Just one month left of analog NTSC (again)
 

I don't think they're going to extend it yet again.

Doubt that they will. Would be nice to have one more summer of OTA analog for the portables though...

Deja Vu all over again...But yeah, this time I think its for real...Still think this is one of the most boneheaded things The Gummint has ever done, NOT trying to get political or anything like that.

I'm not trying to get political either; but, I think it would be nice if they would allow one station per market to remain analog, at least for the next few years. There are too many battery operated TV's around that we all depend on during emergencies. Now, I'm going to have to rig a converter and a DC power source to work with my battery operated TV for use during emergencies. I do own a weather radio and many regular transistor portable radios; but, the local TV station (still analog) does a far better job when it comes to weather coverage.

Another related note: Many of us now rely on Voice-Over-Internet-Protocol (VOIP) phone services. This means that the phone will not work in a power failure without a backup battery which most people neglect to install.

I was watching a 1940's movie before and there was a blackout, and the phone worked fine.

In some ways, things move in reverse as time marches on.

I have a weather radio and have found it to be essentially worthless. The reason being is that you cannot set the alarm different for warnings vs watches. Because of this, if you turn it on while a watch only is issued, you will be alarmed as long as the watch exists(storms or no storms). Try to sleep with that going on. The alarm is the same for warnings or watches-another stupid design defect. I wrote the manufacturere and they claim that the signal transmitted is the same for watches/vs warnings and they cannot differentiate.

I keep hopeing that with all the severe storms recently, someone with some influnce will notice how much better analog TV performs during storms and do the common sense thing-keep at least one analog TV station running in areas prone to severe weather.

Not only VoIP phone service is affected during power outages. If you have digital phone service, it too will be useless if the power goes out. This includes 911 emergency calls. I cannot speak for other digital phone carriers, but AT&T's digital telephone service does not have backup batteries or other means of keeping the network going in case of an outage. IMHO, they should have designed a backup power system into the digital network right from the start. Many computer users (and most businesses depending on 24/7 reliability of their online systems) now have uninterruptible power supplies (UPSs) for their computers/networks; why not for digital telephone service as well? Hmmm. :scratch2:

BTW: Yes, the DTV transition date now seems to be set in stone, and will not be pushed back again. As I read in today's issue of Broadcasting and Cable magazine's email newsletter, the NAB's campaign to educate viewers about the DTV switch seems to be working well; at the latest count, only a bit over one percent of the American public is not prepared for the transition. In the same issue of B&C was a statement that the FCC will launch a program shortly in which it will send representatives to homes not yet prepared for DTV, installing converter boxes and/or educating viewers as to what they must do to continue watching local TV after the analog stations leave the air forever. This may be the only way to convince those few diehard TV viewers who do not believe analog TV will end for good on June 12 that such will happen, like it or not.

No matter what, there will always be a number of morons out there. Despite all the warnings on TV, there's still gonna be a number of people wondering why their TV wont work.
And there is a whole lot more idiots who think that the DTV conversion effects everyone; those with cable, satelite, etc. and not just those who just got rabbit ears.
But then again that impression was given earlier on, in an attempt to make people think they have to buy a new digital flatscreen POS plasma or some dumb thing like that.

Kinda like in school, you always get the one or two morons; "Teacher, I lost my textbook!" and especially in band; "I lost my music/insturment/uniform/etc!!"

But if you ask me, this digital conversion is just a great big waste of time, money, and energy.
Soon this will happen to AM and FM radio.
Soon, not only that we won't get free TV anymore, but no more free radio either.

And it is a fact that the masses are complete morons.
And if these idiots still don't understand the DTV conversion after all this hype, then fuck em.

Well said!:D

Yes, let's get on with this on schedule or just drop the whole thing. The fact is that some people just are not going to get it unless they get a good kick in the butt, as in turning on their TVs on 6/13 just to be greeted with snow.

Three of mine will be quitting..
The taxpayers pay for PBS and it won't come in. There you have it.

It applies to those elected who gave us this, whoever they are.
Gee, AM stereo..just what I need to listen to news.

All we have left is the ABC affiliate and an LP Christian station. I'm sure the low power station will remain since they are not required to switch.

Just for the record, the digital PBS signal is harder to receive than the former analog signal. I guess it's a good thing I don't watch PBS much; but, there are others that do. The only thing I watch on a regular basis is RTN and the 6 PM local news.

Radiotvnut is right, DTV signals are much easier to screw up I live within 15 miles of 5 broadcast towers and get analog signals just fine but when a bus pulls up out front or a big truck passes my DTV signal drops to 0%. I normally average 65% to 85% signal strength with one of those big 2' x 3' home made antennas but each day the signal direction changes, sometimes the antenna points 90 degrees to the direction of the broadcasting antenna!

I agree - I like seeing the radar. I looked into battery-operated DTV sets and I'm not about to spend that much money for some Chinese crap that won't work when I take it out of the closet next hurricane season.

What I may look into is pulling the guts out of a DTV converter box and stuffing them inside a smaller screen TV, if space permits. I'd like to do something like that to my 3.5" 30+ year old Panasonic (the current "emergency" TV); but, I don't think that would work. A 12" set would be the only thing I might could do that to.

Another channel that's virtually a "no go" now is channel 34 (CW) out of, IIRC, Magee, MS. When they were analog, I could get them on most any given TV at any given time of day with an indoor antenna. The quality was never good; but, watchable. With the digital signal, all I usually get is "weak signal" on that channel while the signal meter hovers around 10-15 %. One time, I held the antenna up in the air and got the signal up to around 25%, enough to give me a severly pixilated image. An outdoor antenna may or may not help the situation.

Of course, this is not a big deal right now since I have cable. May not have it for very long if Comcast does not get their act together concerning the internet. I've fired them once and am not above doing it again. Once I hooked my Sister and Brother-in-law up to a DTV box and he saw that he could get 7-8 clear channels, he said he'd never go back to pay TV again.

I would rather have LTE mobile data then old reruns on analog tv any day.

Here in NZ our analog switchoff isnt till at least 2012, 2015 at the latest (when 75% of homes are not watching analog they will set the date - its about 70% at the moment depending on who you believe)

But I find it hard to believe that the digital is harder to recieve then analog - at a friends place with a mountain in the way to the transmitter and a corroded UHF antenna thats done nothing for the last 8 years, and dodgey RG59 cables from the $2 shop, it gets one of the mux's perfectly - and thats an antenna system that just delivers tinted snow on any of the analog channels. Either you have way low power digital transmissions or ATSC just really really sucks compared to DVB-T.

Us who watch PBS are smart enough and motivated enough to have adapted already!

Note that most PBS stations have already switched early - Flint, Detroit, Toledo and Bowling Green, around here, for example.

You have COFDM for the RF modulation method, we in the USA have 8VSB. COFDM is more forgiving of ghosting and such, but needs higher power for the same coverage area. COFDM also tends to have dynamic range issues as well (it has 2000 carriers being switched on and off, and sometimes all turn on, overloading the station's broadcast transmitter amplifier, or TV set front ends). 8VSB doesn't like ghosts.

The Funny Cookie Corporation has just allowed an enhancement to ATSC for mobile receivers (cell phones and such), that may solve the portable receiver not working during a tornado problem.

They've only just started running ads about the analog switch off here which is coming sometime in 2010 for some areas and as late as 2013 in others.

I've thought about building an digital set top box into some of my portable sets. I found one that is small enough that I should be able to get it inside one of my 5" sets and another that should fit in one of my 10" sets. The thing that is holding my back is that I've yet to think of an acceptable way to connect the sets existing channel buttons to the set top box. I think I'll have to use a microcontroller to scan the buttons on the set and send the appropriate commands to the set top box. Ideally I'd like to disable the set top box's on screen display, but I don't think that will be possible.

The set top boxes I've set aside for this project are powered by an external 12V power supply, so that will simplifiy things and allow the finished sets to run from 12VDC as the originally did. It's somewhat academic though reliable digital reception is not possible here with rabbit ears.

Fortunately for Canadians, they're not switching to DTV until 2011. If any Americans live along the border and can pick up Canadian TV stations...
first, if you get CBC then I'm so sorry lol
Second, at least you can pick up analogue TV for a little while longer.

Hiya wilkes, how are ya?

Don't care for CBC? LOL.

The FCC should solve the tornado problem before turning off analog. About 10 years ago, 30 people were killed 50 miles north of here by and F5 tornado. Those were the ones that were above ground. Many were saved by being in an underground shelter. As it happened near dusk, some indication of bad weather could have been seen without any TV warnings, so I am not sure what the reason for the 30 people being above ground.

Just imagine how many more would have been killed if this had happened in later in the evening and the TV warnings crapped out. (I also think the weather radio system should be improved so that only true warnings(not warnings and watches) could be selected. This could vastly improve overnight weather radio usage.)

The FCC cannot "solve the tornado problem" anywhere in this country. Weather events are natural phenomena, out of the hands of people here on earth. If a tornado touches down anywhere, there won't be a thing the FCC can do to stop it. Moreover, the FCC has decided to shut down analog TV on June 12, notwithstanding the problems this may cause in emergencies such as hurricanes, tornadoes, etc. This time the analog shutoff date is all but set in stone and will not be pushed back again, problems or no problems with emergency information. As I have said before in at least one post, there will always be the Emergency Alert System on radio to disseminate emergency information if TV stations are knocked off the air or power outages occur, preventing ordinary TVs from operating.

The end of analog TV is not the end of emergency communications. Moreover, many amateur radio operators are members of emergency networks such as Skywarn, RACES (the latter being a acronym for Radio Amateur Civil Emergency Service) and other disaster networks, the purposes of which are to provide communications services in the event of an emergency. Radio amateurs have been instrumental in providing emergency communications links during every hurricane that has struck the U.S. in recent years--one example is during Hurricane Andrew in the Miami area seventeen years ago, another is during Hurricane Katrina along the Gulf Coast in 2005, and there are other examples too numerous to mention.

My point is that television is not the American public's only link to the outside world during emergencies. When (not if) the FCC declares the end of analog TV in just under one month, there will always be radio, its shortcomings notwithstanding. Even without being able to see radar scans over radio, some emergency information is better than none at all.

Another person mentioned a few posts ago that free AM and FM radio will end in this country shortly after the end of analog television. I don't believe that will happen any time soon. Many AM stations are going silent and transferring their programming to FM stations, so we can expect FM radio to continue in this country for some time; however, it is entirely possible that AM radio may disappear eventually. When and if it does fade into oblivion I don't think it will be much of a loss, as all that's on AM in most cities is talk radio and sports--and much of that programming is migrating to FM in some areas these days. Many FM stations now have digital subchannels, but their main signals are still on the air and will be for the foreseeable future. There are too many analog FM receivers and tuners (millions) in the United States--car stereos, portables, home systems--for analog FM to disappear now as analog TV will shortly. While it is true that more and more people are listening to Internet radio, satellite radio and mp3s these days rather than to FM broadcasts, there are still enough listeners to the nation's FM stations to keep them on the air.

Note that there are far more AM stations going silent than FMs; the reason is that few people (except talk-radio fans and sports junkies) listen to AM anymore, with more listeners (especially to serious music) preferring FM. (As an example, New York's WQXR, a classical station, now broadcasts over FM exclusively; its former AM arm is now Radio Disney WQEW-AM 1560.) As I said, many AM talk stations have moved their programming to FM or else are simulcasting their programming over the FM station (a sports station in Detroit, for example, WXYT 1270, has done just that, simulcasting all its material over the former WWJ-FM, now WXYT-FM 97.1). A hard-rock FM station in Cleveland has all but abandoned music programming (in large part) as well, now carrying mostly talk.

What may become of the 107 channels of the AM broadcast band in the future is anyone's guess. The stations already in operation there, except perhaps for all-news stations the likes of WCBS-AM in New York, et al. may or may not be around for much longer. I must question the decision of some cities to have two sports stations, as do Chicago (WSCR-670, formerly WMAQ-AM, and WMVP-1000, formerly WCFL) and even Cleveland (WKNR-850, 50kW day/4.7kW night, and WWGK-AM 1540, 1kW day only). Both stations carry roughly the same programming, so why have it on both at the same time? The situation in Cleveland makes even less sense, to me anyway. WWGK 1540 is a 1kW station that covers mainly the city of Cleveland and perhaps a couple of nearby suburbs; WKNR, with its 50kW daytime signal, covers much of Ohio (including Cleveland and environs, of course) from dusk to dawn, has excellent coverage in the greater Cleveland area at night as well, and is an affiliate of the ESPN radio network. WWGK 1540 is an affiliate, IIRC, of Fox's sports radio network. Because of these widely varying coverage areas (and the fact that WWGK is daytime only), I question how both of these stations can survive. While there may be no doubt WKNR will be around a long time, with its 50kW daytime signal, the other station may be doomed to failure because of its low power and being daytime only. I sometimes wonder why WWGK has not gone silent already. :scratch2:

I do not expect the FCC to "solve" any tornado problem. What I do expect them to do is to act in the public's interest as the airwaves are public property. I, for one, do not think shuting off analog TV in areas that are known to experience severe weather regularly is in the public interest. It is well known (and has been expressed by many here and elsewhere) that DTV as presently implemented in the US is very much less reliable than NTSC analog in severe weather conditions.

In spite of all of the other ways that have been mentioned as to spread emergency information-TV is the main one used by the public at this time. In addition, there are many NTSC analog TVs that run on battery power-I have not yet seen any DTV sets with this feature. If a battery operated TV is available-receiver power is not an issue.

Because of this change-much of which I preceive to be driven by greed, not the interest of the public, I fear that unnecessary injuries and possibly deaths will occur.

One final comment-I agree that FM radio will not go silent.

This conversion process is such a mixed bag of "stuff".

I love the amazing picture on my 27" Mitsubishi CRT.

I love the digital sound - really - it is so much better that cable. Frighteningly good.

I love the extra stations I now get - especially the PBS ones.

I love that a dollar store pair of rabbit ears indoors picks up 90% of the stations. I have an A-B switch to use the roof antenna if need be (hello ABC? are you ONLY ones broadcasting your digital signal over VHF in LA?)

I hate that my neighbor upstairs can ruin an episode of Family Guy simply by walking around too much. And don't get me started about the wind, helicopters, and low flying planes screwing with my picture.......and channel 13 is STILL nowhere to be found......no big loss there.

ok, I feel better now. I need a record.......

Rob

Knew that that deregulation in the 1980's was a bad idea... :D And they need to do something about trailer parks, as they are tornado magnets... :D

Anyway, as someone mentioned the idea of planting a converter box inside an existing TV set, I've done that with a set that used to be a TV/VCR combo unit. The VCR part died, but the CRT portion worked well, so I installed the converter box where the VCR mechanism was. But this example is not portable or battery powered.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/att...5&d=1228009286

Create your own analog TV station
 

I have four converter boxes and I have a lot of TV’s scattered all over my display room. So to connect them I would have to have a lot of cable, splitters and possibly a distribution amplifier. The alternative would be to move the converter to the television set I want to play. I have a simple solution that will cost you about $30 and all you will need is rabbit ears at the sets you want to play often.
Searching the internet on Google I found an antenna mounted amplifier that produces 30db gain made by Antennacraft. Searching again, I found a retailer Reliant Electronics and purchased the unit. Upon receipt, I connected the output
of the GE converter box to the antenna connection of the amplifier. Then using the diagram, I connected the output of the amplifier to a piece of copper wire vertically oriented. I turned on my RCA 621 set to channel 4 and using a pair of
rabbit ears picked up the signal being transmitted by the amplifier. Amazingly the
signal provided an excellent picture and sound from approximately 10 feet away.
I am going to make a permanent installation in the center of the area where my sets are displayed. Don’t think you will have an FCC problem with this low power. Try it, you might like it.

Well, I wish to register a complaint...About a week & a half ago here, we had a Tornado come thru. Or at least a funnel cloud. Depends on who you talk to. Some folks say they saw a funnel cloud, I didn't. Anyhow, the local radio stations, WRGS 1370 KC, & the FM station, they've changed their call letters again for the umpteenth time, I can't remember, I think they're WEYE, 104.3 Mc, both of them are "fully automated", & consequently, we got NOTHING as far as updates on the tornado-just the usual canned, "Blah-blah-blah" reports at the regular newstimes. Other than that, they kept pumpin' out the inane Kuntry-Lovin' hits...Kinda wish the tornado had come by & blown them away, for all the good they did..."Public Service", my ass... Next year-or even after June, if we get another tornado, we could be blown away, & if the lights get knocked out-as they usually are-how would we know if one's coming ? I still say this is about the most stupid jerkoff trick the boneheads in Warshington have ever dreamed up... An' they're masters at coming up w/jerkoff tricks...

I have heard that (around here anyway) that the transition will not apply to "low-power" stations. I am thinking that this is "independent" stations as they have not switched yet.

So there might be hope to have a few analog stations for a little while longer!

I have been watching digital for a year now and I am generally impressed.
A few stations here have already turned off the analog.

:beerchug:

Sandy, I did not realize how utterly useless radio is for weather warnings until I read your post. With so many stations being automated these days (there is one such station in the next town south of here, and maybe--even likely--many more in Cleveland) the chances of getting local weather information and/or warnings are slim to none--they don't ordinarily break into the automated programming for much of anything. There is a 0.5kW local station near where I grew up that changed from oldies to a fully-automated talk format about five years ago or so; I don't hear it where I live now (Fairport Harbor, Ohio, a village 33 miles east of Cleveland that isn't considered a suburb), so don't know what's going on anymore with it or its programming. But I'd think they are as bad as most other automated stations, never (well, hardly ever) breaking into the satellite programming. Heaven help them (not to mention the residents of the area) if a tornado strikes the city where they are located (Willoughby, Ohio, an eastern suburb of Cleveland); the storm might well quite literally blow them off the air, and the public would have little or no advance warning of the event.

BTW, I just looked up (on www.Radio-Locator.com) the information for the local AM/FM radio stations in your area. You were right. The local FM in Surgoinsville, Tennessee is in fact WEYE-FM, while the local AM station in Rogersville is still WRGS. I didn't realize both those stations are automated. I think your best bet will be to hope that the digital TV stations serving your area are receivable well enough to get the info you will need in an emergency situation, although given the all-or-nothing nature of DTV this could be and probably will be hit-or-miss at best--hardly acceptable in an emergency. The next tornado may well knock the local radio stations off the air; at least if you have power and access to your TV (and your cable or antenna haven't been disabled or blown down, respectively) you will get EAS (Emergency Alert System) info. If the storm knocks out your electric service, unfortunately you will be out of luck as far as TV is concerned, and radio will, again, be worthless as many of the local stations will be off the air if the tornado blows down their towers.

The FCC obviously did not do their homework when they decided to shut down analog TV on June 12 this year. This, which is not in the public interest by any means, will leave many, many people literally "in the dark" as far as emergency information goes if a tornado or other natural disaster disrupts electric power or disables the area's television stations. I agree with others here who have said it would have been an excellent idea if the FCC had put a clause in the DTV-shutdown rules that would allow one analog NTSC TV station in each major market to stay on the air to allow for emergency information if needed. The FCC's "nightlight" service provisions were supposed to have addressed this issue, but unfortunately many cities did not take advantage of them, which is why most of the U.S. is in such a mess today as far as TV in emergencies goes. The whole country probably would have been better off had the FCC kept its hands off the present NTSC analog television system, which has served this country well for nearly sixty years. At least with NTSC analog, stations can be received (albeit with snowy pictures and/or noisy sound) when the signals are extremely weak; with DTV, you either have a signal or you don't, which again is totally unacceptable in any emergency situation--in a severe rainstorm, flood condition or tornado, the signal will be unpredictable, leaving viewers either with no reception whatsoever or with an unusable picture and no sound.

Sheeeesh! The FCC really blew it this time.

Well, in all honesty, we're in sort of a "Here there be Tygers" area, anyway, when it comes to news/weather coverage...The Knoxville stations tend to cover only their metro area, which doesn't include us, unless its something REALLY bad, pretty much the same story w/the Kingsport/Johnson City/Bristol stations.

Some folks are not going to bother with the converter boxes. Viewership will decline somewhat with ad revenue to follow. Screw em'. You'll see. My my 85 year old mom cannot get Antiques Road Show anymore. The Comcast guy told me it is a ROYAL PITA. It is.

Sounds like your mother is still using an NTSC analog TV connected directly to an antenna, without a converter box, and the PBS station in her area is now 100-percent digital. Is she aware that all TV will be digital by 06.12, and that her TV will no longer work after midnight (or sooner) on that date unless it is connected to cable or a converter box? If she has cable, however, she should still get Antiques Roadshow on PBS. Even if the local PBS station is transmitting exclusively digital signals, the cable operator will see to it that the station (and all others on the system) are downconverted to NTSC so that analog sets can receive the signals.

All cable television systems in the U.S., including Comcast, are required by law to carry every broadcast channel in every market they serve. If the system in your mother's area is not carrying PBS, it is in violation of that law.

Whether or not the Digital OTA system is flawed, I am not sure yet. Since I am local to NYC's many transmitters, reception hasn't been too much of an issue (yet)

But as far as safety is concerned, why not leave one analog VHF or UHF station live in each market? Seems like a plausible prevention scheme, "just in case..."

It would be silly to leave one station on in each market in analog. Who would pick the station and who would pay the cost to keep the transmitter on the air? A lot of stations ran their old transmitters down to the last mile so many of then don't have many trouble free hours left so who would pay to replace these transmitters? The way things are today in ad sales the stations don't have the cash. In some markets like LA if something bad happens we have AM radio KNX and KFI both 50000 watt flame throwers and much better news departments then most of the television stations. KFI makes more money then most FM stations so AM is not dead yet.

There are two issues with using radio for emergency issues at present(at least in tornado alley).

1. At present, commercial radio (AM or FM) does not cover severe wether at all. Other than TV, the only weather coverage is on the flawed weather radio systems.

2. There is no way radio can replace the modern severe weather coverage (doppler radar, etc) available on TV. A picture is truly worth 1000 words.

As peoples lives are at stake, I think money can be found. As to the transmitters, new ones can be built-all it takes is money.

In fact, as the coverage area is less for DTV than NTSC(less people see the commercials with DTV), I would bet that some stations would love to remain analog if given the chance(In addition they could advertise-and it would be correct-that their weather coverage is more reliable than others).

The main two things that need to happen is a change in the stupid law(let the marketplace decide) and some money returned to Verizon, etc. I do not believe that any one needs to "choose" a station-they would choose themselves.

Yes new Transmitters could be built all it takes is money. And more $ to pay the electric bill. The possible extra $ from commercials with a few added viewers won't even come close to cover the costs. One possible solution might be to have some stations that are able to keep their antenna and transmitter operational licensed for emergency use during storms etc.. The government could possibly pay them to keep the transmitter operational. The costs would be low for a few years due to the low amount of hours the plant would be operated. After five years the situation could be reevaluated and if there was a true need for analog then the decision would be made how to operate going forward.

As much as I like analog and hate to see it go most viewers use either dish/satellite or cable.

BTW when earthquakes hit out here it’s television that is behind some of the radio stations except for the comedy of seeing the anchors hiding under the desk. But fire coverage can come in handy so I can see your point about being able to see what’s going on. But I can’t see the need to keep an analog station on the air for that because there is no storm caused interference and digital should be good to go.

With earthquakes and such, I do not think the type of TV matters. At present, no pre-warnings are possible.

However with severe storms that are changing by the minute, up to date information is critical.

I have experienced both DTV and Satellite during storms. Both freeze up and lose sound-no good at all. In fact, during one episode DTV froze up for 10 minutes while analog NTSC continued on snowy, but useable.

To leave a high power transmitter for long periods as an emergency measure is difficult for many reasons. These beasts don't like to sit dormant without being run on a regular basis, which means maintenance and operational costs, plus, the channel assigned to such a transmitter would have to be kept free, which is nearly impossible in most markets. In a nutshell, it wouldn't be practical.

Since they've announced the ability to tailor the dtv signal for portable devices, it should be a moot point anyway.