Anyone here collect vintage movie projectors/films?
 

I was just wondering if anyone else here collects them. I have two 16mm sound projectors (no movies yet,though) and two 8mm silent projectors with a couple dozen 1940's/50's vintage home movies. I also have a large box of Super 8 reels, though I've yet to find a Super 8 projector. Anyone else still watch film?

I've got a closet full of stuff. Started with an old Keystone 8mm and now have an assortment of things. Lots of home movies that I've picked up at the flea market, and assorted oddities. It's not one of my main hobbies, but I do enjoy them. Some of my favorite finds: bw 16mm silent home movies from the 30s, taken in the Wilmington, DE area. One was taken as the drove down the highway; another is taken from the top of a hill, showing the highway, the train, and ships on the Delaware River-all lined up one behind the other. I have a shoebox full of 8mm from the 60s, chronicling an African safari that someone from around here took. Also, a 16mm sound reel introducing some of the new shows on CBS for, IIRC, 1971.

I have a Kodak 16mm sound projector (made sometime between 1946 and 60 - I know that's broad, I know...) that needs a good cleaning but works. I bought a while back it to watch the one reel I have, "A Storm Named Betsy" or something like that. Someone posted the film on Youtube since.

I love finding old home movies and have collected a large plastic container full of them.

I have a Keystone 8mm projector from the 30's that takes three hands to run and a 50'-60's 8mm Kodak that is pretty easy to operate, also a 16mm B&H Filmosound from the 60's, just like the one we had in grade school in the 60's.

I've been working on transferring some of them to video using a Flip camera and have posted quite a few to YouTube, my favorites so far are a series covering several years of one particular family in the late 40's.
I have no idea who they are but they lived in So Cal.

I have a pretty good collection of projectors,
3 Kodak Pageants, one with magnetic/optical sound
a B&H 185, 285, and 385
B&H 500 series
B&H 1500 series with cracked worm gear
Viewlex super 1600
Another type I can't remember the exact name of (GPL?)
at my parents house I have a Victor Animatophone.

I really enjoy watching 16mm films and was able to get a large collection of them when the local library sold theirs.

I collect both 16mm and 35mm films. I used to have literally TONS of 16mm film, until I discovered that tri-acetate film eventually begins to rot and emits an unmistakable vinegar smell. I sold 90% of my 16mm collection, and have started over with them. I have around 150 35mm films, and recently got a better 35mm projector with a xenon lamphouse and stereo sound...

In 16mm, I have several Victor Animatograph machines, my favorites, lots of Eiki, Bell & Howell, Kodak, and an old Natco left-handed threading projector. I've got a couple of xenon Eiki 16mm machines, too, that make an incredible picture on a large screen. I still have the first machine I ever owned, an Ampro, bought in 1970 when I got started.

In 35mm, I have a Holmes 8 portable 35mm built in the 1940's, and the newly aquired Century SA, built in the 1960's. It will be awhile before the Century is ready to roll.

I have LOTS of gear. That will have to be a post for another day. I just don't have the time to get into all of it now, but I would like to say that if any of you own films, and if any of them have that vinegar smell-get rid of them or at the very least don't let them share the same room with the rest of your collection! Ultimately, all acetate films will break down, but you can certainly prolong the life of your collection for many years to come. To keep this short, anyone with any film questions is always welcome to pm me.

I'm more than happy to talk film with anyone here, too.

I agree with Leadlike. Get that vinegar film away from your other films.

Most of my 35mm is polyestar stock Almost unbreakable... Can cause alot of damage to the projector itself if the film hangs up somehow. No vinegar, though.

I wanted to bring this up too- I have had terrible experiences on buying films from ebay and fleamarkets. It almost always is badly faded, or has vinegar syndrome, or both. I now only buy my films from dealers, which surprisingly can be cheaper, but they are in business to sell a product that they stand by. The company I use most is Derann films, out of England. Somehow, their prices seem to always fall below what I see on ebay. They send out a list of used films via email once a month. Their website only lists the brand new (yes, they are printing new super 8 films in 2010) stuff, which costs several hundred British pounds for a full feature, but their used stuff is usually pretty cheap. I think I paid about $20 US for the Empire Strikes Back on super 8 for both parts 1&2. I have no affiliation with the company, other than as a satisfied customer.

http://www.derann.co.uk/

Another note on vinegar sydrome-I visited the home of a film collector, and when I entered the porch, I saw several film cans sitting on a bench by the door. I asked about that, and he said that was all the material he had that was going to vinegar syndrome-he wouldn't even let the stuff in the same house as his collection!

I am selling off alot of my older stuff. Alot is faded, and I always disclose that to the buyer. I've never had a return.

(I am not trying to sell anything here. I do this elsewhere on the net.)

Bruce

I think a GPL is a Graflex, a division of General Precision Laboratories. I have several of these, too. Lets not even talk about the worm gear issues in the 500/1500/2500 Bell & Howells. Makes me too sick!

I have 2 500 series Bell & Howell 16mm Projectors as well as Super 8 and regular 8mm projectors and film. I buy a lot of old school films from Ebay from makers such as Coronet Films, Encyclopedia Brittanica etc. My main focus tho is old driver's ed films, especially the notorious ones from Highway Safety Films inc. of Mansfield, Ohio that showed on scene footage of real accidents. I call them the vegamatic drivers ed films as u get to see the blood and gore from real accidents in an attempt to shock you into being a better driver. I was shown one when I was in high school driver's ed class and never forgot it. I also have a couple feature films, Pal Joey with Frank Sinatra, and Gigot with Jackie Gleason (truly his best film and the one he wanted to be remembered for) as well as a few tv shows. Mary Tyler Moore, The F.B.I., and Adam 12.

I haven't bought much recently but I've had good luck on ebay, no vinegar prints, Yes a lot of faded Eastman color stock prints but I know that most 16mm films printed for school use were printed on that Eastman crap Kodak was putting out for over 30 years.

I have 3 16mm projectors at the moment:

A Bell & Howell 8D 655, probably from the late 60s: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSreml2f7wo

I have modified this projector to use a 24 volt 250 watt halogen bulb of a very common type because the original tungsten lamps are no longer manufactured and just about impossible to obtain. The halogen lasts much longer, they are cheaper and brighter and you don't even need half the wattage of the tungsten bulb to get the same light output.

A Kodak "Kodascope" from 1958: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ogt8Li9T18

The amplifier was dead when i got it, so i replaced the capacitors and diodes. It is now in excellent working condition. I even have the users manual and the optional microphone for it. The bulb is still working and i have one more new-in-box, but when thah is used up i will probably convert it to halogen. There is enough room for the transformer inside the case, so there will not be any visible changes.

Bell & Howell 1655: http://www.youtube.com/unusualstuff#p/u/12/zgyQR_Rbqgo

This projector is quite modern in the design and runs much more quiet than the older ones. It is driven by DC motors and has a solid state amplifier. It has a 24 volt 250 watt quartz bulb.


3 other 16mm projectors i've had in the past:

A Bauer, probably model P6: The motor had lost its power and wasn't powerful enough to drive the projector anymore. Probably a shorted or broken winding, so it ended up in the trash.

A Bell & Howell, unknown model: It had a motor with brushes and would run on both AC and DC. The amplifier had a rectifier right after the power input and two UL84 tubes in push-pull acting as a oscillator to convert the DC to AC. The AC is then transformed up to about 250 volt, rectified again and used to drive another pair of UL84s to amplify the sound. In other words, this amplifier would also work on both AC and DC. It was supposed to run on 115 volts, but someone had connected it directly to the 230 volt line and destroyed the motor. I still have the amplifier in working condition, the rest was trashed.

I don't even remember what brand the last one was, but it was something rebadged cheap stuff. All the belts were completely gone, but except from that it seemed to be OK. I ended up giving it away to another collector.

8mm projectors:

The Yelco MP-400: This one can be used with standard 8 and Super 8. It has continously variable speed, DC motor and halogen bulb. In other words, quite modern. It is barely used, still has the "new" smell in it.

Plank "Noris 8": Good quality standard 8 projector with "Syncromat"; it looks like you can run a standard 1/4" audio tape through a mechanism on the back of the projector and this will in some way synchronize the speed of the projector to the recording on the tape. The speed of the projector is affected by the tension on the tape. I don't know exactly how this system is supposed to be used.

I recently bought a small lot of 8mm film cans and one of them had footage from the 1965 World Series with the Dodgers & The Twins:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEYckBIKSbo

Cool to see some gear from Norway! The 8mm gear out of Europe was some of the most beautiful camera equipment ever made.

To check the functionality of your Noris sound unit, just move the tensioning arm back and forth while the projector is under power. The projector speed should change.

You would loop the reel to reel tape as you normally would for playback, but somewhere along the thread pattern, you would need to pull a length of tape out and spool it through the speed control path on the projector. The result was a very complicated mess that gave the tape recorder priority on speed control (as the tape slowed, so would the projector, etc). Bolex had a similar add-on unit for their projectors, which was an even more complicated hook-up.

Could you play a sync sound dialogue movie on this system? No-just a music program and narration that you dubbed together later on your reel to reel. You could still use this today if you own a reel to reel.

I've seen quite a few of these units, and I have only come across one that had obviously been used. I think most folks bought them expecting to be able to record live sound and sync it up later, only to find out that this wasn't a Steenbeck, and subsequently shelved them.

About the only way to get sound on film at the time this was manufactured was to use this, or own a 16mm Cinvevoice setup. With the rise of sound-striped film on 16mm and super 8, these systems were gladly tossed aside.

Here's my Century SA newly installed on the new base. Nothing is connected or ready to run, yet.

seeing a sudden interest in old film around here.
someone brought in a 16mm hell&bowel and a argus slide recently.customer overjoyed that they found someone who would even look at them.
btw what can one do to delay vineagar death?
she said some of her films smell of it.

There is no way to stop vinegar syndrome once it begins. You can only separate the offending reels from the healthy ones, as it will spread.

It is a shame, as it seems nearly every reel I come across now has it. This is another major reason to avoid buying from online auctions and only through trusted film dealers.

BTW, is the 16mm B&H being brought in for repair? If so, what issues is it having?

Is it harmful to the projector to run a film through that's beginning to smell?

I have always been interested and have a nice size collection of 8mm films and a 16mm film that I will be buyng a projector for. I would love to someday have an actual theatre to use 35mm equipment. It's great that one can actually obtain such things.

It would not be harmful to the projector but maybe some might think the mold/agents that causes it could spread to the next films used in the machine. If you wanted to be as safe as possible u could clean areas the film contacts with alcohol. I expect that being exposed to the heat of the projector and then a cool dry place afterwards could slow the deterioration which should reduce smell also.

I manage a theatre. I was collecting film long before I went to work here.

I've run some of my stuff at my theatre. They look great!

I think the best way to preserve your films is to run them. They were not ment to be left in a can all the time. I have a set of rewinds, and wind all the prints I have at least once a year.

We ran a vinegar print of mine a few weeks ago on the xenon machine I have at work. The booth reeked of VS after the film ended, but when I got the print back home, I dont notice any smell. It is still kept away from the other prints in the collection, though.

All of the film in the booth at work is polyestar. No VS to worry about there.

For the prints that I have with VS, I just run them last after all of my healthy films have been shown. I'm sure what little (if any) nasty stuff that gets transferred to the projector's rollers and gate evaporate away pretty quickly.

Vinegar syndrome
 

The vinegar smell comes from acedic acid which is a byproduct of the acetate film stock decomposing. Vinegar syndrome does not occur with newer mylar/estar based film stock. There is a company online that sells what are called molecular sieves which can be placed inside film cans of healthy prints to help keep them that way as well as vinegar prints to help prolong their life. They absorb the acedic acid. I have no connection to this company nor have I tried this item as all of my prints are good. Here is a link to the company, the item is the last one at the bottom of the page. http://moviecraft.tripod.com/supplies.html

I've got 4 prints that have shown VS problems for at least 15 years. I still run them regularly and they still run fine with good focus. I'm not selling them, as they are going to rot. I want these to rot with me. The booth reeks when I play them.

I've sold off most of my acetate prints.

Bruce

I have one 16mm film about Hurricane Betsy and an old Kodak 16mm sound projector. I'd sell or give it away, but one day I want to show my kids how we managed before VCRs.

I have a film that was made for the Ampro Premier 30 16mm sound projector. It includes all instructions from unpacking, thru setup, and showings.

The beginning of the print is thoroughly eaten, so I figured the owner had no idea how to thread his ampro, either.

A Premier 30 was the first projector I ever owned. Got it in 1971 for $50. It's still running, but I dont use it anymore. Just set it up and run it now and then, and maybe a few drops of oil in the oilers.

I have a couple 16mm projectors some work and some needs parts.. I can't find a forum that has any topics for projectors, Ive got some projects to fix them but no resources.. I have two Bell and Howells, one needing a plastic gear, and model 202 that has problems reading the sound

What year was your theatre built?
I love old theaters.

Hi George.

It's not an old theatre. It's a multiplex built in 1983-84. All the 35mm stuff was Christie. It has all run with very few issues every day since the place opened.

We have moved up (their words, not mine) to Sony digital projectors in most of the theatres. You can almost look at them and they will shut down.

At one time, I had 3500 films in 16mm. I cleaned out several TV stations back in the 1980's when they were unloading their libraries and switching to tape. When vinegar syndrome reared its ugly head, I lost several complete TV sitcom series to the rot, and so I sold most of the collection between 1999 and 2003, and as of now, I own about 50 features, 150 TV shows, and about 400 cartoons. Much of the film I have now is polyestar stock. Easy to scratch, but no VS worries.

No Jetsons episodes anymore.

I'm in the process of selling a pair of extra 16mm projectors so I dug them out and pulled out some films for testing. I was dissapointed to find that one of them was getting the VS. I really need to use them more; there are a few early home movies that I really should duplicate-highway scenes from the late 30s or so, etc.

That's the bad thing about film..it degrades.
Sometimes film is the only way to see vintage programs intact and complete though,for instance all of the original Capitol production music heard in "my three sons" and the original Gumby shows has been replaced with crappy synthesizer music because both studios were too cheap to pay royalties to use the original music on the DVD releases.

Even newer shows like "quantum leap" have fallen victim to this practice and had their original scores replaced with elevator music rather than pay royalties for music such a "Georgia on my mind" by Ray Charles,Ooby Dooby by Roy Oribison,etc.

I believe "the wonder years" would likely suffer the same fate on DVD as it used original music from the '60's.

I have tape copies of the Capitol "needle-drop" recordings from one of the stations I cleaned out. I won't use them for anything, as I like to just listen to them.

I havent seen any of the My Three Sons shows on DVD, but if the original music was not there, I'd be nothing but pissed. I used to have a bunch of the B/W shows, and a handful of color shows that were original soundtracks.

Much of the same music was used by Hanna-Barbera on Yogi Bear, and Huckleberry Hound, among others. "The Donna Reed Show" theme was a needle drop, and could be heard in the background on early Yogi cartoons.

[QUOTE=GeorgeJetson;3003093]That's the bad thing about film..it degrades.


Funny you mention this. I have prints that have been run at least once a year since they were new... Some of these films are nearly 60 years old, with no sign of vinegar syndrome, or brittleness.

Many of the prints I lost were old library prints that were run (usually) 10 times or so, then discarded.

I think that vinegar often happens to films that have been sitting in cans for years and years. Acetate film needs to breathe! Most of the film I have today is at least rewound once a year.

Wow!,are they reel to reel?
I have some of the Hi-Q lp's,but they don't come up for sale often.
I love that music and have some on old tapes,but the sound quality isn't that good.

Yep,the Donna Reed theme was indeed a Capitol library track "happy day" and was later so identified with the Donna Reed show they removed it from their library!

All of the production music library's had great stuff,I know that Davey and Goliath even used some Roger Roger cues which really surprised me as most of the other stuff was of the seeley-loose variety.

In my opinion some of those library music cues are the best music made..like Benny Carters "be cool",Laurie Johnson did a lot of library music work too before he worked on "The Avengers".

What's funny is that some of the production music library's even licensed their music for background purposes,there are some old Kresges (later renamed Kmart) records that used library tunes such as "Bright Spark" and "fashioned for tomorrow"

There a still many catchy tunes stuck in my mind that I have never found yet.

I did have some 16mm german yogi bear reels that were "lost" when i moved, along with a lot of other stuff like cartoon film cels. Im 99% sure they were taken by the movers.

Boxes just dont open themselves up. But oh well, its not like I had a projector for it anyhow. I just have an affinitty for cartoon items. Though id have loved to see Yogi speak in german.

I just bought a brand new 16mm projector built in 1984 from Ebay. It's a Telex Government surplus mil-spec projector. According to the auction the U. S. Govt. bought them in 1984 and they have sat in a warehouse since then. Here's a link to the auction page. http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-TELEX-16mm-S...item3a646fca4b It's a great projector and even runs my tired old school films that have been through the wars and have sprocket damage and splices. I did have a problem with the first projector they sent me. Something was causing the supply reel to advance faster than the projector could project it. Called the seller, they are a big professional camera/projector dealer in miami, and they were very apologetic. They emailed me a prepaid UPS label to send it back to them for repair. They had it about a week and then contacted me and said they would replace it with another one. This one has been running great. They even made a custom adapter so my anamorphic lens could be used with this projector. If anybody has a tired old projector I highly recommend this seller and this proj. I just couldn't see spending $300-400 on my nearly 50 year old B&H 500 series to have it overhauled and worm gear replaced when this one was 250.

That Telex looks almost like a Graflex from around 1968. I've got several.

Yup, that projector was sold under several brand names-including Singer/Graflex. Pretty solid projector. It is so sad that all those old B&Hs have bad worm gears now. I had about a half dozen of those at one point, and all of them self destructed.