If it was just a single box you were really lucky that it arrived intact!

John

It was sort of double boxed. The two boxes were a very tight fit - no packing in between :no:
Once I clear the Motorola 19K1 off my workbench, I'll try powering this chassis up.

Dunno. There is a slight gap on each side as the mask has a slight curve to it while the 16KP4 is very flat. I'm gonna try using the mask that came with the 16" chassis and see if it fits any better. I'd like the chassis to slide forward another 1/2" or so if possible.

The 16" bezel was a flop so I'll stick with 17" one. I spent a little time tonight on the cabinet. It's dirty, faded and scratched up so I'm going to try wet sanding.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4098/...6c908347_z.jpg

First up a little #600 on the worst scratches. I got them mostly out but was nervous about breaking through to the pulpy filler material.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4102/...b3429365_z.jpg

Next, 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500 and 3000 grit sandpaper.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4138/...449d045d_z.jpg

Here it is post sanding.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4137/...5bdcda85_z.jpg

Here it is after buffing with Novus #2.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4094/...139f832e_z.jpg

Finally, I buffed it with Simichrome metal polish. It came out quite well. That leaves the sides to do.. I'll save that for another day.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4116/...a20f8ff7_b.jpg

That bakelite cabinet set probably came with a 17TP4 metal CRT. The curvature of the face of a metal tube is closer to a 16t than 17 in. glass tube. P.S. Someone spent a fortune on those can lytics. Dave.

Looks like a reasonable plan. Two orphans meet by chance and it's a marriage made in heaven! You're not doing anything destructive, so if by some miracle you later find a correct chassis for one and a correct cabinet for the other, you can do a swap and make the museum curators happy.

Phil

Great job bringing that bakelite back.

Good thought! The PF that I have clearly shows a glass tube in the set, but also shows a two gaps between the corners and the center of the left side and bottom side. The bottom of the bezel shown in the Photofact pix in the first post on this thread appears to have been re-drawn, and does not show the two gaps that are visible in the orig pix. (see Pix 1, below)

I have seen earlier models of this set with 16" CRTs... so perhaps designers only slightly modified the older bezel design, so that it could be used (with slight mis-match) with either the glass and metal 17" tubes. :scratch2:

Later, Motorola dropped the strict 4:3 look and redesigned the cabinet and bezel for the 17" "rounded" CRTs ... Pix 2, Model 17T11.

jr

He sure did. I actually asked him about that once I noticed them. He had them custom made by a company that's no longer around :(

I think this is the first time I've seen wire nuts used in a TV!
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4142/...0a7d30b7_z.jpg

I did find a few bumblebee caps lurking and some questionable looking repairs. I'll know more once I get it up on the workbench. I have to finish the 19K1 first though.

Here's a closeup of the screen surround and plastic logo. What do you suppose this coating was originally ? It looks to me like corroded copper or brass plating. The cabinet has cleaned up quite nicely otherwise.

I figure I have three choices.

1. Leave it alone.
   
2. Remove it and buff the underlying bakelite.
   
3. Try to re-create the original finish.

Any ideas ?

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4138/...31d64fbf_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4078/...68b0ace4_b.jpg

That gold coating around the CRT is what to me looked like just a sort of semi-flat, slightly textured paint. I had one of those for years until some guy from Massachusetts came here to VA (around 800 miles one way) and bought mine. And for the record, the CRT was a glass 17 (?) incher with the bakelite case. I have another Motorola with that chassis in a wooden case. They must have been built with the best of parts because I have had three with the similar chassis and all three were basically plug and play for at least a while before caps started causing troubles.

I like like trying to recreate the way things originally look, and in this case I think I'd clean up those surfaces enough to paint them with some shade of gold, bronze, or copper paint. Once you clean the old finish away, you might like the bakelite ( especially considering the way turns out whenever you give it that special touch! ) so leaving it that way is always a simple option in case the paint looks like hell. Of course, that's why I'd try the paint on a smaller section first before I committed to masking off the whole deal. With a project like this, you're certainly entitled to take as much creative license as you want. :yes:

I'm going to suggest some Dupli-Color Gold paint.

The same color that was found to be an excellent match for the Gold tables on the little RCA 45 players.
I have a can at work I can get the number from.

None of the common bright gold paints on the market really seem to match the old stuff of the 40's for one it seems to be a lot thinner, it also seems less "Green" but maybe the old paint tarnishes somewhat over the years?

OK, I'll give painting a shot. Masking those curves is going to be a challenge I think.

Amazingly, three of the four chassis mounting screws line up perfectly. The fourth doesn't because of the cutout for the tuner.

Here's a closer look at those cans. Very nice :)
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4094/...1d071d90_z.jpg

Other repairs aren't quite so nice. I better double check the correct values on those caps that are doubled up.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4143/...5655bee3_b.jpg

I wonder where that ground lead used to go :scratch2:
Plenty of multi-colored heatshrink tubing all around.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4097/...f7001343_b.jpg

Overall it looks pretty good. I'll need to dig up a field coil speaker to try it out. Or maybe a PM one and use a power resistor in place of the FC.

Those can condensers are very expensive. I would have thought he would have done a better job on the rest of the chassis, though. My guess-guy restored radios, and this was his first tv. I know the first tv I worked on was slopped together pretty bad, too.

I always wondered why Motorola painted the one side where the power supply components were. Possibly to run cooler? They only did it on the earlier models. Dave.

Good question. Cooling, insulation, "keep away" warning ?

I picked up a set of NOS knobs from peverett. Even they suffer from the white crud syndrome.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4099/...d326a2e8_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4103/...d42f23b46f.jpg

That cleaned off easily with a little 409. I then spent a lot of time polishing up the outer knobs.
They looked so bad at first I was convinced they were just plated steel.
Finally after a lot of buffing with Simichrome, the brass started to shine :)
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4149/...ddff52d0_b.jpg

nice cans, do the ones with out the cardboard tubes have voltage on them? I assume with the wafer it had a float ground or they were hot compare to the chassis.

They are at a floating ground potential. This TS-60 chassis is a hybrid design. The B+ supply uses an AC line voltage doubler (the cardboard tube cap and seleniums).

However, there is a 6.3 VAC transformer for the filament supply. So no worries about current surge or uneven heating of cold filaments :)

Yes, he is lucky to have landed that set with golden caps in it. I notice that you addressed a floating ground signified by the "wafer" or insulating base at the bottom of the cans. I bet a LOT of troubles have crossed these forums posted by people who assume that all electrolytic negative sides (outer metal can) go to the chassis for grounding. I almost made this mistake once before a lot of formal training. Honestly, I have not studied the circuitry enough to know why some manufactures did this or what would be the result of a mis-connection. Do you know much about this Dave?

Here's a nice intact version of this set on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Motorola...-/220726860074

Now I know what it should look like including the back :yes: I wouldn't take a chance shipping it, but maybe someone can do a local pickup ?

With my Motorola 12K2 project and it's oh so similar TS-53 chassis fresh on my mind, I decided to try firing it up.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3400/...e80c3e33_z.jpg

I removed the 16KP4 and put it out of harms way.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5189/...1308ac4b_z.jpg

I first tried powering it up with no speaker field coil so no B+ for the set. The tube filaments lit up just fine :)

I'm missing the original FC speaker for this set so I'm going to use a power resistor. I measured the FC resistance in my 12K2 speaker and got 90 ohms.
I went with a 120 ohm power resistor for a little safety margin. I also used an 8 ohm PM speaker.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5113/...493d50b1_z.jpg

That got me a nice raster, but so sound or video. All the tubes were pulled from a working set set I'm pretty sure they're OK.
I noticed that the previous owner hadn't replaced a single resistor and a few old caps remain so I'll start checking & replacing those.

Here it is with an 8XP4. At least the HV is nice and strong.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3354/...f1fc64fc_z.jpg

I fed a video signal directly into the grid of the final video amp stage. No image if I feed a signal into the IF stages. I think the fault lies somewhere around the detector.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3463/...a1218473_z.jpg

Detector early SS detector diodes(if that is what your set uses) can and do go bad occaisionally. I'd try a replacement.

Tom C.

It uses one half of a 6AL5 with the other half unused. Unfortunately, I was doing a little tube swapping and lost the test pattern altogether. I hope it's just a bad connection somewhere.

It took me a couple days to figure out that this choke was open :rolleyes:
It connects the IF strip to ground. Without it in the circuit, the cathode voltages were all way off.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5148/...a2f171770e.jpg

I also noticed that the 6AG5 tube wasn't lit up anymore and discovered another bad choke in the filament supply.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2716/...e8a31cf75a.jpg

I bypassed all of them with some clip leads.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2260/...d0566a80_z.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3495/...10e170dd_z.jpg

Finally, some video :D The sound is good too.
I'm not sure if I have any suitable chokes on hand. I wonder how critical the value is :scratch2:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3193/...7e091d00_z.jpg

The original reason I picked up this chassis was to use this 16KP4 in my Sentinel. So I'd like to adapt the chassis to hold a 17BP4 like this.
I think it will fit a little better in the screen bezel and I have a couple spares.
Perhaps I can bend the old bracket or make a new one from scratch.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5314/...51de94b463.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2363/...4f974ed0b5.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2803/...d57ecb1460.jpg http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5039/...ca87d567ab.jpg

Not at all critical. Similar to a decoupling bypass cap. Anything vaguely resembling the value will work.